I need help understanding my readings / getting stuff off my chest

[PlutoIsAPlanet]

Hi All. I'm not entirely sure when I was diagnosed - I think I was pre-diabetic for maybe the past 5-7 years? but I would often go through periods where I'd shed all my weight and keep up with exercising and I'd be back down to normal levels.. I think it was sometime in late 2020~ I was above the threshold of being classed as having Type 2. I remember briefly checking my sugars last summer and they were often around the 5mmo/L - 8mmo/L mark.

I was supposed to be put on Metformin over summer last year but something happened with my prescriptions and I wasn't able to get a load of stuff prescribed.. so I just gave up on it trying to figure stuff out as it was stressing me out too much.

In mid-march I checked my blood sugars for first time and saw lots of readings over 15mmo/L, that then prompted me to take a week off work to get my health problems looked and and get my bloods done again and speak about Metformin which they put me back on.. I've been regularly taking 2x500mg Metformin daily for about 6 weeks now.. however the first 4-5~ weeks of being on Metformin I had continued eating takeaways, sleeping in bed all day, drinking a lot at weekend, etc.

A week ago I bought a FreeStyle Libre2 so that I can keep track of my blood sugars in real time and work out what causes it to spike and what doesn't, etc. but I'm not too sure what to make of my readings. I noticed if I eat anything carb/sugar heavy it will jump to 16mmo/L easily. If I eat that kind of food in the morning I have seen it jump to over 20mmo/L. It guess that's me done for and I can never eat a Pizza again? Everyone around me (non-diabetics) keep saying "Oh a little bit of this won't hurt you" .. but when I've seen my blood sugar jump over that high it has had me really worried me and I've not quite understood whether that is OK or not.. I thought the normal range was 5-8mmo/L and only on the higher end immediately after food.

The past few days I've cut out all drinking, carbs, sugary foods etc and I have been seeing it go up to 10.5mmo/L shortly after waking up and getting out of bed. It'll then go down to 8mmo/L by about 1pm and hover at that point for the remainder of the day - providing I'm not eating carb/sugary foods. This is day 3 of healthy eating. Here's hoping I make it to day 4.. and longer.. I hope I see some improvement over the next few weeks.. I think I'd be distraught again if I didn't.

I find I can have a couple of good days where I was able to keep on top of everything but things fall apart constantly.. sometimes I'd get so frustrated at what I can/can't eat, and when I try and eat healthy salads/foods I find the food really off-putting and not filling.. and in my head I just give up with everything.

I bought the Libre Monitor as I think its' the only thing really that can help me stick with this long term - being able to actually track what my bloods are doing in real time - obsessing over it is the only way I'm going to manage this I think. Slowly starting to find some recipes I can quickly make and enjoy eating. This morning was a bit of beetroot, spinach, lettuce, cooked chicken breast, grated carrot and a small amount of mature cheddar.

But still, at times this complete overhaul of a life style change seems like too much for me to manage. Since September 2019 my life has basically been roll out of bed at 9am onto my work laptop, roll back into bed at 12 for an hour nap and then back onto work, then at 6pm roll back into bed to watch TV and order a takeaway. Giving in and accepting the complications and an early death at times has felt like an easier option. My trips to A&E/mental health crisis teams has shot up drastically over the past year from self-harm/suicide attempts. To think I need to somehow be making sure I consistently wake up a couple hours before I start work and do some exercise, eat a healthy breakfast, move around during the day and also do exercise in the evening.. I don't know how to get to that point.

I've got some blood tests I need taken with the GP again at some point for a whole raft of stuff. Wondering if I should show my GP the readings from my FreeStyle Libre monitor? They didn't prescribe it so I'm not sure if they'll use the readings to help guide me on what I need to do? Should I ask for some other medication or does it sound like I might need to give metformin more chance to work in combination with consistently exercising and eating better?

Sorry this post was all a bit venty and all over the place, my head is a bit of a mess currently. Thank you for reading.

 

[IBEX82]

Firstly, well done for posting. Sometimes it’s hard to post to say you’re struggling and you’re scared about having to overhaul your life. So really, posting was a big step.

