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Interesting report on insulin and weight loss
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<blockquote data-quote="Oldvatr" data-source="post: 2462151" data-attributes="member: 196898"><p>One other thing I discovered in the research papers using the glycemic insulin clamp GTT was that one paper found that the levels of insulin output response was more marked, had a sharper risetime, and longer decay time when the glucose was given in an oral test as compared to the intravenous infusion test. So the OGTT was better thsn the IVGTT for finding maximum secretion rates. This is why the arginine was needed to block the output of insulin to give a flood release effect when the arginine stopped. The researchers noted this difference, and considered thst the orsl metabolic route activates other glucose transporters other than just GLUT2 (there are at least 13 others) and also activates more incretin proteins such as GLP-1 and sulfonyl urea which happens in the normal real world.</p><p></p><p>So the insulin clamp is not reflecting real life and is an artificial construct to force a condition. It is the scientific way since an OGTT is difficult to control and repeat.</p><p></p><p>The other thing I note was that when arginine bolus is used, then the maximum insulin production mechanism only kicks into gear when the bgl rises to 16 mmol/l or above. The level Roy Taylor used was just over 10 mmol/l in the clamp which is the uusual (natural) trigger when carb causes the glucose step, but is held back by the arginine so the beta cells do not produce a proper response at all.</p><p></p><p>What I have found casts serious doubt on the claims being made for the Newcastle Diet in respect of Beta Cell recovery and GTT response characteristics.</p><p></p><p>The Diet itself is a useful and convenient method to lose some serious weight and to remove ectopic fat from the pancreas and liver, as demonstrated by the MRI scans. The diet seems to reboot the system, and if a proper maintenance regime is used for follow on, then the effect of the diet does seem to last a reasonable time. It is in effect just a short sharp shock to reset the metabolism and should be viewed as such. More work will be needed to unravel the full effects on the pancreas since the tests do not IMHO reflect real life events in vivo.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Oldvatr, post: 2462151, member: 196898"] One other thing I discovered in the research papers using the glycemic insulin clamp GTT was that one paper found that the levels of insulin output response was more marked, had a sharper risetime, and longer decay time when the glucose was given in an oral test as compared to the intravenous infusion test. So the OGTT was better thsn the IVGTT for finding maximum secretion rates. This is why the arginine was needed to block the output of insulin to give a flood release effect when the arginine stopped. The researchers noted this difference, and considered thst the orsl metabolic route activates other glucose transporters other than just GLUT2 (there are at least 13 others) and also activates more incretin proteins such as GLP-1 and sulfonyl urea which happens in the normal real world. So the insulin clamp is not reflecting real life and is an artificial construct to force a condition. It is the scientific way since an OGTT is difficult to control and repeat. The other thing I note was that when arginine bolus is used, then the maximum insulin production mechanism only kicks into gear when the bgl rises to 16 mmol/l or above. The level Roy Taylor used was just over 10 mmol/l in the clamp which is the uusual (natural) trigger when carb causes the glucose step, but is held back by the arginine so the beta cells do not produce a proper response at all. What I have found casts serious doubt on the claims being made for the Newcastle Diet in respect of Beta Cell recovery and GTT response characteristics. The Diet itself is a useful and convenient method to lose some serious weight and to remove ectopic fat from the pancreas and liver, as demonstrated by the MRI scans. The diet seems to reboot the system, and if a proper maintenance regime is used for follow on, then the effect of the diet does seem to last a reasonable time. It is in effect just a short sharp shock to reset the metabolism and should be viewed as such. More work will be needed to unravel the full effects on the pancreas since the tests do not IMHO reflect real life events in vivo. [/QUOTE]
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