Is this rapid weight loss in ketosis normal?

[tim2000s]

@nigelho there effectively are two sources of ketones. Eating a carb restricted diet which forces your body to burn fat for energy, known as nutritional ketosis. Then there is the bad type caused due to lack of insulin. This is different and the other symptom is high blood sugars. If your bg level is above fourteen, typically you do not have enough insulin in your system to regulate fatty acid production from your cells, which causes ketones. Two many ketones (as per the posted chart) makes your blood acidic, leading to DKA. Typically in nutritional ketosis the injected insulin is managing the ketone levels safely.

 

[Alisonjane10]

Hi everyone,

Lots of posts to my question, & some great advice/education from experienced forum members. I'm pleased that Daibell has explained the difference between ketosis & ketoacidosis. I panicked the first time I carried out a random test using ketostix & saw I had 4.0 moderate ketones present. But in the absence of high blood glucose, I learnt this was nutritional ketosis and is the aim when eating a ketogenic diet. But I only learnt that via the advice and information I got from forum members. I honestly don't know how I'd manage without you good people. I suppose I'd constantly be on the phone to my GP & DNS!

I talked things through with my hubby this morning, & took a closer look at my diet. Turns out that my carb & calorie intake was extremely low, which is why I've lost weight so rapidly. My carb intake over the past month turned out to be less than 5g daily, and my calories half what I should be eating. I made the mistake of not eating enough fat either. So, generally I just wasn't being sensible. I had sf jelly & double cream last night, which I thoroughly enjoyed. I'm going to increase my carb intake gradually as I don't want to have any sudden BG spikes. I'm also introducing bigger portions & having more fat...cream in my tea again, 97% meat sausages (which I love) & making sure my calorie intake is realistic whilst still allowing me to lose weight, all be it at 1-2LB a week.

I guess it's very easy to make mistakes, or just go to extremes when you badly desire something. In my case, my brutal diet in an effort to control my diabetes. A wise member advised moderation in everything. SO RIGHT, and my new philosophy.

Thank you to all the kind forum members who've responded to my post, and who have given me insight through their experience and wisdom. I'm very grateful.

Ali. X

 

[AndBreathe]

I don't understand how you'd get a BSs of 5.5mmols and have ketones of 4.0. I thought ketones occurred in the system when your BSs were over 14mmols and higher. My meter also bleeps if I'm over 14mmols to check for ketones.

My belief is Alison is in nutritional ketosis; meaning her body is using fats for fuel. This state does result in blood and urinary ketones, but unless the blood glucose is high, these are not harmful.

High blood scores coupled with higher ketones can signal the vary dangerous ketoacidosis, and should be avoided at all costs.

It would be extremely unusual for a T2 to suffer ketoacidosis, but I daresay, someone, somewhere will have done so.

 

[AndBreathe]

Hi everyone,

Lots of posts to my question, & some great advice/education from experienced forum members. I'm pleased that Daibell has explained the difference between ketosis & ketoacidosis. I panicked the first time I carried out a random test using ketostix & saw I had 4.0 moderate ketones present. But in the absence of high blood glucose, I learnt this was nutritional ketosis and is the aim when eating a ketogenic diet. But I only learnt that via the advice and information I got from forum members. I honestly don't know how I'd manage without you good people. I suppose I'd constantly be on the phone to my GP & DNS!

I talked things through with my hubby this morning, & took a closer look at my diet. Turns out that my carb & calorie intake was extremely low, which is why I've lost weight so rapidly. My carb intake over the past month turned out to be less than 5, and my calories half what I should be eating. I made the mistake of not eating enough fat either. So, generally I just wasn't being sensible. I had sf jelly & double cream last night, which I thoroughly enjoyed. I'm going to increase my carb intake gradually as I don't want to have any sudden BG spikes. I'm also introducing bigger portions & having more fat...cream in my tea again, 97% sausages (which I love) & making sure my calorie intake is realistic whilst still allowing me to lose weight, all be it at 1-2LB a week.

I guess it's very easy to make mistakes, or just go to extremes when you badly desire something. In my case, my brutal diet in an effort to control my diabetes. A wise member advised moderation in everything. SO RIGHT, and my new philosophy.