Secondly, as you’ve seen carbohydrate is not a good friend to us type 2 diabetics. The metformin I believe doesn’t have a huge impact on blood sugar levels, though I’m not a professional. So primarily, diet is a way of controlling your blood sugar levels as a type 2. This is done by most of us by following low carb lifestyles. But even low carb varies among us, some being able to have a higher carb level and others having to stay below 20g per day.

That said, stress and mood changes can even affect your blood sugar levels. It seems like you’ve made steps with the libre, and this is a great time to see what you can tolerate carb wise. The reading pre food and post food is often recommended to be no more than 2 mmol/l - so for example, pre meal 5.8 then two hours post 6.0. This would be a good indicator that the meal you ate was a decent choice that didn’t spike your blood sugar.

I think from reading your post, it seems an all or nothing approach, or that you need to an achieve this overnight but you don’t. This needs to be a permanent sustainable lifestyle for you, and given how much you’re dealing with, maybe try small changes that you can live with. Going super hard, too fast, some times results in you sticking to it for a few days and then falling ‘off the wagon’ and eating all the carbs in sight. This is not only not great for your diabetes, but it’s not good for your mental health and it can create an unhealthy relationship with food.

This is all just my opinion of course, I’m no expert, just another Type 2er. I wish you the best of luck with it.. but remember, you’re not alone. We’re all here now.

 

[Liam E]

I was where you are a couple of years ago.

Metformin can only do so much. It helps but only so much.

On the other hand your diet can completely control this. And no, not the whole grain, low fat, rabbit food diet that they have been pushing for so long I forget, but the complete opposite. The high fat, plenty of meat, no grain diet. Your libre2 is already pointing you in that direction of course.

The great news is the less carbs you eat, the less you want, and the less often you will get hungry.

Once you get your head around what spikes your blood sugar you just build your purchasing habits in the supermarket around what doesn't. The great news is that what doesn't spike your blood sugar are the sort of foods your probably wanted to be eating all along but were told not to.

Red meat, eggs, diary, poultry, fish won't spike your blood sugar. Base your new diet around those. Add in a few low carb vegges if you want, occasional nuts and berries. Do you really want a cereal for breakfast over bacon and eggs? I know I don't. Do you really want pizza over a big steak with butter in the evening? Well okay maybe, but its not exactly a hardship, is it?

Don't obsess over the libre2 measurements, but do take them on board. Get reading the low carb resources here, consider joining the low carb programme maybe. Get over to youtube and binge watch a load of David Unwin, Ken Berry and Low Carb Down Under videos.

Once your diet consists of mainly fatty meat, eggs and dairy there is no reason at all you won't completely reverse your type 2, and then be left wondering why you were always eating like this.

 

[HSSS]

Agree with all the above. You don’t have to live on rabbit food. Add in plenty of unprocessed meats, fish and dairy including eggs, cheese and greek yoghurt. Avoid low fat anything (usually full of sugar or chemical rubbish). Natural healthy fats and proteins will keep you full. Have a look at www.dietdoctor.com/keto

And you dont have to give up pizza. if you are prepared to make your own there’s lots of diy low carb versions of all the major takeaways eg https://www.ditchthecarbs.com/fat-head-pizza/. If you don’t cook now you wouldn’t be the first who takes it up as a new interest when trying to change your lifestyle. (Have a good look around websites like this one and ones like dietdoctor.com for (mostly) easy ideas or google what you want plus the words low carb or keto.

There’s even a few workarounds in some of the actual places. Eg I have a kebab without the pitta, just the meat and salad and a fork.

I went full on into the very low carb (aka keto) too. Be aware of feeling a bit rubbish if you don’t increase your fats and proteins. You still need fuel. It’s not about starving yourself. Also you are likely to need a bit more water/fluids for the time being. Carbs hold water. Without them you need a more regular supply. And that regular supply might wash out electrolytes (sodium, magnesium and potassium particularly) especially as without processed foods you take in fewer. Eat foods rich in these or supplement if need be. Symptoms could be weakness, lack of energy, shakes, or even a funny heart beat if really low but can disappear in minutes/hours if you have enough electrolytes. This electrolyte issue is the most common cause of what’s known as keto flu and easily fixed.

