Is There A Fourth Macro Group Of Nutrients?

[SaladDaze]

Like many others here, for me having diabetes T2 meant cutting down on the carbohydrates and going on a LCHF diet. So, cut the carbs, plenty of protein and plenty of fat. No problem, it has gone well for me, except for one thing.

Perhaps as a result of that LCHF diet my cholesterol, which has been borderline/high in the past, went over again. So doc says cut out the fat. Pate, cheese, red-meat, charcuterie, dairy etc. etc.

OK well I've still got the protein to fall back on. Tinned mackerel, tuna, chicken here we come, plus the (now lower fat version of) soul bread that I make, with protein powder as the main ingerdient.

Then last tuesday, bang! My first experience of the joy of renal colic caused by a kidney stone. I think it was annoyed at having been jiggled the night before when I was dutifully getting some exercise in on my rowing machine. After getting back from the hospital and recovering with the help of pain-killers I did a bit of research to get to know my new lodger a bit better and how I might prevent it from asking friends around to party. Among the recommendations to avoid kidney stones is to cut down on protein.

So with that I have the full house! Apparently I should be on a low-carb-low-protein-low-fat diet. Enough to drive one to drink ... were that permitted.

 

[Rustytypin]

There is always water, is't there???.......

 

[Indy51]

Kidney stones can be exacerbated by high oxalate content of foods - you might want to look into the low oxalate diet.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Why are you worried about cholesterol?

 

[SaladDaze]

Kidney stones can be exacerbated by high oxalate content of foods - you might want to look into the low oxalate diet.

It did happen about three weeks after getting into a habit of buying and eating a bag of salted peanuts on the way home. Apparently peanuts are high oxylate and salt is to be avoided. So that little pleasure is suspended for now. Also, for months now celery, high in oxylates, has often been a major ingredient of my salads, so that will will be off the menu for now as well.

 

[SaladDaze]

Evidently, it depends on the kind of kidney stone you have:

https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/urologic-diseases/kidney-stones/eating-diet-nutrition

The most common, calcium-oxylate, it seems. A useful link. Thank you. I notice it says to avoid animal protein *especially organ meat*. Perhaps I shouldn't have had that big plate of liver and onion for lunch yesterday.

 

[SaladDaze]

There is always water, is't there???.......

You got the nail on the head. That's very much recommend to avoid stones forming. I've never been a huge drinker of plain water. I must start to carry a bottle around to remind myself to drink more.

 

[Guzzler]

Dietary fats have little influence on cholesterol. Cholesterol is vital to life, it is made in the liver and even if you could cut every scrap of of fat from your diet the body would just make up the shortfall. It is so vital that the body does not leave it to chance by risking it to a diet only source.
Check out your lipid panel, Total Cholesterol is meaningless and it is the breakdown of numbers within that is important.

 

[ickihun]

Like many others here, for me having diabetes T2 meant cutting down on the carbohydrates and going on a LCHF diet. So, cut the carbs, plenty of protein and plenty of fat. No problem, it has gone well for me, except for one thing.

Perhaps as a result of that LCHF diet my cholesterol, which has been borderline/high in the past, went over again. So doc says cut out the fat. Pate, cheese, red-meat, charcuterie, dairy etc. etc.

OK well I've still got the protein to fall back on. Tinned mackerel, tuna, chicken here we come, plus the (now lower fat version of) soul bread that I make, with protein powder as the main ingerdient.

Then last tuesday, bang! My first experience of the joy of renal colic caused by a kidney stone. I think it was annoyed at having been jiggled the night before when I was dutifully getting some exercise in on my rowing machine. After getting back from the hospital and recovering with the help of pain-killers I did a bit of research to get to know my new lodger a bit better and how I might prevent it from asking friends around to party. Among the recommendations to avoid kidney stones is to cut down on protein.

So with that I have the full house! Apparently I should be on a low-carb-low-protein-low-fat diet. Enough to drive one to drink ... were that permitted.

Starvation diet then?
I only lose weight on a high protein (I have no kidney issues) low fat, low carb diet.... ever.

