Inspiration needed?

Deespee23 said:

Ok - I accept that some people might have been upset by the graphic nature of the images in the links I posted (I half expected that it would be modded.....) - however, they would be a lot more upset if what was depicted in the images was actually happening to them. Yes - the images were not nice. But neither are uncontrolled foot ulcers and amputated limbs.

A personal diabetic (T2) accquaintance of mine has gone down this route (losing a limb) and he has stated that it all stemmed from a tiny ulcer on his foot that didn't get better.

I hope I won't fall foul of the mods again by encouraging people to Google "Diabetic Foot Ulcer Images" etc. - but I think that a lot of us are living in a fool's paradise with regard to expectations of how this illness can play out if no steps are taken to counter it. Make no mistake - this is where ignoring your illness can lead if you're not careful.

What I'm saying is....KNOW YOUR ENEMY - don't exist in a state of ignorant bliss.

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Hi @Deespee23, yes indeed,we stick our heads in the sand at our own peril,if you really want it from the hip do get a copy of Dr Richard Bernstein's Diabetes solution 4 th Edition he himself is T1 and has been for last 55yrs,his advices are excellent,all the best to uou,clive

I agree.

The number of amputations due to diabetes is horrifying.
https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/more-than-135-diabetes-amputations-every-week/

And diabetes is the biggest cause of blindness in the working-adult UK population.
https://nei.nih.gov/health/diabetic/retinopathy

And diabetes is the most common cause of kidney failure in the United States
https://www.davita.com/kidney-disea...blood-sugar-and-chronic-kidney-disease/e/8012

The problem is that most newly diagnosed diabetics simply aren't told how serious the disease is.
Doctors try to give the diagnosis gently, and send us off with a few meds and some referrals for regular checkups.
- and if that comes as a shock, then it certainly isn't the time to start talking about kidney failure, stabbing foot pain, numbness, amputations and blindness, is it?

So a bit of time passes, and the new Diabetic gets their head around it, and life sort of goes on as normal... for years.

But all that time, the damage is mounting up. And by the time the first symptoms appear a heck of a lot of damage is already done, and it is far harder, often impossible, to reverse that damage by the time it is even noticeable.

At which point the common cry is 'why didn't anybody tell me?'

Doctors are in a really difficult position. They believe that diabetes is a progressive and degenerative condition. All their training, and all their experience shows this. They know, when they give that first diagnosis to the surprised patient, that there are decades of diabetes ahead of them. Progressive. Degenerative. They also believe, through years of treating patients, that most people seem unable to lose the weight that they are told to lose. And are unable to make the lifestyle changes they are told to make. Or keep their blood glucose down. Or maintain a good standard deviation. They watch this played out in their consulting rooms month after month, year after year. So why waste their breath on this new patient, who is just going to do the same as all the others... get worse, take drugs, get worse, get more drugs and still end up with complications...

Many patients dodge their checkups, don't show up for clinic appointments, falsify their blood glucose records, or don't test at all. Most T2s are told they shouldn't be testing because it will worry them.

I am incredibly lucky. I am a nosy person. I like finding things out. I am also rather distrustful of doctors since they made a couple of really glaring errors in my healthcare, which have inconvenienced me (understatement) for decades. So MY reaction was to read, to find out, to question. It brought me to low carb. It brought me here. It brought me friends on the forum. Then it brought me to Jenny Ruhl, Bernstein, DietDoctor, and some really fabulous food. It also made me feel better. And as far as I know, my diabetes has improved over the last 5 years, rather than progressing.

But I think we have to understand that most people take a good long time to accept their diagnosis, and when they do, they take even longer to connect the dots between Old Pre-D Living, and what needs to be done in their New D Life. And that applies just as much to T1s, 1.5s, 2s and the various 3s. If we want to have good, full, enjoyable, rewarding future decades, then this thing takes WORK.

Having seen what diabetes did to my grandmother I found no trouble at all in altering my diet drastically from the moment I was diagnosed, despite having no advice at all other than take these tablets.
I have not been absolutely perfect, but my meter shows drastic alterations in levels.
I might have felt sorry for myself for maybe half a minute here and there, but most of the time I consider myself one of the lucky ones. I have had decades of practice in restarting Atkins, getting into ketosis and losing the weight carb laden diets put on me. I had even managed to gain weight only slowly when ordered to reduce cholesterol by changing my diet.
Eating low carb foods is the best possible diet for me, I feel wonderful, I lose weight with very little effort, I have energy, my aches and pains go away, I go out and jump on the trampoline in the garden or ride my bicycle. If it also conflicts with diabetes and wins, there simply isn't a down side to it.

Deespee23 said:

Hi all

This isn't gonna be a cuddly, it'll-be-OK, type post. It's a response to some of the posts I have seen on the various parts of the forum which run along the lines of "I've just been diagnosed and recomended to change my diet/lifestyle/etc. but I just miss pizza/bread/potatoes/beer/sugar/fruit/(insert high-carb food/beverage of choice) too much to give it up etc., etc.,etc....".