Thank you to all the kind forum members who've responded to my post, and who have given me insight through their experience and wisdom. I'm very grateful.

Ali. X

I'm curious how you got as low as 5gr of carb, as an average over a month. Were you not eating any veg or dairy at all? I've never tried to, but I think unless I just ate protein and pure fat, I could get that low for any longer than a couple of days. If you weren't eating enough fat....

Glad you've had the radical overhaul. I hope you feel better for it, and get the loss results your looking for.

 

[dawnmc]

Are you eating enough calories or full fat? Have you had your thyroid checked? Due to my metabolism I cannot lose weight on a VLC diet and have lost more weight since beginning treatment for under active thyroid and eating full, as opposed to, low fat foods.

Had everything checked. It's a real bummer. Still not going to give up yet.

 

[Daks]

Your weight loss will likely plateau at some point in the very near future. I was diagnosed on January 26 this year and in that short time I have shed 37lbs, the first couple weeks it came off real fast but has now come to an almost stop, at this point you should set about fine tuning your diet, sounds like you need to eat a bit more, fats, proteins.

 

[Alisonjane10]

I'm curious how you got as low as 5gr of carb, as an average over a month. Were you not eating any veg or dairy at all? I've never tried to, but I think unless I just ate protein and pure fat, I could get that low for any longer than a couple of days. If you weren't eating enough fat....

Glad you've had the radical overhaul. I hope you feel better for it, and get the loss results your looking for.

Hi AndBreathe

I use a book called "Carbs & Cals" which was recommended to me by a forum member when I first joined. It gives visual aids of thousands of foods, portion size & the amount of carbs in that specific food/portion. I completely cut out bread, rice, pasta, cereals, pulses, whole grains & any other obvious source of carbs. I got my daily carb intake primarily from small amounts of Broccoli, bamboo shoots, Asparagus, celery, cabbage, mushrooms, spinach & mixed salad leafs. I based my meals around eggs, cheese, meat, poultry & tinned or fresh fish. All of these are zero carb, and I'd have them with 1 or 2 small portions roasted vegetables from the list above. I'd make an omelette with 2 eggs which I'd fry in butter. I would also use butter when roasting the vegetables. My appetite isn't great, & I rarely finish a meal. I also got bored with the lack of variety & constantly having to think of what I could have to eat. So, I'd skip food & just have a snack instead....beef jerky, slice of ham or small piece of cheese. All zero carb. I didn't want my fat intake to be too high, more like moderate for me. Of course I realise now, as you've said, just how "brutal" this way of eating is. And it took some frank advice for me to question my diet. My hubby has just made me a bulletproof coffee (gorgeous) and I'm having fish fingers with salad, coleslaw & a slice of Burgen bread for tea. Hopefully I'll get my appetite back quickly & won't get so hung up on what I can or can't eat. Moderation is the key I'm told. Thanks so much for the advice & encouraging words. Ali. X

 

[AndBreathe]

Hi AndBreathe

I use a book called "Carbs & Cals" which was recommended to me by a forum member when I first joined. It gives visual aids of thousands of foods, portion size & the amount of carbs in that specific food/portion. I completely cut out bread, rice, pasta, cereals, pulses, whole grains & any other obvious source of carbs. I got my daily carb intake primarily from small amounts of Broccoli, bamboo shoots, Asparagus, celery, cabbage, mushrooms, spinach & mixed salad leafs. I based my meals around eggs, cheese, meat, poultry & tinned or fresh fish. All of these are zero carb, and I'd have them with 1 or 2 small portions roasted vegetables from the list above. I'd make an omelette with 2 eggs which I'd fry in butter. I would also use butter when roasting the vegetables. My appetite isn't great, & I rarely finish a meal. I also got bored with the lack of variety & constantly having to think of what I could have to eat. So, I'd skip food & just have a snack instead....beef jerky, slice of ham or small piece of cheese. All zero carb. I didn't want my fat intake to be too high, more like moderate for me. Of course I realise now, as you've said, just how "brutal" this way of eating is. And it took some frank advice for me to question my diet. My hubby has just made me a bulletproof coffee (gorgeous) and I'm having fish fingers with salad, coleslaw & a slice of Burgen bread for tea. Hopefully I'll get my appetite back quickly & won't get so hung up on what I can or can't eat. Moderation is the key I'm told. Thanks so much for the advice & encouraging words. Ali. X

I will say, I love vegetables. I always have, so my vegetable portions are always pretty generous, but I can easily get 10gr carb from cabbage, 2 or 3 from leaves or spinach, then there's anything in milk or yogurt you might have.