 

[bulkbiker]

Perhaps as a result of that LCHF diet my cholesterol, which has been borderline/high in the past, went over again. So doc says cut out the fat. Pate, cheese, red-meat, charcuterie, dairy etc. etc.

Sounds like your doc needs a bit of cholesterol education.
If you want to help him (or blind him with science) have a read of www.cholesterolcode.com your fears may be somewhat muted by it.

 

[Flora123]

Sounds like your doc needs a bit of cholesterol education.
If you want to help him (or blind him with science) have a read of www.cholesterolcode.com your fears may be somewhat muted by it.

There is also a great video someone posted here. Just watched it this morning.

 

[SaladDaze]

Why are you worried about cholesterol?

I don''t know too much about Cholesterol yet. I've barely memorised which are the good and bad types. Readings over the last 6 months, with (normal range)

03/05/2018
Cholesterol: 223 mg/dL (125-200)
HDL Cholesterol: 52 mg/dL (40-60)
LDL Cholesterol: 150 mg/dL (0-160)
Triglycerides: 103 mg/dL (50-150)

22/05/2018
Cholesterol: 209 mg/dL (125-200)
HDL Cholesterol: 59 mg/dL (40-60)
LDL Cholesterol: 139 mg/dL (0-160)
Triglycerides: 95 mg/dL (50-150)

Those figures don't seem far out of bounds, but it was enough for my doctor to scrawl on the back of the results...

"CHOLESTEROL

NO:

• Cheeses
• Charcuterie
• Pastries/Cakes
• Red Meat
• Pate

DIABETES

NO:

• Bread
• Potatoes
• Pastries/Cakes"

I guess I have a bit of research to do to educate myself about cholesterol and perhaps apply some nuance to the advice.

 

[SaladDaze]

Sounds like your doc needs a bit of cholesterol education.
If you want to help him (or blind him with science) have a read of www.cholesterolcode.com your fears may be somewhat muted by it.

Thanks. I'll take a look at the link. I replied to NoCrbs4Me above with my cholesterol readings which seem high, but not so much. The link looks interesting. I shall begin my voyage of discovery!.

 

[bulkbiker]

Thanks. I'll take a look at the link. I replied to NoCrbs4Me above with my cholesterol readings which seem high, but not so much. The link looks interesting. I shall begin my voyage of discovery!.

I'd certainly agree with the diabetes list but would add a number of things like fruit, rice, root veg, any grains and legumes.
By missing those your trigs to HDL ratio should improve which is currently thought to be the important one the rest is just noise and irrelevant noise at that.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

I don''t know too much about Cholesterol yet. I've barely memorised which are the good and bad types. Readings over the last 6 months, with (normal range)

03/05/2018
Cholesterol: 223 mg/dL (125-200)
HDL Cholesterol: 52 mg/dL (40-60)
LDL Cholesterol: 150 mg/dL (0-160)
Triglycerides: 103 mg/dL (50-150)

22/05/2018
Cholesterol: 209 mg/dL (125-200)
HDL Cholesterol: 59 mg/dL (40-60)
LDL Cholesterol: 139 mg/dL (0-160)
Triglycerides: 95 mg/dL (50-150)

Those figures don't seem far out of bounds, but it was enough for my doctor to scrawl on the back of the results...

"CHOLESTEROL

NO:

• Cheeses
• Charcuterie
• Pastries/Cakes
• Red Meat
• Pate

DIABETES

NO:

• Bread
• Potatoes
• Pastries/Cakes"

I guess I have a bit of research to do to educate myself about cholesterol and perhaps apply some nuance to the advice.

I'd be ok with those numbers. I certainly wouldn't cut out meat and cheese from my diet based on them.

 

[Seacrow]

Nah, for the full house you need gastroparesis too. That wants a low fibre, high sugar diet.

 

[Antje77]

The fourth macro is alcohol. But I'm afraid that isn't the best solution either
Personally, I wouldn't worry about the cholesterol, at least for now, and go back to lchf.
Hope your stone will behave itself!

 

[SaladDaze]

Nah, for the full house you need gastroparesis too. That wants a low fibre, high sugar diet.

Aaargh!