Is the Harcombe Diet ok for diabetics?

[Foxtrot]

I recently came across and very interesting lady in Wales called Zoe Harcombe who provided an extremely compelling argument for a particular type of low carb diet, which seems to be quite successful and deals with many bizarre myths.

Find it here: http://theharcombediet.com/

Comments and advice welcome.

 

[pianoman]

Hi Foxtrot. I can't comment directly on her diet as I have not read it. I did find an article quoting her writing a useful read (despite it being in the Daily Mail). It dovetailed nicely with much of what I have been finding out for myself in recent years, regarding diet and health. My advice is to read around and make up your own mind as to what approach works best for you. Good luck

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1325453/Everything-thought-knew-food-WRONG.html

If you have internet time for a podcast (or you can download the file to listen at your leisure) here she is an interview on Jimmy Moore's The Livin' La Vida Low Carb Show... http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes/2923/zoe-harcombe-episode-427/

 

[noblehead]

Foxtrot,

Interesting as Zoe may be her dietary advice is questionable!

Nigel

 

[pianoman]

Surely anybody's advice is questionable? That does not automatically make it wrong Questions are one of the ways in which we make progress. What is outside the cave? What is over that mountain? What is across that sea?

 

[borofergie]

I read pianoman's Daily Mail link (yes, just clicking on it made me feel dirty).

The article seems to be a précis of the Taubes books. Does she have an original angle on this, or is she just trying to make a buck on the Taubes bandwagon?

 

[pianoman]

I believe she has a book (mentioned in the article) several in fact, and a website where she describes her 20 years of research. I don't think that making a living out of health advice is a new idea... if we discount everyone who does so, just for that reason, I'm not sure who would be left?

There does seem to be plenty of overlap with what Taubes (and increasingly others) describe. That tends to happen with good science. Do we dismiss all the evolutionary biologists as just jumping on Darwin's bandwagon?

It's horses for courses: I changed my own diet (what I eat) after reading Taubes book -- which did not contain a diet plan.. but I am aware that some others prefer to have a formal diet plan to follow.

As I suggested to the OP there are sources to read and make up your own mind. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to think.

 

[borofergie]

Do we dismiss all the evolutionary biologists as just jumping on Darwin's bandwagon?

No, not at all, as long as they don't try and claim credit for Darwin's idea, and add a little something into the mix. Otherwise they are generally not worth reading.

I didn't realise this was an actual diet, rather than an expose like Taubes'.

It's nice to see that the "carbs make you fat" message is hitting the mainstream media.

 

[pianoman]

No worries... I think she was in the nutrition business before Gary Taubes, but gives him all due credit for his work -- she is a big fan of his

All negatives to the Daily Mail aside, I agree that it is telling to see this message getting out there to a wider audience.

The OP asked about The Harcombe Diet and although I have not seen it, I did recall the news media article and the interview on Jimmy Moore's Low Carb show. Worth a listen if you can, even if you disagree with the ideas... I'm a firm believer in staying open-minded to all sides of any discussion -- otherwise, like I said above, we might all still be living in caves, eating rocks :wink:

 

[josie38]

[/quote]It's nice to see that the "carbs make you fat" message is hitting the mainstream media.[/quote]

I always thought that it was the amout eaten not actually eating them :? :? :?

Maybe im just one of the "stupid" ones :roll: :roll:

 

[pianoman]

Sorry... am I missing something? Who said anything about stupid ones? :!:

 

[phoenix]

Zoe Harcombe is a slim lady , I understand that until recently she was a vegetarian and has only recently started eating meat again.
This is how her daily diet was described a neswpaper article in Oct 2010,
“I have porridge with plain oats every morning,” she says.

“For lunch, I have a massive cheese salad with four types of cheese, fennel, beetroot, alfafa sprouts, dark leaves and loads of olive oil and I stuff in lots of salad leaves for plenty of filler.

“And for dinner, I’ll have something like a butternut squash curry with brown rice.

“There’s absolutely no excuse for ready meals – who hasn’t got time to put a pork chop under the grill or make a pasta sauce with wholewheat pasta?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/healt ... -27400240/
The rest of the article describes her recent ideas in her new book. They obviously owe a lot to G Taubes . However her arguments about eating lots of meat, not eating fibre etc ldon't seem to match with her own daily diet .Presumably this was the type of food that has kept her weighing 8 stone for the last 15 years. (and its full of fibre, veggies, whole grains and no meat!)

Pianoman:

I'm a firm believer in staying open-minded to all sides of any discussion -- otherwise, like I said above, we might all still be living in caves, eating rocks

You might like to read the blogpost on 11th August by Stephan Guyenet,'The Carbohydrate Hypothesis of Obesity: a Critical Examination.' ( warning :it will take a long time to get throught the comments and follow up posts !) Stephan is a prominent paleoblogger but he also is a researcher at the Univ of Washington studying the neurobiology of lipid regulation. Stephan is not the first to challenge Taubes but at last someone has generated a proper debate

 

[pianoman]

You might like to read the blogpost on 11th August by Stephan Guyenet,'The Carbohydrate Hypothesis of Obesity: a Critical Examination. ...

I have read it thank you. I'd encourage others to do so, along with reading Taubes, Harcombe etc...As I said, I try to keep an open-mind. I am still convinced that it is the increase in processed/refined/concentrated carbohydrates (possibly mostly Fructose) in the "Western" diet that is the underlying cause of many of our recent ills -- it is more about the quality of what we eat than the quantity... more about biochemistry than behaviour.

I don't much care who provides the evidence-based proof: Taubes may not be 100% correct, Nor Lustig, nor Guyenet, nor Harcombe etc... I'm not interested in ad hominem type attacks on these individuals or their personalities but I am open to substantial, intellectually-honest discussion of what they present.

As in the WalesOnline article you linked

...at its essence, the message is simple, we need a return to ‘real food’ and when it comes to what we put into our bodies, ‘nature knows best’.

Are any of these researchers disagreeing about that message?

Foxtrot.. to repeat "My advice is to read around and make up your own mind as to what approach works best for you. Good luck."

 

[borofergie]

It's nice to see that the "carbs make you fat" message is hitting the mainstream media.

I always thought that it was the amout eaten not actually eating them :? :? :?

Maybe im just one of the "stupid" ones :roll: :roll:

I'm not sure I understand this either. I wasn't trying to be pejorative, just trying to use a generic label for Taubes like ideas on diet. Perhaps I should have written "it's carbohydates not dietry fat that makes you obese".

 

[pianoman]

I mentioned Robert H. Lustig, MD, UCSF Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology above... for anyone not yet familiar I'd recommend this presentation...

[youtube]dBnniua6-oM[/youtube]

Here is his bio: http://chc.ucsf.edu/coast/faculty_lustig.htm it begins...

Dr. Lustig is a nationally-recognized authority in the field of neuroendocrinology, with a specific emphasis on the regulation of energy balance by the central nervous system. He is currently investigating the contribution of biochemical, neural, hormonal, and genetic influences in the expression of the current obesity epidemic both in children and adults.

He also does not agree 100% with Gary Taubes and challenges him on some points but they see eye-to-eye enough to have discussed co-authoring a book at one stage.

The biochemistry in Dr Lustig's presentation is peer-reviewed and in the broad stokes I'd say he agrees with same basic message as Zoe Harcombe -- eat real food.

If you do not have the time for Lustig's hour and an half presentation (although I'd recommend you find time) there is a summary version here (about 11 minutes) by Sean Croxton from UndergroundWellness...

[youtube]tdMjKEncojQ[/youtube]

 

[noblehead]

Looking at the Wales Online article Phoenix posted Zoe seems to contradict herself in parts! :?

I like her breakfast choice of a good bowl of wholesome porridge oats, she would do well to include some seeds such as pumpkin seeds and some low-carb berries, I put a small handful (around 20) of blueberries in mine together with some low-fat yogurt....

Nigel

 

[Foxtrot]

I'll been doing my own research by way of practical tests on my own body (there's nothing like being personally committed, eh!) and I have to say that I'm finding the minimising of starchy or Low GI carbs in favour of meat, fish, eggs, cheese, nuts and seeds. (I would categorise my diet as lowish carbs, probably 80g to 150g per day but no more) a relatively easy diet to follow as I love meat and my recent trip to a sunday carvery saw me have meat, meat, meat with some more meat, a few veggies and no roasties! My idea of heaven...

I am finding my gradual weight loss (up to 2lb per week) very encouraging and I do feel full for longer and have more energy.

So, for me, this lifestyle change is going to stay with me for the future until I get to my target weight (20lb to go!), or at least close to it.

I have to say that I am always concerned that initiatives like

5 a day

are purely marketing led and may not have the health benefits that are embued on them.

Anyway, I would encourage other diet 'experimenters' to report their practical findings as evidence based experience is the only way forward.

Cheers all, Foxtrot.

 

[phoenix]

I have to say that I am always concerned that initiatives like 5 a dayare purely marketing led and may not have the health benefits that are embued on them.

The origin of 5 a day isn't a marketing ploy but the Uks response to the World Health aim of a minimum of 400gs of fruit and veg a day . The WHO looked at a great deal of evidence that showed that people who have diets including larger amounts of fruit and veg are less likely to develop a variety of chronic diseases.

Low fruit and vegetable intake is among the top 10 risk factors contributing to attributable mortality, according to evidence presented in World Health Report 2003. Fruits and vegetables as part of the daily diet could help prevent major noncommunicable diseases (NCD). Moreover, eating a variety of vegetables and fruits clearly ensures an adequate intake of most micronutrients, dietary fibres and a host of essential non-nutrient substances.

The 400g has been interpreted in the UK ,Germany, Spain, Poland and many other countries as 5 portions of 80g each. Some countries adopted different numbers (with either smaller portion sizes or the aim of a greater than the minimum intake; France adopted 10 par Jour, Canada 5-10 a day, Denmark 6 om dagen and Japan vegefru-7
http://www.who.int/dietphysicalactivity ... index.html

 

[pianoman]

... The WHO looked at a great deal of evidence that showed that people who have diets including larger amounts of fruit and veg are less likely to develop a variety of chronic diseases. ...

Is that because they ate larger amounts of fruit and vegetables, or because the kind of people who eat (and can afford) larger amounts of fruits and vegetables tend to be more health conscious anyway? Socio-economics also has a strong correlation with health and disease.

I'm sceptical that we can only be healthy by eating regular and significant amounts of fresh produce: because fruit and vegetables were not available for many months of the year for many populations; including my ancestors who grew up in ice-age Europe... or as recently as Victorian England (or even 50 years ago when I was a boy) where there was little to no refrigeration, no home freezers, no container ships or jet-airliners moving and storing fresh produce around the globe year-round.