 

[PlutoIsAPlanet]

Thank you for your replies, it is much appreciated.

I think from reading your post, it seems an all or nothing approach

Exactly this. This is how I've been with my life with everything - never been able to find consistent balance -everything is always 100 miles an hour or at a complete stand still!

Red meat, eggs, diary, poultry, fish won't spike your blood sugar. Base your new diet around those. Add in a few low carb vegges if you want, occasional nuts and berries. Do you really want a cereal for breakfast over bacon and eggs? I know I don't. Do you really want pizza over a big steak with butter in the evening? Well okay maybe, but its not exactly a hardship, is it?

Funnily enough.. I love having egg and bacon for breakfast!

I do love fish, especially Mackerel - I used to have a Mackerel+Cheese+Tobasco Sauce+White Pasta bowl, probably enough to feed three people in one portion. Thinking I could probably swap that out to just Mackerel+Tobasco Sauce.. although it's not so filling, but I guess that's where the veg comes in.

Thing I often ended up doing was skipping breakfast altogether, not getting a proper lunch and then binge eating in the evening - bowls of cereals, takeaways, all the stuff I shouldn't be eating

A lot of the battle I found I struggle with is getting a diet plan together - when I research online I just find conflicting information of everything - I see some plans labelled as diabetic that are loaded with carbs and I just get frustrated.

I've done keto-type diets before a couple of times and lost a lot of weight but never been able to keep it up for more than 4-6 months. I feel daft because I know it works, then I think part of me over the past few years has been like "well I've lost a load of weight before, I can do it again at some other point in my life.. I'll just fall back to my old habits until that point." But now I'm 35 and I feel like my time of being able to control this is running out?

Had a good walk on the treadmill today and worked up a sweat, only a short one, but I'm hoping to build up to longer ones.

 

[HSSS]

Thank you for your replies, it is much appreciated.


Exactly this. This is how I've been with my life with everything - never been able to find consistent balance -everything is always 100 miles an hour or at a complete stand still!



Funnily enough.. I love having egg and bacon for breakfast!

I do love fish, especially Mackerel - I used to have a Mackerel+Cheese+Tobasco Sauce+White Pasta bowl, probably enough to feed three people in one portion. Thinking I could probably swap that out to just Mackerel+Tobasco Sauce.. although it's not so filling, but I guess that's where the veg comes in.

Thing I often ended up doing was skipping breakfast altogether, not getting a proper lunch and then binge eating in the evening - bowls of cereals, takeaways, all the stuff I shouldn't be eating

A lot of the battle I found I struggle with is getting a diet plan together - when I research online I just find conflicting information of everything - I see some plans labelled as diabetic that are loaded with carbs and I just get frustrated.

I've done keto-type diets before a couple of times and lost a lot of weight but never been able to keep it up for more than 4-6 months. I feel daft because I know it works, then I think part of me over the past few years has been like "well I've lost a load of weight before, I can do it again at some other point in my life.. I'll just fall back to my old habits until that point." But now I'm 35 and I feel like my time of being able to control this is running out?

Had a good walk on the treadmill today and worked up a sweat, only a short one, but I'm hoping to build up to longer ones.

There is still a lot of outdated low fat based advice out there for type 2 confusing people. Pick an approach and then a source or two and ignore the rest for the time being. You can always review it again later. Follow what your meter tells you as it has no opinion or bias.

Why do you give up after 4-6 months? Is it too strict? Do you think you’re “fixed”? Are you bored? Identifying what goes wrong and why is the first step to fixing it? I struggle with moderation and have learned just a little often doesn’t stop there for me and it’s actually easier to have none than fight that particular battle.

Are outdoor walks somewhere pleasant ideally an option? The fresh air, hopefully sunshine sometime soon, sounds of nature means not only is the walk just physically good but mentally too.

 

[PlutoIsAPlanet]

Ach. Now I'm confused. I know there's meant to be a bit of a lag between Libre Readings and finger-prick, but over the past day I've been checking via finger prick it has been consistently 1.5mmo/L lower than the Libre.

For example - According to the graph on my Libre I've not gone below 8mmo/L~ all day. I've had three readings on my finger prick in the past couple hours at around 6.5mmo/L~.

