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Is this too many carbs?

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VikkiB81

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Hi, this is my first post. I'm frustrated as my diabetic nurse keeps trying to push medication on my but I want to do diet control but she offers no support. In September I started with a personal trainer 2 hours a week (I'm quite sedentary) and gave up dairy and overhauled my diet. The results come seeing my diabetic nurse last week was weighing more than last year (even though I'd lost 7lbs since Sept) and my blood sugar being higher. All she suggests is metformin. The heath care assistant says slimming world. I don't understand how a) I've only lost 7lbs when I've been working hard at making changes and b) my blood sugar has increased when I don't eat processed food any more. A typical day for me is: breakfast is my own mixture of oats, bran, almonds, rice flakes and seeds, 40g soaked in water over night then mixed with plain soya yogurt. Lunch is a mini tortilla wrap covered in eggs (2 or 3) mushrooms, caugettes, tomatoes and any veg in the fridge. Dinner is 60g of pasta or rice or 3 new potatoes with lean meat and lots of veg. Sometimes as a snack I will have an apple or orange. A banana before an early morning workout. Is this too many carbs? I don't test my blood either, should I do that? I'm so confused as to what I'm doing wrong. Can someone please help me? Thank you in advance x
 

Hi and welcome

Any idea what your HbA1c numbers have been over the past few tests?
Your food descriptions sound like
a) not very much
b) still fairly carby
Are you restricting food intake and do you have your own meter so you can test blood sugar levels before and after meals to check on what the food is doing to you?
 
Welcome to the forum.

Too many carbs I'm afraid. Consider going low carb or keto. I went keto which is 20g per day. Dropped my hba1c to normal levels within 4 months. Weight loss was a byproduct.
 
....I'm actually a little miffed that someone who wants to go the diet route, gets such bad guidance. You're a T2, Slimming World and the like aren't designed for people with a metabolic disorder. There's more carbs in a single banana than I eat in a day... So, yeah. The non-processed food route is right, yeah, because processed foods often include a lot of carby fillers and such... But there's so much more to it. @bulkbiker has a good point: You don't eat a lot, but what you do eat is, well.. Extremely carby. If I ate what you do, I'd be on insulin right now. Instead, I'm a diet-controlled T2 with numbers safely in the non-diabetic range. So yes, it can be done, and without or with very little medication.

https://josekalsbeek.blogspot.com/2019/11/the-nutritional-thingy.html <-- have a read here, it's as good a place to start as any. But you might want to add Dr. Jason Fung's The Diabetes Code to your reading list, maybe check out dietdoctor.com (You don't have to sign up, lots on there is free), maybe watch some YouTube vids by Dr. Eric Berg... All in all, there's a LOT to learn, and if you have any questions throw them out there. But you diet does need a complete overhaul, no grains, rice, cereals, oats, bread, pasta, fruit... If you do, your numbers will come down right quick, you'll lose weight and quite probably can avoid any meds your nurse is trying to throw at you. Without joining a pricy organisation like Slimming World. Just learn about what groceries work for you. And yes... A meter would certainly help you. You're flying blind without one. I think that if you test before a meal and 2 hours after your standard dinner, you'll be bowled over. What you're aiming for is a rise of no more than 2.0 mmol/l... i have a feeling you'll be well over. It's a good stick behind the door: it shows you what foods don't work, but also which do.... And after a while you won't need to test anymore because you'll know exactly what is right for you and what isn't.

Good luck! And again, if you have any questions, throw them out there! We're here to help.
Jo
 

My hba1c is 7.9 and previous visit was 6.5. I'm not restricting my food on purpose although I'm need to loose about 3 stone and I'm scared to put more weight on. I stopped Dairy as it gives me horrible tummy pains these days. I do have a meter but I was told I didn't need it after my pregnancy (nearly 2 years ago now) so haven't been testing and was actually never given one before I got pregnant despite being diabetic already. After reading some of the posts this morning I have dug it out to try testing again.
 

You'll probably need some new test strips and as the coss involved in using a meter are the strips.
Maybe try and find one with some of the cheaper versions.
I use the TEE2 from spirit healthcare 50 strips cost £7.75 if you do a reasoably large order 5-6 pots by phone they'll probably supply the meter for free. Not the absolute cheapest but it seems to be pretty accurate.
https://shop.spirit-health.co.uk/collections/tee2

Edit to add your HbA1c levels aren't astronomical so some dietary changes should be fine to bring your levels down. A lot of us find that by cutting down hard on carbohydrates we not only bring our blood sugar down to more "normal" levels but also experience weight loss.
I'm down 120 pounds so far from morbidly obese to merely overweight!
 
Hi Jo thanks for the advice. Is low carb essentially Keto, as I tried that diet before and got killer headaches!! I'm happy to cut down on carbs but what does everyone have for breakfast and lunch? Evening meal I think I can cope with. I will definitely look at the link and info though thank you Jo.
 
Headaches are usually through a lack of salt as cutting out processed food means you take in less so I add it to drinks (a pinch in each mug). My breakfast is a coffee with double cream as I tend not to eat before mid afternoon then 1 or 2 large meals in a reduced eating window.
www.dietdoctor.com has some great low carb recipe ideas for free without signing up well worth a peruse...
 
Low carb and keto are related, but not quite the same. With low carb you lower your cab intake, moderately, strictly... Somewhere between 120 gramd a day to 40 or something, and if you go that route, your meter'll tell you which amount is right for you. With keto you usually stay at 20 grams of carbs a day or under, which will put you in ketosis: fat burning mode, rather than using carbs for fuel. It can happen at 30 grams a day too, but it's pretty much assured at 20.

Ah, the headaches... That's called carb- or keto-flu! It would've gone away after a few days/weeks, once your body stabilised. Basically, carbs cause water retention... Lose the carbs, lose the water. You urinate an awful lot, which is nice because you drop a whole lot of water weight in one go... But you also flush out electrolytes. And you do need those or you get dehydrated. The solution? Add some extra salts in, have bone broth, coconut milk, magnesium supplements... That helps. I fell off the keto wagon on the days around Christmas, so I went through carb flu again myself.... But this time I knew how to fix it. Had some extra salt, drank enough, popped some magnesium pills and the fatigue and headache were gone in no time at all. You were just dehydrated, like I was the other day. So.... If you go the low carb route again, do it slowly, lower your carbs gradually, and keep some salt and magnesium on hand... Makes all the difference.

As for breakfast, I usually skip it, but when i do eat i have eggs some way or another, though they do serve as a fine lucnch as well... With bacon, cheese, high meat content sausages are good too, maybe a tomato or some mushrooms. Sometimes I make an omelet with cinnamon and cream added in, and a little bit of erythritol sweetener (not too much as the aftertaste can be a bit strong and the stuff is insanely expensive). Occasionally I make Keto Mug Bread to dip in my egg yolks. (15 g of melted butter, 22 g of almond flour and ½ a teaspoonful of baking powder. Mix. Then add an egg and mix. Microwave at highest W for 90 seconds. You might want to slice it and put it in a toaster, but I'm usually too impatient to). You can add anything you like by the way, sometimes I put in some cheese, italian herbs and garlic powder, or cinnamon, or cocoa powder and extra dark chocolate drops... Just an idea. When I have lunch it's either eggs or salad of some sort, usually leafy greens with tuna or salmon or warmed goat's cheese, either with mayo or olive oil, olives, capers, tomato, whatever... Or something like a sausage with a mayo/mustard sauce. For dinner I usually go for meat, fish or poultry with either cauliflower or broccoli rice with bacon and/or cheese, bunch of herbs/spices tossed in.

Hope that helps!
Jo
 
I agree with the posters above, too many carbs. If I ate the types of food you do I’d be on medication too. But I don’t and I’m not. Sadly what’s purported to be healthy isn’t, especially for diabetics. The medical professionals are slowly switching on to the fact that the advice historically is a large part of the reason diabetes has been viewed as progressive, but many aren’t there yet.

The reason we need to lose weight is because we cannot digestive and process carbs properly. This is what makes us different from metabolically healthy people. Carbs end up floating around the blood as glucose and then stored as fat instead of used for energy for us. Sorting out the carbs (by not eating so many) also sorts out the weight.

If you need what looks like typical breakfast food there are also seed, nut and coconut flour porridge’s around. Google keto porridge. Also granola using seeds and nuts.

Definitely have a read of all the free stuff on dietdoctor.com. It explains a lot of this and has loads of free recipes too.
 
Thank you for all your advice. I took my bloods 2 hours after my breakfast which was a piece of toast and healthy version of peanut butter and it was 12.5!!!! Before lunch it was 7.8 and then just now it was 9.8! For lunch I had 3 scrambled eggs and caugettes (fridge is a bit empty) I must say I'm starving but should my bloods be that high after just eggs? I'm thinking I should go back to the diabetic nurse to chat about this but she's all about the meds .
 
It takes a bit of time for the numbers to come down across the whole day even when you drop the carbs. As you are still eating a fair few an individually low meal might not respond as well as consistently low ones. And the rise wasn’t that bad at lunch anyway.

What was it before breakfast out of interest?

If all the nurse is about is meds then you’re unlikely to get any support for this method. Personally I’d give it a week or two and see what the numbers do. Be consistent with food diary and before and after meal readings and come and ask in here a lot and I’m sure you’ll see improvements and understand what’s happening far better.

And if you’re starving add some fats into the meals. butter or cream goes well in scrambled eggs. It keeps you much fuller without messing up the bgl. (Or cholesterol despite what were told but that’s another conversation)
 
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The rise after the eggs wasn't that much... Better yet, that was excellent. It's not how high you are after a meal, it's how high you are compared to how high you were before it. (Ad what did you have to drink with it?) And considering you were pretty high, the numbers after the eggs were fine... (blame the bread, and what is a healthy version of peanut butter? Is it without sugars? Just checking, not attacking!!!!) Time to ditch the bread and find some things that will fill you up without spiking you. You can find most carb contents online, so that would save you one heck of a lot of time while shopping. It takes forever to do the groceries if you have to go over the labels in the shop.
 
