Is weightloss really affective (been doing research)

Mollyc1995 said:

so I have read some articles about how people who have recently been diagnosed with type 2 lose weight they can get their blood sugar instantly down to normal and remain like that.....
In the article it explains that when newly diagnosed start to lose over 10% of their body weight the fat round the organs start to go and it kick starts your pancreas and re activates the beta cells.....is this true

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Current research is pointing towards yes on this, the DIRECT trial showed this and the various stories from the keto community as well. I was reading a few stories about those that took up bodybuilding and reversed their diabetes too so it's entirely possible. One of the DIRECT findings was that even up to 6 years they could put it into remission with weight loss.

Edit: For the accurate info on DIRECT

I was under the impression that waist circumference was at least as important as weight?

Mollyc1995 said:

so I have read some articles about how people who have recently been diagnosed with type 2 lose weight they can get their blood sugar instantly down to normal and remain like that.....
In the article it explains that when newly diagnosed start to lose over 10% of their body weight the fat round the organs start to go and it kick starts your pancreas and re activates the beta cells.....is this true

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Hi,

Do,you have some links to what you have read?
Sometimes T2 is an insulin resistance issue? & the beta cells are still very much alive & kicking? Don't listen to my waffle.

Let me tag in @Bluetit1802 @bulkbiker @Brunneria .

I believe the organ fat is the first to go when losing weight, so in that sense, it does make a difference. There's another issue too. Heavy metals and toxins are partitioned off from the body in the fat cells.

So as we lose weight, it's important to eat fibrous foods (non-starchy vegetables if you eat low carb like me) with meals that will absorb and remove them from the body so they won't be reabsorbed.

Heavy metals and toxins are one of the possible drivers of diabetes. I have not been able to completely reverse my diabetes with diet, walking, and weight loss alone, so that's on my list of things to investigate personally. But it's a long list and I want to lose ALL the excess weight first.

I learned this from Joseph Pizzorno, ND a number of years ago. Learn more by listening to interviews with him... https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joseph+pizzorno

I don't know anything about weight loss and better beta cell function though...

Jaylee said:

Hi,

Do,you have some links to what you have read?
Sometimes T2 is an insulin resistance issue? & the beta cells are still very much alive & kicking? Don't listen to my waffle.

Let me tag in @Bluetit1802 @bulkbiker @Brunneria .

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Sounds like the Newcastle diet methodology.

Many type twos have a pancreas which is belting out insulin at a great rate - so you do have to pick your problem and its resolution carefully.

Done it myself, it works.....lost circa 2stone 5lbs (5'7" tall, originally weighing 14stone). Waiting for the official result from my latest HbA1c (was starting in Jan 19 at 58 mmol/mol), but by tracking my own blood glucose at various times each day (x4 - 6) pre and post prandial, estimated HbA1c is possibly around the 30 mmol/mol expectation - fingers crossed.

I seem to recall reading in a clinical study that (subject to BETA cell production not being compromised in Islets/Pancreas) a 1g reduction of visceral fat around the Pancreas will allow the organ to produce Insulin again, albeit not usually at a non-diabetic level. The body's own resistance to Insulin is another story, but by judicious use of lifestyle adjustments (e.g. Low Carb, High Fat and Exercise) then there seems to be genuine validity as suggested by various endocrinology resources. The reliance on prescribing drugs such as Metformin (SR/ER) and alike, whilst may be essential in some cases, is seemingly far too readily churned out to every new diagnosis, and there seems to be a financial element that sways this decision making process. That said, there are benefits allegedly in prevention of cancers and such?.

In subjects, if you are storing excess visceral fat around the upper abdomen, then this is a very high marker for T2 Diabetes risk and also the main area to remove if subsequently diagnosed. Genetic factors are also slowly being recognised as a main contributor alongside lifestyle and food habits in the modern day. Carbs in the main are the enemy, and are heavily prevalent in most quick and easy foodstuffs demanded in a hectic lifestyle that we all tend to subscribe to, thus avoid to a high degree if possible - your blood glucose meter (if you get one, or buy one) will allow you to see the effects of various foods. As a previous poster mentioned, the 'hip-to-waist' is a far better ratio to review periodically as a guide, as the BMI calculators are a little mis-leading?.

Be wary of the advice that is given on some of the sites that purport to be an official resource - A special style of diet is required to prevent the loss of limbs, neuropathy, retinopathy etc. etc. and to believe otherwise is to fool yourself. That said, you can enjoy some of the nice things you once did, as long as its occasional and not every (other) day. Some say you cannot, but that's simply not true unless you have no self-control.

On diagnosis I went LCHF and lost a lot of weight quickly.However, my BG came down even quicker.My first readings from about 2 weeks after diagnosis were below 6. In spite of continuing to lose weight my BG stayed much the same.

I do wonder if in my case my BG responded to a change in diet,and weight lose was a by product of my diet change rather than the driver for the BG change

Caeseji said:

One of the DIRECT findings was that even up to 10 years they could put it into remission with weight loss.

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Sorry but that's incorrect the max time diagnosed for the DiRECT trial was 6 years or they were excluded from the trial.
And after 24 months only 36% were still in remission mainly because the weight loss maintenance is more difficult than the weight loss itself.

The report can be found here
https://www.directclinicaltrial.org...d draft, prior to editing and corrections.pdf

First.Officer said:

Be wary of the advice that is given on some of the sites that purport to be an official resource

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Which one's would those be please?

bulkbiker said:

Sorry but that's incorrect the max time diagnosed for the DiRECT trial was 6 years or they were excluded from the trial.
And after 24 months only 36% were still in remission mainly because the weight loss maintenance is more difficult than the weight loss itself.

The report can be found here
https://www.directclinicaltrial.org.uk/Pubfiles/Final accepted draft, prior to editing and corrections.pdf

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Ahhhh sorry, must have got my wires crossed somewhere and read it in some other article. Thanks for the report link, it's why I decided not to use that method to put mine into remission. I would rather eat a decent whole foods low/zero carb diet than risk the rebound going back to normal food. It is what works for the individual however and I salute the people that did manage it.

@Mollyc1995 It does get that way sometimes, I think I said it in another topic of the 'swinging pendulum of optimism', sometimes it can be all the way over to full and then the weight of everything will pull it back over to the other side. You have to feel it out and sort out what works for you but one of the decent ways I have found to drop weight has been throwing in some intermittent fasting. May be that you have to let your body have some recovery from those foods for a while.

Caeseji said:

Ahhhh sorry, must have got my wires crossed somewhere and read it in some other article. Thanks for the report link, it's why I decided not to use that method to put mine into remission. I would rather eat a decent whole foods low/zero carb diet than risk the rebound going back to normal food. It is what works for the individual however and I salute the people that did manage it.

@Mollyc1995 It does get that way sometimes, I think I said it in another topic of the 'swinging pendulum of optimism', sometimes it can be all the way over to full and then the weight of everything will pull it back over to the other side. You have to feel it out and sort out what works for you but one of the decent ways I have found to drop weight has been throwing in some intermittent fasting. May be that you have to let your body have some recovery from those foods for a while.

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No worries.. the ND is a bit of a "thing" of mine.. and the DiRECT study is the main way of examining it..

@Mollyc1995 I think so long as we're monitoring our glucose levels, are regularly having lab tests done, and are adjusting our strategies along the way to improve or maintain our health markers, we can each find what works best for us as individuals. Most of us have the time needed to do this.

The DiRECT study was where I came in. I found the thought that I could do something positive hugely motivational and whilst I didn't do meal replacements I did reduce my calorie intake dramatically and ended up going keto even though I wasn't aware of it until later.
Once I lost the weight my blood sugars were looking good on my meter but I realised that to maintain that I needed a better strategy than the NHS Eatwell plate which is what I had been eating before so have stayed keto. It sounds, or rather reads, like it will be tough and unpleasant but it really isn't, in fact I love it.
Losing weight is, I suspect, important if not vital, low carb (and 150g is low in some peoples opinion and certainly much lower than the Eatwell plate suggests) is the long term solution to avoiding complications.
Try not to get too down about it as that risks just 'giving up' and you are actually making really positive changes. Perhaps you can just tweek your diet gradually? You mention fruit, is that berries? if not you could start by swapping some high carb fruit for those and lop a few more more carbs off your 150g.
In the end it really doesn't matter why something works just that it does work and weight loss and low carb has certainly worked for me and that is measured by blood sugar levels, if they are ok then I am ok.

Caeseji said:

Ahhhh sorry, must have got my wires crossed somewhere and read it in some other article. Thanks for the report link, it's why I decided not to use that method to put mine into remission. I would rather eat a decent whole foods low/zero carb diet than risk the rebound going back to normal food. It is what works for the individual however and I salute the people that did manage it.

@Mollyc1995 It does get that way sometimes, I think I said it in another topic of the 'swinging pendulum of optimism', sometimes it can be all the way over to full and then the weight of everything will pull it back over to the other side. You have to feel it out and sort out what works for you but one of the decent ways I have found to drop weight has been throwing in some intermittent fasting. May be that you have to let your body have some recovery from those foods for a while.

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You may be thinking of the Counterbalance study which preceded the DIRECT trial. University of Newcastle's press office says this:-

In my opinion better glycemic control causes weight loss rather than weight loss causing better glycemic control. However, the two are inextricably linked and each improves the other. A virtuous cycle of one hand washing the other. Ultimately, the improved glycemic control brings about lower circulating insulin, which in turn enables the effective burning of stored body fat, but that reduction in fat also gives the liver some more breathing space into which it can stash more glucose as new fat.

One of the limitations of the DIRECT study is that they only selected patients with a BMI of 27–45 kg/m2.
So people with Diabetes who have a lower BMI have not been used. However the results have then been generalised as if they apply to all people (including the 10-15% who are not "overweight")

The discussion in the paper (helpfully linked by bulkbuilder above) says
"The present results suggestthat type 2 diabetes is a clinical consequence of accumulation of excess weight,in ectopic sites by susceptible individuals,even with a relatively low body mass index." - but it didn't use subjects with low BMI

I am not being critical of the approach, or people who try it. But suggesting it will work for everyone is not (in my opinion) supported by the evidence