Feeling conflicted. Do I be pleased that my blood sugars are possibly lower than I thought. But then if Libre isn't reliable.. I feel I will struggle without it. Knowing I have it there monitoring constantly feels like something that is going to help me .. but not if it isn't accurate.

 

[IBEX82]

Thank you for your replies, it is much appreciated.


Exactly this. This is how I've been with my life with everything - never been able to find consistent balance -everything is always 100 miles an hour or at a complete stand still!



Funnily enough.. I love having egg and bacon for breakfast!

I do love fish, especially Mackerel - I used to have a Mackerel+Cheese+Tobasco Sauce+White Pasta bowl, probably enough to feed three people in one portion. Thinking I could probably swap that out to just Mackerel+Tobasco Sauce.. although it's not so filling, but I guess that's where the veg comes in.

Thing I often ended up doing was skipping breakfast altogether, not getting a proper lunch and then binge eating in the evening - bowls of cereals, takeaways, all the stuff I shouldn't be eating

A lot of the battle I found I struggle with is getting a diet plan together - when I research online I just find conflicting information of everything - I see some plans labelled as diabetic that are loaded with carbs and I just get frustrated.

I've done keto-type diets before a couple of times and lost a lot of weight but never been able to keep it up for more than 4-6 months. I feel daft because I know it works, then I think part of me over the past few years has been like "well I've lost a load of weight before, I can do it again at some other point in my life.. I'll just fall back to my old habits until that point." But now I'm 35 and I feel like my time of being able to control this is running out?

Had a good walk on the treadmill today and worked up a sweat, only a short one, but I'm hoping to build up to longer ones.

Hey, don’t be too hard on yourself. You’re not running away from this and you’re trying to get on an even keel with your diabetes - some people never even get to that step.

I find the dietdoctor.com a great low carb resource - the free section has lots of Infographics which can show you carb content of common foods at a glance which means you can switch things out easily.

You can do this and you’re not running out of time. With the right food changes, you can turn this around in a few months but then you need to maintain it. There are lots of swaps you can do for foods you love, with your mackerel example, swap the pasta for cauliflower rice. Count your carbs and eat to your blood glucose monitor.

Before my snacks would be crisps and chocolate and now I haven’t stopped having the odd snack - I just choose better things to suit my blood sugar such as cheese or meat.

If you miss things that were go to things before, there are keto alternatives, yes even bread, pizza and cakes but these still have some carbs and need to fit in with your overall limits. You won’t know what your limits are until you see your blood sugar levels responding. People aim for 20g as it is super low and shouldn’t cause blood sugar spikes but there’s people on here eating more carbs than that and maintaining their blood glucose.

We’re all individual but finding ways you can stick with it is key for long term control.

 

[Liam E]

Thank you for your replies, it is much appreciated.


Exactly this. This is how I've been with my life with everything - never been able to find consistent balance -everything is always 100 miles an hour or at a complete stand still!



Funnily enough.. I love having egg and bacon for breakfast!

I do love fish, especially Mackerel - I used to have a Mackerel+Cheese+Tobasco Sauce+White Pasta bowl, probably enough to feed three people in one portion. Thinking I could probably swap that out to just Mackerel+Tobasco Sauce.. although it's not so filling, but I guess that's where the veg comes in.

Thing I often ended up doing was skipping breakfast altogether, not getting a proper lunch and then binge eating in the evening - bowls of cereals, takeaways, all the stuff I shouldn't be eating

A lot of the battle I found I struggle with is getting a diet plan together - when I research online I just find conflicting information of everything - I see some plans labelled as diabetic that are loaded with carbs and I just get frustrated.

I've done keto-type diets before a couple of times and lost a lot of weight but never been able to keep it up for more than 4-6 months. I feel daft because I know it works, then I think part of me over the past few years has been like "well I've lost a load of weight before, I can do it again at some other point in my life.. I'll just fall back to my old habits until that point." But now I'm 35 and I feel like my time of being able to control this is running out?

Had a good walk on the treadmill today and worked up a sweat, only a short one, but I'm hoping to build up to longer ones.

I've got 20 years on you, you've got all the time in the world!

