• Guest, the forum is undergoing some upgrades and so the usual themes will be unavailable for a few days. In the meantime, you can use the forum like normal. We'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the 2025 Survey »

Insulin resistance or lack of insulin

viv k

Well-Known Member
Hi, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes over a year ago. I had gestational diabetes 12 years ago. My HbA1c was 50 at diagnosis, though I had already cut out most sugar from my diet prior to that test.

For the last year I have been controlling my blood sugars by eating a low carb diet and exercising after meals (when possible) – my last HbA1c was 43, but I have lost 5kg since diagnosis (now 53.5kg). My fasting readings are usually around 7 to 8.

1 to 2 hours after meals I often get blood sugar readings of 11-15, even though my diet is low carb. I can usually get my blood sugars down to 6 -8 by doing 15 minutes of intensive exercise on a stationary bike.

I understand that exercise helps with reducing insulin resistance,. My question is, I wondered if I might be LADA or type 1.5 because I've never been overweight, but IF exercise brings my sugars down does that mean my problem must be insulin resistance?
 
Hi. It's possible you are a LADA. If you don't have excess weight then your insulin resistance should be quite low unless you have a lot of inner fat. Excercise always helps anyone with diabetes with or without insulin resistance. There are two tests for LADA i.e. GAD and c-peptide but many GPs are reluctant to do them or haven't heard of LADA. The treatment process is the key thing together with the low carb i.e. tablets until they no longer control blood sugar and then insulin. I went down that route
 
As you say that you're not overweight it could be due to a number of factors including 'Insulin Resistance'.
It is possible to measure the amount of Insulin that your body produces within a blood sample, and from this figure if it's high or normal then that would indicate 'Insulin Resistance' however a low 'Insulin Profile' would indicate possible 'Burn Out' of the Beta cells within your Pancreas, their being unable to produce sufficient 'Insulin' to meet your bodies' demand.
You say that you have only been diagnose as Type 2 just over the year ago, however you might have been experiencing low Insulin production as 'Beta cell Burn Out' often occurs over a lengthy time period, even before you diabetes was confirmed.
If it should prove to be 'Insulin Resistance' as the problem rather than 'Insulin Production' then taking a Chromium supplement often helps as 85% of type 2's have low Chromium levels at the point of diagnosis .
 
Does anyone know if intensive exercise stimulates insulin production/release? I have read that intensive exercise reduces insulin resistance, but is that the only mechanism by which exercise gets the blood sugars down?
 
viv k, I read your post from a year ago too, and am glad you switched to the LCHF diet. The information you presented last year mirrored my treatment experience in 2004 very closely.

I'm comparing your experience to mine. Could be LADA. Here's a link... http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/18382053.php You won't know until you get tested, but if you want to continue to explore the possibility that you're type 2 not LADA or type 1.5, I have lots of questions for you...

- Have your readings about type 2 diabetes and the LCHF diet all been on the internet? Or have you read any books? If yes, which books?
- Did you by chance get a copy of Jenny Ruhl's book Blood Sugar 101? (That would be my first choice for you. Of the stack of books I have, that's the one that I read and re-read. Once ordered, it will take a while to get to you.)
- I have no questions about your exercise routines, because you've clearly got that one handled. Way to go viv k!
- Do you have any other diagnoses - (gastro-intestinal, heart, vascular, autoimmune)?
- Do you have any problems with any specific foods?
- On the LCHF diet, it's important to have a source of carbohydrate, fat, and protein with every meal. It will be helpful to know what types of carbs, fats, and proteins you eat. It also would be helpful to know what a typical breakfast, lunch, and dinner is for you. If you eat salad, what do you put in your salad? And if you snack between meals, what do you eat for snacks? (I ask these diet questions only because that's the only way I and other forum members can catch something that you could change that might help).
- What beverages do your regularly drink?
- What cooking oils do you use?
- Are you taking any nutritional supplements? A multi-vitamin, vitamin D or magnesium perhaps?
- Are you now in your 30's? 40's? 50's?
- Do you have any family history of diabetes? Gastro-intestinal disorders? Heart or vascular disease? Autoimmune disorders?

If you don't want to answer here, it's okay to private mail me too. Or if these questions feel to nosey, I understand. :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Does anyone know if intensive exercise stimulates insulin production/release? I have read that intensive exercise reduces insulin resistance, but is that the only mechanism by which exercise gets the blood sugars down?

