Huge night time spike

Miss90 · Nov 26, 2017

Hi all,

Can anyone shed some light!? Very recently (last couple of months) I've been having huge night time spikes if I eat any sort of carbohydrate around 2-4 hours before bed. I carb count so I eat carbs in my diet. This has never been an issue for me, but it's driving me insane now and I can't figure out why this is happening.

For example - my BS before bed could be something like 6.5. Ill then wake in the night to a BS of 12 or 13, give myself 3 units of quick acting and then wake up an hour or so later with a BS of 18. This same thing happens every single time and I can't understand why, especially if I'm giving a correction dose.

I've attached a photo to show you what I mean.

In the photo you can see my current BS. At about 2am I have a correction but still it rises and it does this every time!!!!!!

Thanks all

Tao · Nov 26, 2017

same problem here last night, around 10pm i had less than half an apple and had this huge spike for the first time, except i did not have a correction but still drive me insane.

urbanracer · Nov 26, 2017

Miss90 said:
Hi all,

Can anyone shed some light!? Very recently (last couple of months) I've been having huge night time spikes if I eat any sort of carbohydrate around 2-4 hours before bed. I carb count so I eat carbs in my diet. This has never been an issue for me, but it's driving me insane now and I can't figure out why this is happening.

For example - my BS before bed could be something like 6.5. Ill then wake in the night to a BS of 12 or 13, give myself 3 units of quick acting and then wake up an hour or so later with a BS of 18. This same thing happens every single time and I can't understand why, especially if I'm giving a correction dose.

I've attached a photo to show you what I mean.

In the photo you can see my current BS. At about 2am I have a correction but still it rises and it does this every time!!!!!!

Thanks all

Have you checked your Libre against a finger prick test. My sensor is a couple of mmol out - not that it would make a massive difference to your results.

Did you eat at around 23:00 and is that normal for you? What did you eat?

The second rise at 05:00 could be a result of dawn phenomenon. Do you usually see a rise around this time, even if it's from a lower starting point?

becca59 · Nov 26, 2017

If you don’t normally have these problems perhaps your basal needs adjusting. You did also drop very quickly before it began rising. Suggesting food/bolus wasn’t quite right. Try no food from 3pm onwards and see what happens. Most days I eat one meal around this time, then nothing til breakfast. I always remain so much more balanced than if I eat and inject later. It would help you assess your basal.

Miss90 · Nov 26, 2017

urbanracer said:
Have you checked your Libre against a finger prick test. My sensor is a couple of mmol out - not that it would make a massive difference to your results.

Did you eat at around 23:00 and is that normal for you? What did you eat?

The second rise at 05:00 could be a result of dawn phenomenon. Do you usually see a rise around this time, even if it's from a lower starting point?

I have a finger prick meter I use sometimes too but I feel high when I am this high - just find it odd that EVERY SINGLE TIME a correction dose doesn't help!!

The 5am rise doesn't happen usually with me, I tend to have a rise once I'm actually physically out of bed.

Bloody diabetes eh!?

mytype1.life · Nov 26, 2017

This is a frustrating one! Has been happening to me too and just before I decide to make a change it falls back into range/drop!

For whatever reason (hormones/weather etc.) if it's a trend I'd suggest making a change to your basal rate 2 hours before you start to see the spike.

What type of thing are you eating as your evening meal and what time do you eat?

Miss90 · Nov 26, 2017

becca59 said:
If you don’t normally have these problems perhaps your basal needs adjusting. You did also drop very quickly before it began rising. Suggesting food/bolus wasn’t quite right. Try no food from 3pm onwards and see what happens. Most days I eat one meal around this time, then nothing til breakfast. I always remain so much more balanced than if I eat and inject later. It would help you assess your basal.

My basal is alright, I adjust it very slightly each day depending on whether I'm at work or not because I'm more prone to hypo at work.

Can't really eat nothing from 3pm onwards as my shift patterns mean I work until 11pm so I'll be starving hungry lol!

I'll just have to try and experiment with different carb amounts as this only happens when I eat carbs, and is a very recent thing

Miss90 · Nov 26, 2017

I've just had a brainwave - I've recently switched from novorapid to fiasp. Could that be causing it?!

donnellysdogs · Nov 26, 2017

To me your drop and that correction is too quick and may due to its speed be getting your body into rebound mode.....the first example shows that you went hypo.... if you didnt treat that, then its rebound with your liver kicking in..

To basal test for evening/night and I would suggest you do this.. no food after 3pm.... and do for a couple nights..

My basals always change after clocks go forward/back.

catapillar · Nov 26, 2017

Miss90 said:
I've just had a brainwave - I've recently switched from novorapid to fiasp. Could that be causing it?!

I understand there can be a I:c ratio change with fiasp. @tim2000s might be able to offer some info on this.

Freema · Nov 26, 2017

Miss90 said:
Hi all,

Can anyone shed some light!? Very recently (last couple of months) I've been having huge night time spikes if I eat any sort of carbohydrate around 2-4 hours before bed. I carb count so I eat carbs in my diet. This has never been an issue for me, but it's driving me insane now and I can't figure out why this is happening.

For example - my BS before bed could be something like 6.5. Ill then wake in the night to a BS of 12 or 13, give myself 3 units of quick acting and then wake up an hour or so later with a BS of 18. This same thing happens every single time and I can't understand why, especially if I'm giving a correction dose.

I've attached a photo to show you what I mean.

In the photo you can see my current BS. At about 2am I have a correction but still it rises and it does this every time!!!!!!

Thanks all

Maybe in your case your insulin resistance is worse late in the your day

scotteric · Nov 26, 2017

Miss90 said:
I've just had a brainwave - I've recently switched from novorapid to fiasp. Could that be causing it?!

It could be! I tried Fiasp for a while but went back to NovoRapid, the main reason being it didn't seem to last long enough to cover the protein or digestion of most meals I eat and I would end up with spikes a couple hours or more later. It is supposed to last as long as NovoRapid, but I think the problem is it peaks very early and quickly, not leaving a lot of effective insulin following the peak to deal with carbs that strike a bit later.

Miss90 · Nov 26, 2017

Thanks for the input all, going to try going back to novorapid and see if that has an effect

cassie091 · Nov 30, 2017

Miss90 said:
Hi all,

Can anyone shed some light!? Very recently (last couple of months) I've been having huge night time spikes if I eat any sort of carbohydrate around 2-4 hours before bed. I carb count so I eat carbs in my diet. This has never been an issue for me, but it's driving me insane now and I can't figure out why this is happening.

For example - my BS before bed could be something like 6.5. Ill then wake in the night to a BS of 12 or 13, give myself 3 units of quick acting and then wake up an hour or so later with a BS of 18. This same thing happens every single time and I can't understand why, especially if I'm giving a correction dose.

I've attached a photo to show you what I mean.

In the photo you can see my current BS. At about 2am I have a correction but still it rises and it does this every time!!!!!!

Thanks all

cassie091 · Nov 30, 2017

From the graph your blood sugars dropped dramatically in the early hours. You became hypoglycaemic. When that happens your liver pours out sugar into your bloodstream, hence the spike. It has happened to me and I was told to reduce my long acting insulin. Levimir in my case.

Guzelino · Nov 30, 2017

I had the same... by shifting the injection time of my long-acting insulin (from 22:30 to 19:30) and carefully planning my dinner / before bed snack, I was able to completely eradicate hypos during night (which caused hypers in the morning) and achieved a somewhat steady glycose while sleeping.
the main thing (for me) was going to bed sometime around 23:30-00:00 and waking up around 7.30-8.00 in the morning to avoid the dawn effect and to "catch" the glycose before going too high after awakening (by administering fast-acting insulin and having breakfast in no late thsn 20 mins after getting up)
hope this helps...
p.s. my hypo is always followed by a hyper... I call it tripple-damage effect, because: 1. you have to eat/ drink sugar to treat the hypo ; 2. 90% of the time you overdo it and 3. the liver/pancreas produces glucagon which in turn metabolizes glycose and delivers it straight to the bloodstream... by the time you measure the BG again, it's gone from 2 mmol/l up to 16/24 mmol/l...
that's why it is essential to avoid hypos at any cost. better to be steady 6 (or 8 mmol/l) than to have ups and downs

sten.bjorsell · Nov 30, 2017

Miss90 said:
My basal is alright, I adjust it very slightly each day depending on whether I'm at work or not because I'm more prone to hypo at work.

Can't really eat nothing from 3pm onwards as my shift patterns mean I work until 11pm so I'll be starving hungry lol!

I'll just have to try and experiment with different carb amounts as this only happens when I eat carbs, and is a very recent thing

Agree. Atleast nothing after 7 pm, only water. Too many meals causes fluctuatining insulin
Also, add more fat like butter or real olive oil to meals to avoid hunger pangs

sten.bjorsell · Nov 30, 2017

sten.bjorsell said:
Agree. Atleast nothing after 7 pm, only water. Too many meals causes fluctuatining insulin
Also, add more fat like butter or real olive oil to meals to avoid hunger pangs

To clarify, I had severe angina and poor fasting BG, 6.5. Gone with LCHF now for 6 years at Xmas! Prediabetic then. FBG is now 5.4.

LH25LH · Nov 30, 2017

Hi,
My 10 year old son spikes like that if he eats pasta or rice for tea (tea time normally 6pm ish). We try and make adjustments to his basal settings (sobits acts like a bolus) on his pump which attempt to eradicate spike at about 1am. Lots of careful trial and error. Err on the side of caution.

Janine p · Nov 30, 2017

Miss90 said:
Hi all,

Can anyone shed some light!? Very recently (last couple of months) I've been having huge night time spikes if I eat any sort of carbohydrate around 2-4 hours before bed. I carb count so I eat carbs in my diet. This has never been an issue for me, but it's driving me insane now and I can't figure out why this is happening.

For example - my BS before bed could be something like 6.5. Ill then wake in the night to a BS of 12 or 13, give myself 3 units of quick acting and then wake up an hour or so later with a BS of 18. This same thing happens every single time and I can't understand why, especially if I'm giving a correction dose.

I've attached a photo to show you what I mean.

In the photo you can see my current BS. At about 2am I have a correction but still it rises and it does this every time!!!!!!

Thanks all

Omg

sten.bjorsell said:
Agree. Atleast nothing after 7 pm, only water. Too many meals causes fluctuatining insulin
Also, add more fat like butter or real olive oil to meals to avoid hunger pangs

Huge night time spike

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