Yes the diet information for type 2s is contradictory. Following the standard low fat eat well plate type diet that has been plugged for decades now type 2 was progressive and irreversible, not to mention that the majority of people find eating like that a miserable existence. Following low carb high fat type 2 is reversible, probably permanently, certainly as long as you keep carb intake fairly low. And the food is great. Decide whether you want to keep your toes and eyesight and make your choice accordingly. I know that is putting it bluntly, but that is reality for us.

I don't think in terms of meal plans at all. I think what do I fancy with my 500g of meat tonight. That meat is as often as not beef (cheapo Aldi mince, I'm not rich) or sausages, lamb, chicken etc to mix things up. Whatever I fancy that day. And I've abandoned thinking about the term "full" - I felt over full for years but was always hungry. I look for satisfied. A much better feeling. It the feeling you get when your body has everything it needs rather than your stomach being physically stretched. 500g of beef, 3 eggs and some mushrooms. That leaves me completely satisfied. I have deli meats, cheese, sardines, salmon, greek yoghurt, nuts etc if I want a snack.

I don't worry whether I'm keto or not. I tend to eat far too much protein for keto. Keeping that carbs very low is the key, with cutting out processed foods and seed oils vying for a distant second.

Walking is great exercise. I have a big dog to bully me into going for a walk everyday even when I don't fancy it. With the warmer weather coming look to be getting outside for your walk for the vitamin D.

You've got this.

 

[Liam E]

Ach. Now I'm confused. I know there's meant to be a bit of a lag between Libre Readings and finger-prick, but over the past day I've been checking via finger prick it has been consistently 1.5mmo/L lower than the Libre.

For example - According to the graph on my Libre I've not gone below 8mmo/L~ all day. I've had three readings on my finger prick in the past couple hours at around 6.5mmo/L~.

Feeling conflicted. Do I be pleased that my blood sugars are possibly lower than I thought. But then if Libre isn't reliable.. I feel I will struggle without it. Knowing I have it there monitoring constantly feels like something that is going to help me .. but not if it isn't accurate.

In mid march you said the reading were in the mid teens range.

Be pleased. Be very pleased.

Still a way to go, and you have got to find eating habits, rather than a diet, that work for you long term but basically halving your blood sugar in a couple of months is great. Take a victory lap.

I wouldn't be comparing libre2 and finger prick measurements. They will always be a bit different. What matters is the direction of the graph, not any given measurement. And your graph is going perfectly in the right direction when you compare your mid march reading to now.

Incidently it took me about 6 weeks to get my finger prick readings down to consistenly below 7. I rarely bother to measure anymore but when I do I tend to be in the 4.5 to low 6's range.

 

[PlutoIsAPlanet]

In mid march you said the reading were in the mid teens range.

Be pleased. Be very pleased.

Thank you! This is Day 3 of strict diet, exercising and I've recorded a 5.6mmo/L reading this evening a few hours after eating and after a 2KM walk! I'm feeling very happy with that. I was starting to get convinced I'd never see numbers below 8mmo/L again..

I also noticed my normal morning high this morning was only up to 10mmo/L, unlike the normal 14-15s range it had been over the past few weeks.
A long way to go, but the replies here and also reading some of the success stories has got me starting to think with a more positive outlook on life.

I bought another Libre monitor which I'll wear for another 2 weeks, hopefully by the end of that my blood sugar patterns are more predictable and I'll know what does and doesn't spike my blood sugar.

Blood test on Thursday, so I'll get my a1C done then.. they did it in March and it was supposedly very high (I don't remember the numbers). I'm going to request a copy of my a1C over the past few years and try and see how the dips/rises correlates with my physical activity at the time.

I've got a long way to go with losing weight though, aiming to lose 25kg but I've not set myself any specific time target just yet.. I used to be really obsessive over it and try and predict when I'll be at X weight but I found if I missed one of those targets I'd just lose motivation. If I knew I was coming up to a target I should have met I would say I'd just stop weighing myself for those few days.. then a few more days.. then it becomes a week.. then a couple weeks.. next thing you know I've completely given up on trying to lose weight. So yep - 25kg down - 6 months, 12 months, 18 months? I don't think I want to worry too much about when - just as long as it's constantly going down.