Is Fructose as inert as they claim?

[ickihun]

Generally, I think carbs and sugars get converted to glucose in the blood, which gets stored as glycogen and water in cells and muscles throughtout the body, not really as visceral fat. It is the fats in the form of trigs that gets attached to the liver and internal adipose tissue that adorns our expanding waistlines. So both contribute to weight gain and girth, but are stored differently and used differently. If Fructose metabolises into trigs rather than glucose, then, yes, fructose will tend to increase visceral fat. Remember that table sugar i.e. sucrose, contains 50% fructose anyway.

Thanks @Oldvatr . I'm glad to be put right. Your explaination should be included in daisy1s intro as to eliminate confusion. I know some newees overcome so might not absorb but worth having it on record. I keep confusing it and I'm an oldee. It is very much appreciated in black and white. Can we have it added?

 

[ickihun]

I think the UK doesnt have the High Corn Sugars in their foods? Isnt it banned?

About the apple: my take on it is that naturally ocurring sugars, in small quantities, dont have the same effect as the processed sugars found in all sorts of food where they would not have been found in nature. It is the addition of these sugars, in everything possible, that is exacerbating the diabetes problem. And I am one of the ones whose bs spikes when an artificial sweetner is used instead - dont know why.

Your gut telling your pancreas to expect sugar but no sugar comes so liver dumps?

 

[tim2000s]

It is the fats in the form of trigs that gets attached to the liver and internal adipose tissue that adorns our expanding waistlines.

Let's just make sure we are clear here though.Triglycerides are one of the ways that fat is transported around the human body for use as energy. They are also stored in the liver (rather like glycogen is for glucose) and when the body requires free fatty acids as an energy source, glucagon triggers the liver to undertake the conversion.

In the context of NAFL, the liver is holding too much triglyceride in the hope that it is needed as an energy source.

 

[Oldvatr]

I think the UK doesnt have the High Corn Sugars in their foods? Isnt it banned?

About the apple: my take on it is that naturally ocurring sugars, in small quantities, dont have the same effect as the processed sugars found in all sorts of food where they would not have been found in nature. It is the addition of these sugars, in everything possible, that is exacerbating the diabetes problem. And I am one of the ones whose bs spikes when an artificial sweetner is used instead - dont know why.

No its not banned, and is available for sale from UK suppliers. It is not made in the UK, so has to be imported.
According to Aunty Beeb:
A common ingredient in the US, corn syrup is made by adding enzymes to corn starch, which turns it into a thick syrup of dextrose, maltose and/or glucose. It comes in two flavours – dark and light. Light corn syrup is very sweet, like golden syrup while dark corn syrup is similar in flavour to molasses. Corn syrup is used widely in the food industry for sweetening soft drinks, alcohol, ketchup and pickles.

Note that in UK we see it labelled as either Maltose, fructose or Dextrose, or its sugar alcohol equivelents Malitol, Sorbitol, Xylitol etc. This is because it is further processed into liqud form for direct manufacture in process assembly lines by high turnout foodstuff producers and soft drinks makers, simply because it is more stable, transports well, and is concentrated, so cheaper.

A local baby food manufacturer had a Hazmat area specifically set up to receive, process and dilute these concentrates, which are highly corrosive and toxic until diluted, with strict handling by robot arms and armoured booths to prevent exposure to the chemicals that turn magically into orange juice for babies when water is added. It is very dangerous, and even breathing the fumes is dangerous.

UK manufacturers often use cane syrup and molasses instead, since we have traditional sources available, and we inport most of our corn for eating, not HFCS making which would make it very expensive in UK. HFCS does not transport well and would not be competitive to import in bulk. Thats why US uses it, its dirt cheap there.

 

[Oldvatr]

I think the UK doesnt have the High Corn Sugars in their foods? Isnt it banned?

About the apple: my take on it is that naturally ocurring sugars, in small quantities, dont have the same effect as the processed sugars found in all sorts of food where they would not have been found in nature. It is the addition of these sugars, in everything possible, that is exacerbating the diabetes problem. And I am one of the ones whose bs spikes when an artificial sweetner is used instead - dont know why.

There is recent research that seems to show that artificial sweetners will trigger the release of an enzyme Amylase in the saliva, that triggers the gut to expect a meal in the same way that sugar works normally. So tummy expects carbs to process, and this speeds up metabolism of any carbs in the system, even if you only suck on a saccarin tab with no bounty to follow,

This may explain a surge in glucose from the stored glucose stores since the Amylase is also triggering insulin from the pancreas, but the body says -Wait a sec, theres no carbs in the gut, so dump from stores in the body. It is this flood of insulin that is why artificial sweetners are considered bad choice for diabetics. It is reckoned to add (cause?) Insulin Resistance in T2D

 

[tim2000s]

It is this flood of insulin that is why artificial sweetners are considered bad choice for diabetics. It is reckoned to add (cause?) Insulin Resistance in T2D

Except that nearly all studies have shown this to be a myth for most sweeteners, with maybe the exception of Acesulfame (where it still hasn't been demonstrated that oral ingestion of the sweetener has an effect):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1946186
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2182973
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9734727
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19221011
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21245879

https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...ulin-release/FD76542E4E27715F92DD2B0BCF31483E

I can't say that I've seen the Amylase research though.

