I Did Not Cause My Condition

NicoleC1971 · Nov 26, 2018

kokhongw said:
The global medical/healthcare community has a lot to shoulder for their persistent refusal to acknowledge that chronic excessive insulin is a key driver of T2D. Their decades of warning/ridicule/dismissal of effective strategies that lowers insulin greatly contributed to the current obesity/T2D burden.

Totally agree that the medical establishment prefers to believe that glucotoxicity trumps insulin toxicity, doubtless influenced by the drug makers who sell medications that reduce blood sugars without either curing the root cause (hyperinsulieamia) or even reducing complications (the exception being the sglt2 inhibitors).
It is a shame for type 2s that insulin was discovered because it detracted from the dietary solutions that provide such an obvious and cheap way of reversing out of metabolic syndrome.

lucylocket61 · Nov 26, 2018

NicoleC1971 said:
It is a shame for type 2s that insulin was discovered because it detracted from the dietary solutions that provide such an obvious and cheap way of reversing out of metabolic syndrome.

However, not all type 2's are able to control their diabetes by diet for long, and it also depends on the cause of their type 2, so insulin is an important treatment to have available.

Also, reversal of metabolic syndrome is not always possible, or not possible long term either. Its complex. I am glad the we have access to insulin if and when it is needed.

I believe the 'wonder cure' of diet being the be all and end all of resolution for type 2 is over hyped, and can do more harm than good longterm for those who have had type 2 for a long time, or for whom it works for a while, but their diabetes progresses and are seen as failure (not by you but by many) when they need medication to control their condition.

Fenn · Nov 26, 2018

lucylocket61 said:
However, not all type 2's are able to control their diabetes by diet for long, and it also depends on the cause of their type 2, so insulin is an important treatment to have available.

Also, reversal of metabolic syndrome is not always possible, or not possible long term either. Its complex. I am glad the we have access to insulin if and when it is needed.

I believe the 'wonder cure' of diet being the be all and end all of resolution for type 2 is over hyped, and can do more harm than good longterm for those who have had type 2 for a long time, or for whom it works for a while, but their diabetes progresses and are seen as failure (not by you but by many) when they need medication to control their condition.

I feel like a failure because im taking insulin, but im pretty rubbish at everything else so may as well be rubbish at this too lol

lucylocket61 · Nov 26, 2018

Fenn said:
I feel like a failure because im taking insulin, but im pretty rubbish at everything else so may as well be rubbish at this too lol

You are 100% NOT a failure. You are a person dealing with the way your body has stopped working properly, the best way you can. Thats why i put that post up. We are all doing the best we can.

HSSS · Nov 26, 2018

Facebook just popped up a post from this site, talking about the kids diagnosed with type 2 report that’s been everywhere this week. The photo they used was some feet stepping on the scales. So there’s a nice “link” between type 2 and weight furthering the weight causes t2 rather than t2 cause weight argument imo!

ickihun · Nov 26, 2018

lucylocket61 said:
I didnt not cause my type 2 diabetes.

I did not eat or lazy my way to type 2 diabetes through any fault of my own. It is not my fault my body cant process carbs correctly.

I can say this 100% because:

My risk of becoming diabetic was unknown. And for many people, their risk of becoming diabetic is also unknown. There are no tests yet to show risk before it starts.

I am in the position of one who who smoked before the link to smoking and cancers etc was known. The medical profession encouraged smoking. Those who were worried were dismissed as talking nonsense.

If eating carbs causes diabetes then everyone would become diabetic. This does not happen.

Type 2 diabetics have faulty insulin responses. Unbeknownst to them, their body is struggling for years with no symptoms or tests which can pick it up. So how can they be to blame?

It is not the ingestion of carbs themselves in the general public which is the issue, its the response of the bodies of those who have impaired insulin function or reaction which is the problem.

Its time for people to stop blaming themselves when they had no knowledge, or way of knowing what their body would do.

Most people can stuff themselves full of carbs every day and not become diabetic. Lets stop blaming the ones who have a faulty response to those carbs. We dont blame those who are gluten or lactose intolerant for having eaten foods containing milk or wheat and say they should have avoided them just in case they had an issue with it in the future.

The lack of logic and reason among people is astonishing.