I know lots of people LCHF using Carbs and Cals almost entirely. It's an extremely useful tool; especially for those who may be struggling to reassess their portion sizes, but for me, I found it useful, for the first couple of weeks to actually weigh what I was eating. That's, in my view, and in my world, completely unsustainable for any more than a short period, if we actually want to enjoy our food, but it did give a clear indication of the portions I actually eat.

Eating too little will stall weight loss, as your body shuts down all but vital functions, over time, so we agree that's not ideal. I also found if I go too low carb, not only didn't I feel quite as well, but my bloods weren't optimal. When I went very low carb, I would get lots of liver dumps (which I can feel happen), and it is possible that over time my HbA1c would go lower than it has done (though I don't need it to), I preferred a bit of quality of life.

This moderation thing...... Moderation isn't something I'm accused of too often, so, I'm not suggesting you go from where you are now to 100gr a day or anything, but notch it up. I would also urge you to address the lack of variety in your diet. If you don't there is an increased chance of you meandering off the wagon. Does your OH low carb with you? If so, how does he feel about his limited choices?

When I started properly lower carbing, I was overseas where my food choices are limited anyway, but I was fine, as my trips, although lasting some months, had periods back in UK. This time around, I'm actually finding some of the restrictions more frustrating, and when we recently booked our return trip to the UK, my immediate thoughts were what was going onto the first shopping list!!

So, I think you have some work to do, to make your coming weeks and months both more enjoyable, and productive. But, it'll be worth it. Get these foundations right, and it's a bit easier to move forward.

 

[Pasha]

Hi AndBreathe

I use a book called "Carbs & Cals" which was recommended to me by a forum member when I first joined. It gives visual aids of thousands of foods, portion size & the amount of carbs in that specific food/portion. I completely cut out bread, rice, pasta, cereals, pulses, whole grains & any other obvious source of carbs. I got my daily carb intake primarily from small amounts of Broccoli, bamboo shoots, Asparagus, celery, cabbage, mushrooms, spinach & mixed salad leafs. I based my meals around eggs, cheese, meat, poultry & tinned or fresh fish. All of these are zero carb, and I'd have them with 1 or 2 small portions roasted vegetables from the list above. I'd make an omelette with 2 eggs which I'd fry in butter. I would also use butter when roasting the vegetables. My appetite isn't great, & I rarely finish a meal. I also got bored with the lack of variety & constantly having to think of what I could have to eat. So, I'd skip food & just have a snack instead....beef jerky, slice of ham or small piece of cheese. All zero carb. I didn't want my fat intake to be too high, more like moderate for me. Of course I realise now, as you've said, just how "brutal" this way of eating is. And it took some frank advice for me to question my diet. My hubby has just made me a bulletproof coffee (gorgeous) and I'm having fish fingers with salad, coleslaw & a slice of Burgen bread for tea. Hopefully I'll get my appetite back quickly & won't get so hung up on what I can or can't eat. Moderation is the key I'm told. Thanks so much for the advice & encouraging words. Ali. X

Maybe use some herbs and spices to tart up the food sometimes. Also planning meals ahead of time can give you something to look forward to.

 

[Alisonjane10]

I will say, I love vegetables. I always have, so my vegetable portions are always pretty generous, but I can easily get 10gr carb from cabbage, 2 or 3 from leaves or spinach, then there's anything in milk or yogurt you might have.

I know lots of people LCHF using Carbs and Cals almost entirely. It's an extremely useful tool; especially for those who may be struggling to reassess their portion sizes, but for me, I found it useful, for the first couple of weeks to actually weigh what I was eating. That's, in my view, and in my world, completely unsustainable for any more than a short period, if we actually want to enjoy our food, but it did give a clear indication of the portions I actually eat.

Eating too little will stall weight loss, as your body shuts down all but vital functions, over time, so we agree that's not ideal. I also found if I go too low carb, not only didn't I feel quite as well, but my bloods weren't optimal. When I went very low carb, I would get lots of liver dumps (which I can feel happen), and it is possible that over time my HbA1c would go lower than it has done (though I don't need it to), I preferred a bit of quality of life.

This moderation thing...... Moderation isn't something I'm accused of too often, so, I'm not suggesting you go from where you are now to 100gr a day or anything, but notch it up. I would also urge you to address the lack of variety in your diet. If you don't there is an increased chance of you meandering off the wagon. Does your OH low carb with you? If so, how does he feel about his limited choices?

When I started properly lower carbing, I was overseas where my food choices are limited anyway, but I was fine, as my trips, although lasting some months, had periods back in UK. This time around, I'm actually finding some of the restrictions more frustrating, and when we recently booked our return trip to the UK, my immediate thoughts were what was going onto the first shopping list!!

So, I think you have some work to do, to make your coming weeks and months both more enjoyable, and productive. But, it'll be worth it. Get these foundations right, and it's a bit easier to move forward.

Hi AndBreathe,

My OH is semi-low carb. He has what I'm having, but more of it, & adds a baked potato, cheese sauce or beans etc. He's become a dab hand at making the most delicious bulletproof coffee too. He's really embraced clean eating & consequently is also losing weight....which he's thrilled about. Can I ask what it feels like when you experience a liver dump. On occasions, & not just in the morning, I get the physical signs of fight or flight. My heart beat increases & i feel like I'm having a surge of adrenalin. It can cause trembling too. Very similar to symptoms of being very anxious. Are these manifestations of a liver dump, and is there any way they can be prevented? Whatever it is that happens to me...they are unpleasant.

 

[AndBreathe]

Hi AndBreathe,

My OH is semi-low carb. He has what I'm having, but more of it, & adds a baked potato, cheese sauce or beans etc. He's become a dab hand at making the most delicious bulletproof coffee too. He's really embraced clean eating & consequently is also losing weight....which he's thrilled about. Can I ask what it feels like when you experience a liver dump. On occasions, & not just in the morning, I get the physical signs of fight or flight. My heart beat increases & i feel like I'm having a surge of adrenalin. It can cause trembling too. Very similar to symptoms of being very anxious. Are these manifestations of a liver dump, and is there any way they can be prevented? Whatever it is that happens to me...they are unpleasant.

Nothing too alarming, but I get a funny feeling at the base of my throat, which clearly isn't where my liver is. Where I became certain of what was happening was when I did a 24hour, on the hour, every hour testing run. I happened upon it, by matching physical feeling and blood score activity, then proved it, more in isolation.

@Andrew Colvin and a few other have also been able to identify their liver dumps too, but we all seem to experience different signs.

Do you have a time it happens? You could the replicate it by managing what you eat accordingly.

 

[Alisonjane10]

Nothing too alarming, but I get a funny feeling at the base of my throat, which clearly isn't where my liver is. Where I became certain of what was happening was when I did a 24hour, on the hour, every hour testing run. I happened upon it, by matching physical feeling and blood score activity, then proved it, more in isolation.

@Andrew Colvin and a few other have also been able to identify their liver dumps too, but we all seem to experience different signs.

Do you have a time it happens? You could the replicate it by managing what you eat accordingly.

It usually happens if I wake up during the night, or if I'm woken suddenly by the telephone etc. During the day, if I'm stressed/worried or tired, I get those awful physical signs I've described. Strangely enough, one of the symptoms of my BG being higher is that my scalp feels tight & prickles. Weird! I always make sure I have a snack before bed to try & avoid DP. Some success there. But, I work shifts, which I think is probably unhelpful when trying to manage diabetes. Inconsistent sleeping pattern can cause chaos with the bodies natural rhythm. I guess this is something else I'll learn to manage better with time, even though I appreciate I'll never be able to stop liver dumps altogether. Best wishes.
Ali.