 

[serenity648]

There is recent research that seems to show that artificial sweetners will trigger the release of an enzyme Amylase in the saliva, that triggers the gut to expect a meal in the same way that sugar works normally. So tummy expects carbs to process, and this speeds up metabolism of any carbs in the system, even if you only suck on a saccarin tab with no bounty to follow,

This may explain a surge in glucose from the stored glucose stores since the Amylase is also triggering insulin from the pancreas, but the body says -Wait a sec, theres no carbs in the gut, so dump from stores in the body. It is this flood of insulin that is why artificial sweetners are considered bad choice for diabetics. It is reckoned to add (cause?) Insulin Resistance in T2D

thank you for this, and your previous post.

 

[Oldvatr]

Let's just make sure we are clear here though.Triglycerides are one of the ways that fat is transported around the human body for use as energy. They are also stored in the liver (rather like glycogen is for glucose) and when the body requires free fatty acids as an energy source, glucagon triggers the liver to undertake the conversion.

In the context of NAFL, the liver is holding too much triglyceride in the hope that it is needed as an energy source.

The storage of fat on the form of trigs requires special cells called adipocytes. In the case of excess fat needing storage, the body simply builds and fills more adipocytes, and there is no pre designed upper limit on this process. BUT once an adipocyte is created from a spare stem cell then it cannot be reversed, and this is why adipose tissue is so difficult to shift, Ketosis only empties the cell contents, and refills them when more fat becomes available. So our spare tyres inflate, deflate, but NEVER disappear. Cellulite is a form of adipose tissue, and can only be removed by vacuming. Not so for the glucose stores which can be any cell in the body apart from brain cells or nerve cells. The normal place is muscle tissue, which can be deleted by fasting.
The body can store about 100g of glycogen in the liver, and 500g in the muscles, but then the store becones full, and excess is secreted via the kidneys. Excess fat creates its own elbow room as required.

Adipose tissue congregates around the vital organs (heart, liver, kidneys, stomach, gut) and so is called visceral fat since it is protecting the vitals. Adipose tissue also exists in other areas of the body as subcutaneous fat, and on the back as brown fat that acts as a built in heater. These secondary clusters tend to naturally deplete with age, but not by diet or exercise.

So as I get older, my hair migrates downward, and my adipose tissue migrates to my midriff, and I feel the cold more keenly. Ketosis may reduce my beergut temporarily, but the flab remains.

An interesting article on Fructose is available:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/777692

 

[Oldvatr]

Except that nearly all studies have shown this to be a myth for most sweeteners, with maybe the exception of Acesulfame (where it still hasn't been demonstrated that oral ingestion of the sweetener has an effect):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1946186
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2182973
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9734727
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19221011
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21245879

https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...ulin-release/FD76542E4E27715F92DD2B0BCF31483E

I can't say that I've seen the Amylase research though.

Sorry Tim, these studies were on very small populations of healthy individuals, and none of them were diabetic. Only 2 measured insulin response, and one of these only one was oral, the other appears to be directly piped into the stomach thereby missing the amylase saliva step completely. They also appear to be mainly neurological studies, not physiological and none showed where the fructose went or what it converted into.

One conclusion was that appetite was not affected - Whoopie! Another showed that none of the participants ended up climbing the wall or going doolally. Maybe good for curing ADHD though?

I am not impressed by any of these studies.

 

[tim2000s]

@Oldvatr Can you please post a link to your study discussing Amylase triggers? I'm not particularly impressed with that one yet, either!

 

[ickihun]

One of the occupational hazard to call centres are drying up salivary glands. Being forced to talk constantly.
Amylase enzyme produced by gland (as well as pancreas) might also be affected? Stress makes me talk too much.
Remember Amylase only reacts to starches. I'd also like to see any medical proof of Amylase being sole culprit but we might have a while to wait for that one.
General opinion is sweeteners safer than sugar. Just like fructose safer than sugar cane. Not.

 

[Oldvatr]

@Oldvatr Can you please post a link to your study discussing Amylase triggers? I'm not particularly impressed with that one yet, either!

The link was already posted on the forum, bur god knows where. There are several on PUBMED that show that artificial sweetners DO affect bgl or gut flora, and I can post a similar list to yours, but again, the samples are small. There are 2 that show that a GTT is made worse by pre loading with either water or a sweetened water drink, and these do apparently show an increased insulin level, but there is insufficient detail of the test method to say if the test is actually valid. I found several just by googling "artificial sweetner and insulin", but I too was not impressed by the standard of PUBMED articles nowadays.

 

[Oldvatr]

@Oldvatr Can you please post a link to your study discussing Amylase triggers? I'm not particularly impressed with that one yet, either!

I think I ended up on a website that detailed recent (2016) research findings on the endocrine system in humans that discussed this issue. I think it was University of Michigan but I cannot get onto the same website again. Every time I search Amylase I end up discussing corn starch and HFCS since Amylase is used in the production of same. I think I was researching the endocrine system at the time. Will try again tomorrow since this is an area that interests me. Normally we concentrate on the pancreas, but this research paper was discussing the role of the gut biome in triggering metabolism processes, and how these can be disrupted by deficiencies (i.e. lactase deficiency causing lactose intolerance )