Hi @lucylocket61 I'm hoping your feeling more confident with your diabetes tonight. I remember seeing the psychologist for assessment for my op last year and how she enlightened me in a few aspects of my decision making and conditioning from childhood.
It is fascinating science.
We are all subject to another man's slot in which we perceive to fit into.
The type2 box is a pandora's box.

What's important is how you perceive your health and that you know for sure what heals it. Or at least a theory.

Ive seen how your posts have developed over time, as I guess you with mine.
Opinions from reliable members which have made huge sense.

Discovery is the best part of being a type2. I've learned so much for members here.
I'm delighted to say my hospital does 800cals diet and low carb diets. But you can lead a horse to water but not to drink.

As long as you know what's what. That's what is important.
I respect your opinions. I listen to your disccoveries. I'm very interested.

I too didn't cause my diabetes but now I know I do WHATEVER it need to do my upmost. One day it would be totally fine.
(going Cross eyed typing this.)

Angelofthemarches · Nov 27, 2018

carol43 said:
My paternal grandmother had T2 very late in life, two of my brothers and a sister have T2, we have all developed it our 60s.

My dad did too.

Angelofthemarches · Nov 27, 2018

lucylocket61 said:
I think it is random, in the sense that it isnt cause and effect, and we dont know who is at risk, or why it happens. Maybe I have misunderstood the word 'random'

My father had type 2 and was 6 feet tall and weighed 147 lbs. He played a full round of golf at least 4 times a week. I do not understand how he could have avoided his condition.

Deleted member 371625 · Nov 27, 2018

Angelofthemarches said:
My father had type 2 and was 6 feet tall and weighed 147 lbs. He played a full round of golf at least 4 times a week. I do not understand how he could have avoided his condition.

Being fit and healthy reduces your chances, just as the reverse increases them.
For example, 100lb overweight / no exercise might result in a 50% chance of T2 (depending on genetics).
Good weight / adequate exercise might result in a 5% chance (again, depending on genetics).

So whilst some people with unhealthy lifestyles may remain T2 free, some who do the 'right' thing may still end up with T2.
However, being overweight and no exercising does increase your chances substantially. It sounds as though your father couldn't have avoided this, as you said. If this was due to genetic factors, it may be that you were stuck with the same genetic issues.

It isn't just T2 though that becomes much more likely with a poor lifestyle, also heart disease and cancer as well as many others. These would have different genetic markers so a healthy lifestyle would still be beneficial.

lucylocket61 · Nov 27, 2018

midnightrider said:
However, being overweight and no exercising does increase your chances substantially.

only if you have a faulty insulin response. Otherwise, no it doesnt increase your chances of becoming a type 2 diabetic.

HSSS · Nov 27, 2018

lucylocket61 said:
only if you have a faulty insulin response. Otherwise, no it doesnt increase your chances of becoming a type 2 diabetic.

So are you saying if you’re unlucky enough to have a faulty insulin response then being a healthy weight and active doesn’t improve your odds of not progressing into diabetes? Surely it must, by the same mechanism it improves it once diagnosed.

I completely agree we can’t control all our factors and IR will make it harder to lose weight. And just what is truely healthy is up for debate in the wider health community so who should we listen to?

But a diet full of junk, processed foods, being vastly overweight and not making any effort to change that by any means at all and choosing not to move much isn’t going to help anyone in any health stakes. that is the choice some knowingly make.

And some don’t know better or can’t do better despite best efforts for a whole host of reasons

So no we shouldn’t judge or blame because no one asks for or deserves diabetes but there really are many people out there who don’t try and aren’t in any way proactive (probably not many in here because we made the effort to be in here). It’s hard when it’s assumed you are one of those head in the sand types if you aren’t. it’s also hard to admit having been one.

I always assumed I could get away with a massively less than perfect lifestyle and it wouldn’t happen to me but it did. I didn’t cause it but I certainly didn’t do enough to avoid it or mitigate my risks. I may not have known diabetes was coming my way but odds were I was inviting the devil through the door in some way by my choices.

lucylocket61 · Nov 27, 2018

HSSS said:
So are you saying if you’re unlucky enough to have a faulty insulin response then being a healthy weight and active doesn’t improve your odds of not progressing into diabetes? Surely it must, by the same mechanism it improves it once diagnosed.

Yes.