I am type 1 so this isn't my story but I would question why you are against metformin per se? It is one of the better drugs and will help your liver to stop producing glucose quite so much which means you won't be releasing insulin so much (a good thing). Whilst I agree that your 'healthy' diet (low fat,high carb, healthy wholegrains etc.) evidently isn't working or you, it seems that your body has become more insulin resistant and perhaps your pancreas cannot keep up with the demand just now. Metformin plus a lower carb diet could really help you regain your metabolic health. Other diabetes drugs usually don't help reverse the condition and none of the drugs is as good as going low carb. One difficult mindset to change is the fear of gaining weight because this diet is about counting carbs not calories and is based on the theory that fat gain is due to the process of becoming diabetic and not the reverse. Therefore if you do the blood tests and 'eat to the meter' (finding you own personal limit) you will improve your blood sugars and as a consequence will lose fat as a side effect.
I think DietDoctor is a great place to start for education plus recipes. I am a busy mum too but have managed to go low carb over the last few years and have a stable weight with much less tummy! I did this by changing one meal at a time and breakfast is a great one to start with. Mine ranges from chia pudding through bacon,eggs, mushrooms, tomatoes at the local greasy spoon (hold the toast), coffee by itself or with a spoon of nut butter (not sure what healthy peanut butter is btw?!) or CarbKilla bar (low carb junk but sometimes a convenient meal is needed).
 
Wow you are all so helpful! Thank you!
I don't know what my bloods were before my breakfast as I hadn't found my meter. I have no real idea what the numbers should be or what a big or little rise is. When I found out I was diabetic it was via letter and once I got over the shock, I was in denile for a bit then eventually saw a diabetic nurse. She said I didn't need medication (not the same nurse as now) and if I ate healthy and lost weight it should reverse and she sent me on my way. I was only called in once I was pregnant and had to have insulin. I did my bloods and the machine told me how much insulin to take. I was told to stop after I gave birth. So I really don't know what I'm doing!! All I know is, is that I don't want diabetes and I'd love to loose 3 stone before my wedding, I will be my pre kids weight (my eldest is 11!!).
The peanut butter is no added sugar and 97% peanuts, then oil and salt, so in terms of other peanut butters, it's better! I don't have it often though. Nicole, I like the advice of changing one meal at a time, it feels more manageable and the chia pudding sounds nice. I will also keep testing too. As with regards to the metformin I'm not sure if I should have it or not. I already take antidepressants and a beta blocker to prevent migraines... I don't want to rattle... Also taking medication is admitting I've done this to myself and I find it hard to do that. If anyone has advice on if it will help then I will greatfully listen. The diabetic nurse gave me a leaflet on a different medication when I voiced concerns on side effects although said she would prescribe metformin ‍
. My argument was that I don't have side effects from my diabetes so why take medication that gives me side effects for a condition I don't have side effects for?! See I'm in denial
But I'm so glad I've found this community, it feels like a weights been lifted
 
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Have a good mooch round here, loads of advise, 3 medications isn't rattling although sometimes it might feel like it,(I take 9 tablets (4 different drugs) just for the diabetes) you haven't done this to yourself, you've just got a dodgy metabolism which can't cope with as much carbohydrate as other people, but changing your diet can help. To put a bit of a downer on it, you might not have side effects now, but continuing to run with your BG's higher than they should be you could end up with some or all of the horrible side effects this condition brings (in extremes blindness, amputation, constant pain from neuropathy) getting your levels into a "normal" range and keeping them there is the best way to make sure you don't get them. Remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint. Not everyone has side effects from metformin, and if you do there is always the slow release version, and if you do really well you can always stop taking them.
 
I'm with everyone else on the low carb.
It's worked for me.

In terms of metformin, one of the side effects is reduction in appetite. It has had that effect on me. My portion sizes have shrunk to probably what I should have been eating. I am happy with it as I don't have the unpleasant side effects!

I have lost 2 stone in 5 or 6 months with LC and metformin so your 3 stone is doable depending on time frame.

I was with Slimming World for 3 years and lost very slowly, now I realise my slow loss was linked to the fact I have been 'carb intolerant'! The only part of SW that even nearly matches LC is the SP days that SW suggest and they only suggest it at a week at a time.
 
Find out the last hba1c number, this gives you a starting point. For the moment, concentrate on the numbers before and after you eat. If the difference is 2 or under you are golden. Over 2, too many carbs.

Download the mysugr app. Record your food and carbs. Used the right way it is highly motivating.

Once you have embraced your new diet you can start planning that wedding outfit
We will want photos!
 
If you’re not getting side effects from the metformin then you may as well stay on for now. You can always stop it later and it’ll help a little getting the numbers down whilst you get to grips with a new way of eating. (Remember to get your prescription exemption certificate as it also covers other meds too!). I lost 3 stone in about 5 months by focusing purely on my carbs, not counting or worrying in the least about protein or fats (other than to make sure I ate enough to feel full) or calories.
 
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