I'm going to speculate that if you don't have any visceral fat, and you exercise regularly, that diet (or supplements if there is a nutritional deficiency) would be your best bet to investigate to improve insulin production. Perhaps someone else will have additional input.
 
Hi Winnie, thanks for your interest.

Initially I read every book on diabetes I could find in my local library and bought a copy of Merlin Thomas's “ Understanding type 2 diabetes”. I've also read a lot online .

I'm in my early 50s, no other health problems, cholesterol & blood pressure good. I have a sibling with MS, who encouraged me to get a Vit D test. I was very low in Vit D (very cautious about skin cancer as common in my family, so now take supplements). When I had gestational diabetes I saw a specialist who tested me for latent type 1, but it came back negative then. I have always been fairly active, but stepped things up in a big way last year and much fitter now. It's mid winter here in NZ and it is harder to keep motivated when it's cold and dark.

My breakfast is my most carb intensive meal of the day, about 30g, (weetbix, 2 slices pear, 1 slice thin Vogels bread, olive oil spread, vegemite & cheese). I drive 30 minutes to work, walk 5 min & then am mostly sedentary until lunch. My readings 2 hours after breakfast are between 6 and 10 and I've no idea why they vary so much.

Before lunch I usually walk up the 10 flights of stairs in my office building 3 x. It would make more sense to do it after eating, but I get 45 minutes for lunch and it's not practical to walk up 600 steps on a full stomach!

Lunch is almost always 2 Tbsp pearl barley, 2 Tbsp left over evening meal (eg chicken & cashew, re-fried beans, pork satay) with a heap of lettuce salad, bean salad or coleslaw. Very careful to only use a little spoon of dressings under 5% sugar. I bake savory muffins using chickpea flour and gluten flour (feta & salami) and sometimes have one after lunch. I calculated them at 5-7g carb.

Last week I had a blood sugar reading of 15.7 2 hours after lunch. I haven't been testing a lot at work, but when I do it's almost always over 10, often over 12. If I am at home and able to be out walking or gardening, it will usually be in single figures.

Evening meal is usually a bigger version of lunch. For snacks I eat nuts & cheese (I think that is what has stopped me losing any more weight). I bake low GI muffins & cake -using stevia, xylitol, sometimes a little sugar, ground almonds, gluten flour, oat bran etc. Got a pretty awesome chocolate/avocado/ beetroot cake and a carrot cake, but I only have 1 small piece at a time. I only drink tea, coffee, skim milk, water, diet soft drink and red wine. Occasional apple. 2 pieces sugar free dark chocolate a few days a week. If I'm really splashing out, I'll have 6 crisps.

So much of what I have read about type 2 is about obesity. Almost all the focus is on losing weight and exercise, I've done that and I know that my HbA1c of 43 means that the medical professionals aren't worried about me, but I've only got it that low by working really hard. It has become such a big part of my life that it is starting to have adverse effects, I don't eat out because it's no fun to only have the salad. I have to leap up after meals and exercise, or else worry about having high sugar levels. I'm kind of sick of it and open to taking some medication to have a bit more normal life.

I wondered if I might be LADA, but the fact that my sugars go down with intensive (not light) exercise, makes me wonder if I really am just insulin resistant. I've been told that the GAD & c-peptide tests are expensive, which is why they aren't done much, they just put everyone on metformin. I'll take it if that's what I need, but I hoped to work out which problem I have, insulin resistance or lack of insulin?
 
viv k, apologies for taking so long to get back to you. I live in the western US. As I write this, it's Monday 7 a.m. where you are, and Sunday 12 noon where I am. I became dehydrated during my walk yesterday. Finally realized I needed salt, which helped a lot, but chose to stay up later than normal to make sure I was okay before going to bed. Feeling much better now.

The information you've shared now leads me to believe that it's very likely your diet is causing the blood glucose spikes, which you can change. :)

I know this is going to come as a bit of a shock to you, but I wonder if your blood glucose levels would come down if you greatly limited, or preferably, eliminated fruit - (small amounts of berries may still be okay with your meal, perhaps with yogurt, nuts, or both) - grains, starchy vegetables - (typically ones that grow underground) - and legumes from your diet.

I do understand that's a lot of change all at once. I really do...

When I was formally diagnosed with non-celiac gluten sensitivity (NCGS) after having already been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, I was...not happy. And I really questioned it, in part because I had no gastro-intestinal upset from eating wheat, rye, or barley, (but also because I enjoyed baking and eating refined grains and sugar, in moderation of course). 60% of those with NCGS have no gastro-intestinal symptoms. I'm one of them.