Look at all the slim active type 2's we have on here who are recently diagnosed. Only changing our diets by low carbing postpones and often halts progressive, for an unknown number of years. If we go back to medium to high carbs, our blood sugars rise again.

Its not obesity of itself, its not exercise or lack of it of itself, its our body not being able to process carbs.

I have not been talking about progression on this thread, my first post is about being diabetic, being diagnosed as diabetic, and being blamed for that diagnosis.

ickihun · Nov 27, 2018

Angelofthemarches said:
My father had type 2 and was 6 feet tall and weighed 147 lbs. He played a full round of golf at least 4 times a week. I do not understand how he could have avoided his condition.

Like me. How does a very active 6yr old, get it?
I just feel lucky I have always been happy and able to keep extra fit... until recently.

ickihun · Nov 27, 2018

Just remember unfit, junk eating people still live a long life. If their genes allow it.
I know many 80yr old smokers who lived of pies/pasties and chips. So maybe they would have lived another 20yrs or not. Its anyone's guess.

We all have an expiry date. Even if we took diabetes out of the equation.

Good management prevents damage and unnecessary pain. And for some earlier death.

Out of experience. Good fitness regimes no matter your size IS the key.
If not able then try and change things so any fitness regime is possible.
Movement can save lives.

HSSS · Nov 27, 2018

I agree blame is inappropriate and unhelpful. I agree there’s no foolproof way of dodging the genetic bullet. Some (even slim active) people are going to get it no matter what choices they make. It’s kind of like they are doubly unlucky imo. The same way some people will have chest issues genetically but by choosing to not smoke and exercise they lessen their chances of problems not avoid it entirely. It’s about improving odds not getting certainties.

Saying some people get away with it, whilst true, just means they don’t have the gene predisposing them to it. It doesn’t prove anything about those of us that do have it, nor do I believe I am slave to it with no control left at all. I bet there are people out there so far avoiding or delaying diabetes by their choices but as they aren’t diagnosed how can we count them?

If lowcarb and exercise reverses, at least partially, t2 then earlier adoption of that sort of healthy life - appropriate weight within my ability, less sugar and exercise - would have at the least bought me more years prior to diagnostic levels being reached. Instead I ate the sugar and sat on my **** too much and got there sooner and have more changes to make now.

Just my view.

lucylocket61 · Nov 28, 2018

HSSS said:
If lowcarb and exercise reverses, at least partially, t2 then earlier adoption of that sort of healthy life - appropriate weight within my ability, less sugar and exercise - would have at the least bought me more years prior to diagnostic levels being reached. Instead I ate the sugar and sat on my **** too much and got there sooner and have more changes to make now.

for many of us, including me, I had no idea I would become diabetic. it wasnt a choice of deciding to maintain a lifestyle my body couldnt support. I didnt know there was another way. And left to my GP, I still wouldnt know.

Deleted member 371625 · Nov 28, 2018

lucylocket61 said:
only if you have a faulty insulin response. Otherwise, no it doesnt increase your chances of becoming a type 2 diabetic.

However, having an unhealthy lifestyle (too much processed food, not enough exercise) DOES increase the chances of developing T2, as well as increasing the chances of developing heart disease and cancer.
I am in my fifties and at no stage in my life was it not known by any person that being overweight, smoking , and not exercising was not unhealthy. The specifics of what might happen were not always widely known but the fact that it was unhealthy was known by everyone. This is probably the case for everyone under about 200 years old.

It is simply not true that it is all down to luck or genetics. All available evidence shows that lifestyle factors are the biggest cause of T2, principally too much processed food and a sedentary lifestyle. Just as smoking is the biggest cause of lung cancer (though not the only one, I have two non smoking family members who have had lung cancer).

It is irresponsible to tell people that it is all down to luck and there is nothing that you can do about it.
Does anyone seriously believe that sitting on the sofa eating doughnuts every day gives the same outcome as eating meat, veg, fruit (and grains for some) and taking moderate exercise. Following the logic of pure luck, this would have no impact on health and longevity.

zand · Nov 28, 2018

midnightrider said:
However, having an unhealthy lifestyle (too much processed food, not enough exercise) DOES increase the chances of developing T2, as well as increasing the chances of developing heart disease and cancer.
I am in my fifties and at no stage in my life was it not known by any person that being overweight, smoking , and not exercising was not unhealthy. The specifics of what might happen were not always widely known but the fact that it was unhealthy was known by everyone. This is probably the case for everyone under about 200 years old.