Over the past year - since my own diagnosis, I have come to realise, in the starkest possible terms, that diabetes is not an abstract concept that may or may not cause you harm - if you've been diagnosed, then the ball is in your court. Nobody else's. It is down to YOU to preserve YOUR health for as long as possible.

I really get the feeling that people just don't realise the seriousness of our illness - if you neglect it it WILL creep up on you and bite you on the backside. The insidious bit is that at first, you can't feel how much damage the BS spikes are doing to you, creating a wholly-unjustified sense of complacency. It's one thing talking about a "foot ulcer" in abstract terms but quite another to see half your foot hanging off (as per the images) with an amputation the only way of dealing with it (and, unfortunately, this is so often not the last stage in the process). So how do we get the message across that we are not necessarily victims but can actually be in charge of our own destiny?

I think the first step is knowing what the implications of our disease really are - this will be more likely to inspire a diabetic to take action rather that just being expected to shuffle along the corridor of life not knowing what's around the corner - until it's too late!

On a slightly more positive note, having been a member of the forum for just on a year now, I am convinced that we CAN dodge the bullet...if we take positive action (diet, exercise or whatever works) in an appropriate and timely manner.

Yes, I know diabetes is not a very pleasant disease - and in respect of its many victims, I do feel for every one that has been affected by it - my heart goes out to them for the pain and anguish they have been through - BUT if it makes at least one of us think about the implications of what we eat and how we can best look after ourselves, then I will be happy (or at least happier!).

Sorry if this reads a bit bleakly - but we don't have to go there. BUT doing nothing is not an option.

Mod edit to remove links as content is too graphic.

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Totally agree with you. It's no good pussyfooting around saying I can't do this .. I can't give that up.
I don't know why our GP's don't give us this info. Don't they want to scare us ? We need scaring !!
It will be a lot scarier when, faced with amputation, blindness or kidney failure, .. we are then saying.. Why didn't anyone tell me about this?

As my heart failure came many years before my T2 .. I was eating to the governments recommended eating plan.. as ordered to by the Drs. (Sadly I have T2 friends who are still eating to the Gov & Drs eating plans) .. My health has greatly improved since going against all the professional advice .. I found LCHF very easy to change to .. But its impossible to get some people to go against current eating advice .. They believe their Dr and DSN .. So yes its slightly annoying when we read in the forums statements like 'I can't give up carbs' but its should read 'I don't want to give up carbs' This is their choice, and I respect this .. but I am more concerned for the people who are eating what they think is right for them .. with their Drs and DSN agreeing with the diet advice and handing out more medications and looking on with sympathy at the foot being amputated .. saying well thats diabetes for you .. its a progressive illness ...
It is my personal view that until Drs advise T2's or even pre diabetes to get a meter and test, test, test (even if people have to self fund) things will not change .. I used to trust the medical profession to know what its advising, sadly others still do.

Edit to add ::: I was told I would loose my sight or feet if I did not follow the healthy eating plan ... thats full of carbs ... I was even given booklets showing horror stories of people in a bad way from not following their drs eating advice ... We need to educate the educators ...

My personal view is that, not actually when being given the diagnosis, but a week or two after, all diabetics should be given a booklet relating to their condition stating exactly what diabetes is and what in particular their diabetes is, what can happen if the condition isn't controlled (with graphic pictures) and what the person can do to control it (similar to Daisy1's helpful newbie email).

I really do appreciate that DNs feel hopeless when telling newly diagnosed to change their diet because of the high rate of non-compliance but I think people would be more compliant if they knew what was really at stake.

Having been through prediabetes and diabetes (wrong!) Through all the advice that was counter intuitive to how your body works or doesn't!
Through having to learn how food affects your body and how to achieve complete control of my condition!
Through the ignorance of doctors not knowing metabolic conditions and how diet is the most important part of your life to your health.
Through the diagnosis of my wife's T2! And to help her achieve good levels.
It is this belief that diabetes is not sustainable through diet alone that has the medical educators at odds with the true facts that a well balanced low carb diet with a modicum of reasonable exercise can be so beneficial to your life and your health.

Scare tactics are not profitable to the pharmaceutical industry.
Scare tactics are frowned upon by the do gooders that dictate health care, they have to be sympathetic and empathetic towards those who haven't a clue about how they should control their condition.
There is not enough education to how food can slowly kill you!
The truth is out there!

Not many listening yet!

I see part of the problem as being told very little when diagnosed, but given a pill or two. People go away in the belief these pills are miraculous and that they can continue eating and living as before providing they take the pills. I can't count the number of people arriving on this forum with statements such as "my Metformin isn't working". They seem confused when told that diet is the key, and even more confused when advised that it isn't just a matter of cutting down on chocolate and cakes. They didn't know. They hadn't been told. They were given pills, just like we are given antibiotics when we have an infection - the pill will cure it. The pills aren't working so I need more.

Bluetit1802 said:

I see part of the problem as being told very little when diagnosed, but given a pill or two. People go away in the belief these pills are miraculous and that they can continue eating and living as before providing they take the pills. I can't count the number of people arriving on this forum with statements such as "my Metformin isn't working". They seem confused when told that diet is the key, and even more confused when advised that it isn't just a matter of cutting down on chocolate and cakes. They didn't know. They hadn't been told. They were given pills, just like we are given antibiotics when we have an infection - the pill will cure it. The pills aren't working so I need more.

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Exactly what I think. Better to be (almost) cruel and give the newly diagnosed the worst case scenario - at least then they won't 48b d up lying in a hospital bed wondering why they are blind or having a limb removed - they will know it was their own choices that got them there rather than thinking the medical professionals really let them down. JMHO

Chook said:

I really do appreciate that DNs feel hopeless when telling newly diagnosed to change their diet because of the high rate of non-compliance but I think people would be more compliant if they knew what was really at stake.

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How can this be .. when they are giving out wrong advice .. I am labelled non compliant as I refuse to eat to the gov. eat well plate and I test my own BS. My DSN is furious that I am now no longer in the diabetic bs range ... and keeps telling me I MUST eat more carbs ... we must educate the educators ...

Chook said:

Exactly what I think. Better to be (almost) cruel and give the newly diagnosed the worst case scenario - at least then they won't 48b d up lying in a hospital bed wondering why they are blind or having a limb removed - they will know it was their own choices that got them there rather than thinking the medical professionals really let them down. JMHO

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This is not 'their own choice' when they are following the guide lines given ... it is the medical professionals really letting them down !!!

I have been enrolling on various health courses with an online provider called FutureLearn - maybe some of you have heard of them - in order to gain a better insight on diet and health. However, I have been frankly appalled at the content of some of the courses which are aimed at health professionals, diabetics and overweight learners which are still spouting the old Eatwell Guide with its carb laden emphasis and advice to eat low fat products. I have been avidly arguing the low carb case on these sites and I'm glad to see that some of the other learners are already on board and others are now beginning to sit up and take notice once they have read some of the supporting evidence.
This message needs to be put out there so that more people affected by obesity and diabetes are made aware that there are alternatives to the vicious cycle of bad medical and nutritional advice that they are being given.
Sorry perhaps this should have been on the "rant" thread!

A low carb diet seems to work much better with high fat. (Not excessively high). Reduce the high carbs, eat more above ground veg. Now off meds. It works for me.

Without it turning into a LCHF is the only way thread, yes, diabetes can be bad.

But, I don't have complications.
I've punched a rusty nail through my foot.
(ok, it didn't actually come out of the top, but it was a mm or two there, and bent on the way in, and quite hurt a bit coming out, but not as much as the ear bud pushed in to disinfect it.)
But, it was pulled out, and I recovered.

But no one ever told me the tablets would fix me.
No one lied to me, they told me I was obese, and that not being obese would be better.

And then the NHS helped me fix that, so yes, the NHS method does work for some of us.

The problem is, it's hard, like any lifestyle change, and it depends on how much you want to put into it as an individual, and what your targets are.

Mine was complete reversal, and getting my life back.

Some don't do that, some are in the middle, and some have no knowledge, but the problem is educating those that don't want the knowledge.
That's where the NHS are struggling.

I would add that not every could reverse T2 diabetes, even if they wanted to. Not all T2 is lifestyle/diet related. Those who are, for example, insulin deficient, or perhaps steroid induced, just as examples, would find it extremely difficult, if not impossible to reverse.

One size doesn't fit all. Some of us got lucky to be diagnosed whilst still physiologically able to make quantum sifts to our condition.

AndBreathe said:

I would add that not every could reverse T2 diabetes, even if they wanted to. Not all T2 is lifestyle/diet related. Those who are, for example, insulin deficient, or perhaps steroid induced, just as examples, would find it extremely difficult, if not impossible to reverse.

One size doesn't fit all. Some of us got lucky to be diagnosed whilst still physiologically able to make quantum sifts to our condition.

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True.

Always worth a punt though, wouldn't you agree?
Losing weight is always advantageous?

douglas99 said:

True.

Always worth a punt though, wouldn't you agree?
Losing weight is always advantageous?

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I doubt anyone, including myself is challenging the benefits of trimming up.

My last in this, thanks.

AndBreathe said:

I doubt anyone, including myself is challenging the benefits of trimming up.

My last in this, thanks.

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Yes, indeed.
If I remember correctly, like me, you made a very impressive trimming up of a similar 1/4 of your body weight, with similar spectacular results?
A great amount of effort, and a great result to be admired.