So giving up those specific grains was not immediately rewarding. The abrupt elimination of wheat from my diet threw me into withdrawal. Not fun. I talked with the local gluten-free support group and they hooked me up with a superb gluten-free, refined grains and sugar baker, but reminded me that I still needed to increase my intake of plant based, whole foods, which I also did. I've always eaten adequate protein such as meat, poultry, fish, eggs. nuts, etc. so no transition was needed there. Life was good again. :)

Fast forward to 2015. I got blindsided with a A1C of 9.9%. The next day, I found out about the LCHF diet, and read the chapters on what to eat, what not to eat, in Richard K. Bernstein's book, Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution, 4th Edition.

I next bought a blood glucose meter and began testing, removed all foods I could no longer eat from the house, and brought in lots of fresh vegetables, healthy fats, and proteins including meat, poultry, fish, cheese and eggs from pastured animals, and three types of raw nuts.

And I changed my diet again. And went through withdrawal again, but this time from gluten-free refined grains and sugar. I still have a box of 9 gluten-free, peanut butter cookies made with almond flour in my freezer. On nights when I couldn't bare the change, I'd allow myself one cookie. The second box I bought is still half full.

A daily glass of dry, red wine and a square or two of 70% cocoa, later 85%, of dark chocolate got me through the transition. I am now adding back very small amounts of starchy vegetables and legumes, occasionally, but it's really slow going. I'm talking about a quarter of a carrot or a tablespoon or two of legumes added to my salad or soup, but not every day.

I continue to eat no grains or sugar.

viv k, it's a big adjustment to do this, but I began feeling better immediately. It took a month, but my blood glucose levels eventually came down to where they are now.

The first thing I noticed was no more refined grain/sugar ups and downs throughout the day. I no longer was thinking about what I was going to eat every 2 hours all the time. Though during the initial adjustment period when I was losing weight, at times I got hungry, but in a different way. Snacks were very important at that time, an ounce of nuts mostly. I think I foods like hard cheeses and nuts will continue to be important for you to prevent additional weight loss. In the weeks that followed, I began to feel calm, which has never been normal for me.

Here's what I most wish I'd known then that I know now. The LCHF diet really messed with my electrolyte balance. The muscle cramps were the hardest part.

To resolve this issue, I now take 99 mg of potassium with breakfast, 150 mg magnesium citrate with all three meals - (for a total of 450 mg day) - and salt dissolved in hot water intermittently.

I started with an 1/8th teaspoon of salt and worked up to a 1/3 teaspoon over time. The body recycles sodium, so I still haven't figured out how much I need a week. I realized I needed salt last night when I developed a headache, felt overheated, and recalled that my throat hasn't felt right for two mornings. A 1/2 teaspoon of salt restored me.

Learn more about magnesium today by doing an internet search. We probably should all be supplementing with it. Learn why. (It's required for almost 300 processes in the body and most of us are not getting the daily requirement from food). I take magnesium citrate. It's good you're supplementing with vitamin D. It plays an important role in shutting off the inflammation process within a 48 hour window following an injury to the tissue. :)

I encourage you to get the 4th edition of Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution and read chapters 10, 11 & 12 on diet, also to return to the Diet Doctor website at http://www.dietdoctor.com/ and the Low Carb Diet forum here http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/category/low-carb-diet-forum.18/ and start reading. This particular forum is also a good place to ask lots of questions. We'll support you through this if you choose to make the changes. If not now, later. We'll still be here.

Hope this helps. :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for the diet advice Winnie. Thank goodness for red wine and dark chocolate :-) I'm at the stage where I'm considering medication rather than further diet restrictions. I'm 5 ft 4, 54kg (119lb) and don't want to lose any more weight.
 
viv k, you and I are similar in age in height. 120 pounds would likely be my goal weight. I understand. I once weighed 95 pounds throughout high school and for a few years afterward, which was both effortless and normal for me. I had the most incredible metabolism. :)

I came across this testimony tonight. Immediately thought of you - (at the end of the article is a link to his daily blood sugar log)...

http://www.dietdoctor.com/i-came-across-your-website-saved-my-life
 
Thanks for the diet advice Winnie. Thank goodness for red wine and dark chocolate :) I'm at the stage where I'm considering medication rather than further diet restrictions. I'm 5 ft 4, 54kg (119lb) and don't want to lose any more weight.

I'm in a similar situation in terms of both the weight loss situation & wondering where I stand re: is it insulin resistance or low insulin production. I have no answers for you sorry viv k but was just wondering if it might be worth getting a 'sticky' happening in the low carb diet forum where those of us wanting to halt weight loss but maintain low carb could share tips? I've noticed a few others asking lately but I still have no idea how forums work or who to ask to get a permanent thread up & running....... any help from more experienced members would be much appreciated :)
 
Hi Safi, I think it is the nuts and cheese (& occasional bierstick) snacks that have helped my weight stay stable recently, but saturated fat is NOT a good idea for those with cholesterol issues, so I wouldn't go recommending it to others.

I suspect I could be LADA /type 1.5 and if I'm not making much insulin, there is a limit to what even more fiddling with my diet will do. I'm not a "foodie" and I just want to set things up, so I can get on with life with my diabetes being less of a worry for me.

My original question came about because I'm considering going back to my GP and pushing for more tests, so I know what my actual problem is and so I can take a medication that will be effective. I have read that exercise reduces insulin resistance and I know that intensive exercise gets my sugars down. Last night my BS was 13 (230) 1 hour even after a low GI dinner, 15 minutes on the stationary bike (pretty full on) and my BS was 8.2 (147). It might be that my main problem IS insulin resistance and I'm going to look silly demanding tests for LADA. I just wondered if anyone knew if exercise might be making me release what insulin I have.
 
Hi,

Is it possible you are triggering a liver dump with your exercise before lunch each day?

By having those carbs at breakfast (not a criticism!) you will still be maintaining a significant glycogen store in your liver. If you are peckish, and lowish blood glucose before lunch, and you add in exercise, it might trigger the dump...

I find that my insulin resistance/carb tolerance is at its lowest in the mornings - so that is the meal when I never have carbs. Protein and fat only. I'm usually lower BG 2 hrs after brekkie than before - not to say you would be, but protein and fat wouldn't cause such a rise and glycogen storage. Maybe worth an experiment?

Hope that helps.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@viv k
Aerobic exercise doesn't normally increase or make you release insulin.(unless there are a lot of stress hormones about.) It has the opposite effect ie of suppressing insulin because glucose can get into cells without insulin during exercise
There are two types of glucose transporters that allow glucose to enter skeletal and muscle cells, one is signalled to work with insulin present and the other with muscle contraction) They can work additively ie with both insulin and muscle contraction at the same time. That's the reason T1s have to be careful. They can't stop already injected insulin . They may have to decrease insulin and therefore increase blood glucose before exercise to prevent hypos .
I don't take very much insulin and produce next to none of my own. Exercise can drop my glucose like a stone,
I'm just going to do some my level just taken was 210mg/dl ( blame my husband we had a small disagreement and this sent my levels high; those pesky stress hormones. I'll tell you what it is when I return.
edit 29 min later 76mg/dl. Just swimming, breast stroke with some intervals of 'aquarobics' actually hopping and joggling about to try to be a bit more active. Gave up when the roofer returned from lunch as I didn't want to add to the local gossip about what 'the English' get up to.

Ps exercise does decrease insulin resistance over time but that's by different mechanisms (increase of muscle so for storage of glycogen, reduction in lipids around the organs hence letting the messages get through at the right time ie stopping your liver providing glucose when there is already more in the blood than is needed) The number of the glucose transporters also increases when you exercise more; if you need more glucose in the cell then the means to get it in increases.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi Brunneria & Phoenix, thanks for the useful information.:)

I tested before doing my stair walking today

Fasting 8, 2 hours after breakfast 8.8, 4 hours after breakfast and prior to exercise 6.6, after exercise (& no food) 7.3

Only one day, but certainly showed me that there must be some liver dump there. I'm trying to think of ways to re-organise work to maybe be able to exercise an hour after lunch which would be way more useful for blood sugar control.

I'll do a bit more reading about the muscle contraction mechanism for glucose entering muscle cells. That has helped answer my question, in that the fact that intensive exercise can bring my sugars down, doesn't therefore mean that I must only be insulin resistant. I could be type 1.5 and I will try and see my doctor about it.
 
Glad we helped!

I'm not a great exerciser, but from what I have learned on this forum, glucose dumps and BG level changes due to exercise is very complex.

Very simplified: steady, gentle exercise has a lowering effect on BG., while challenging, intense exercise raises BG in the short term (dumpage). Both types have a lowering effect in the longer term. All of that is variable, depending on fitness level, intensity, duration, etc.

:)
 
Back
Top