It is simply not true that it is all down to luck or genetics. All available evidence shows that lifestyle factors are the biggest cause of T2, principally too much processed food and a sedentary lifestyle. Just as smoking is the biggest cause of lung cancer (though not the only one, I have two non smoking family members who have had lung cancer).

It is irresponsible to tell people that it is all down to luck and there is nothing that you can do about it.
Does anyone seriously believe that sitting on the sofa eating doughnuts every day gives the same outcome as eating meat, veg, fruit (and grains for some) and taking moderate exercise. Following the logic of pure luck, this would have no impact on health and longevity.

I am finding your posts very difficult. You don't seem to understand that some of us put on weight and became lethargic through no fault of our own.

Yes of course I knew that being overweight brought risks to my health, what I didn't know was how to stop putting on weight. Mainstream advice just made things worse at least in the long term and let's face it it's the long term that really matters. I didn't even know I was depressed because I had always been like that. I didn't know I had repressed memories because...they were repressed. I didn't know that diet drinks messed up your metabolism and gut and left you at a greater risk of T2. I didn't know that regularly consuming fewer calories than I needed would result in weight gain long term. I didn't know that walking 2 miles a day would simply make my body used to the exercise so that when I couldn't walk because of illness the weight gain would be rapid. I didn't know that when I sought help for my unexplained weight gain that I would need counselling and anti-depressants. I didn't know that when the repressed memories came to light I would have PTSD which would set me back further. It was not a lifestyle choice to have to deal with PTSD and depression. It was not a lifestyle choice to be fat.

It is however a choice to be compassionate to others when they have had different experiences to your own.

I am glad I am me.

Fenn · Nov 28, 2018

midnightrider said:
However, having an unhealthy lifestyle (too much processed food, not enough exercise) DOES increase the chances of developing T2, as well as increasing the chances of developing heart disease and cancer.
I am in my fifties and at no stage in my life was it not known by any person that being overweight, smoking , and not exercising was not unhealthy. The specifics of what might happen were not always widely known but the fact that it was unhealthy was known by everyone. This is probably the case for everyone under about 200 years old.

It is simply not true that it is all down to luck or genetics. All available evidence shows that lifestyle factors are the biggest cause of T2, principally too much processed food and a sedentary lifestyle. Just as smoking is the biggest cause of lung cancer (though not the only one, I have two non smoking family members who have had lung cancer).

It is irresponsible to tell people that it is all down to luck and there is nothing that you can do about it.
Does anyone seriously believe that sitting on the sofa eating doughnuts every day gives the same outcome as eating meat, veg, fruit (and grains for some) and taking moderate exercise. Following the logic of pure luck, this would have no impact on health and longevity.

You are absolutely correct. although you cannot deny bad luck plays a massive part? Unless you are saying the people who live terribly unhealthy lives, smoke etc. And live to a ripe old age are not lucky? if they are then the reverse simply has to be true! But this is about blame not luck.

Most people do not suffer with depression, are people with depression to blame because they never went out and lived life to the full? Suicidal people to blame because they never spent enough time at the circus? Many older people are very active into their 90's + so are the ones that are not with mobility issues to blame because they never did tai chi 5 times a week? If no one ever drove a car, no one would ever die in road traffic accident, are motorists to blame for the thousands of road deaths a year?

If we are to blame, we are all to blame for everything. the marathon runners are to blame for the plastic water bottles, the meat eaters are to blame for the methane the cows fart out, astronauts are to blame for the pollution the rockets cause.

humankind is to blame for progression.

lets get some long sticks and poke people we walk past in the street for the thing they are to blame for.

Or is it just type 2 dia ****** betics?

Jeeez im grumpy today

Edited by moderator for language

Brunneria · Nov 28, 2018

Fenn said:
im grumpy today

People who perpetuate blame cultures and who lack compassium and empathy always make me grumpy, too

I Did Not Cause My Condition

BANNED

Expert

Well-Known Member

Expert

Expert

Master

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Deleted member 371625

Guest

Expert

Expert

Expert

Master

Master

Expert

Expert

Deleted member 371625

Guest

Master

Well-Known Member

Guru

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency