I've become a low carb binger..

DCUKMod · Feb 25, 2018

Lovejoy00 said:
Since being diagnosed a few weeks ago and going all low carb, I now realise I have replaced the usual biscuits and general carb rubbish I was binge eating with cheese and meats.

Yesterday I had basically a whole pack of Stilton cheese, and the day before a whole packet of continental meats in one sitting.

Did this happen to anyone else? In my first week I lost 2kg, and now this week I haven't lost anything. I am worried I will end up putting on more weight due to the excess fat. I know fat isn't as bad as we are all led to believe, but excessive fat surely is?

However, the good news is, my post meal sugar level rarely exceeds 6.0! I found out yesterday a few Nairn Oat Biscuits didn't make a lot of difference.

So, what is more important, a healthy sugar level or losing weight? I know they are both important, but should one be priortised?

Sorry to ramble on!

Hello there - I think the impact of your cheese and meat consumption would depend on how much you had. A pack of cheese or meat could be lots or not too catastrophic in terms of potential to stall your weight loss; especially if this is a single incident, or contained to weekends (as opposed to a daily thing).

To your query about the prioritisation of blood scores, versus weight loss? Personally, when diagnosed my efforts were focused 100% on bringing my blood sugars into line. My view was that I would rather have healthy blood sugar scores plus love handles, than be super-slim and have blood scores that were still causing concern.

As it transpired for me, when my numbers moderated my love handles disappeared, and eventually had a challenge to halt the weight loss. Many people find this, but others prefer to focus on weight loss. In reality, we could probably get into a chicken and egg argument on this, as demonstrated by how your thread has gone. I do hope you haven't found the bickering by some to be too distracting.

Moving forwards though; I am one of these people who appears to be able to eat plenty of fat, without gaining weight, although if I do over-indulge, my tummy becomes upset, which is quite unpleasant. I'll spare you the details, but it is easy to identify the culprit. It seems I have a personal fat threshold, in terms of what I can eat.

My daily calorie intake, last I spent time checking it, varied from 2000-2500 calories a day. I am 160cm tall, weight 48kg and am not a massive, massive exerciser. For me, not all calories are equal. I can gain weight if I up the carbs, but it takes me a long time to gain on low carb, but increasing protein and fats.

We are all different. I all that I'm not trying to lull you into a false sense of security in terms of what you eat, I am merely declaring my personal experience over the 4.5 years since my diagnosis.

Looking towards your binging

jcbman · Feb 25, 2018

lucylocket61 said:
http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2015/11/why-not-losing-weight-1.html

I rest my case, m'lud

I still weigh myself, and find the scales never lie lol.

jcbman · Feb 25, 2018

DCUKMod said:
Hello there - I think the impact of your cheese and meat consumption would depend on how much you had. A pack of cheese or meat could be lots or not too catastrophic in terms of potential to stall your weight loss; especially if this is a single incident, or contained to weekends (as opposed to a daily thing).

To your query about the prioritisation of blood scores, versus weight loss? Personally, when diagnosed my efforts were focused 100% on bringing my blood sugars into line. My view was that I would rather have healthy blood sugar scores plus love handles, than be super-slim and have blood scores that were still causing concern.

As it transpired for me, when my numbers moderated my love handles disappeared, and eventually had a challenge to halt the weight loss. Many people find this, but others prefer to focus on weight loss. In reality, we could probably get into a chicken and egg argument on this, as demonstrated by how your thread has gone. I do hope you haven't found the bickering by some to be too distracting.

Moving forwards though; I am one of these people who appears to be able to eat plenty of fat, without gaining weight, although if I do over-indulge, my tummy becomes upset, which is quite unpleasant. I'll spare you the details, but it is easy to identify the culprit. It seems I have a personal fat threshold, in terms of what I can eat.

My daily calorie intake, last I spent time checking it, varied from 2000-2500 calories a day. I am 160cm tall, weight 48kg and am not a massive, massive exerciser. For me, not all calories are equal. I can gain weight if I up the carbs, but it takes me a long time to gain on low carb, but increasing protein and fats.

We are all different. I all that I'm not trying to lull you into a false sense of security in terms of what you eat, I am merely declaring my personal experience over the 4.5 years since my diagnosis.

Looking towards your binging

Love handles lol.

lucylocket61 · Feb 25, 2018

SockFiddler said:
You posted a study about ketosis and fat intake.

I did, didnt I lol

I meant to post the one about fat adaption...............sorry

Dr Snoddy · Feb 25, 2018

jcbman said:
Ok,

are we saying, if the body burns fat, if you don't eat enough fat, you burn the fat off your gut.

But if you eat too much fat, you stop burning your bodies fat, but, (delicate like) the excess fat you are eating doesn't 'stick' but gets excreted'?

I am wondering if you are using the term 'excreted' when you actually mean something else. Dietary fat is a valuable source of energy for the body. If the total energy in the diet exceeds the body requirements then the surplus energy will be stored as subcutaneous or visceral fat. LCHF will work if someone is trying to maintain a normal body weight and is consuming just enough protein and fat to meet their energy requirements. However, if their calorie intake is greater than required then the excess will be stored as fat not excreted.

SockFiddler · Feb 25, 2018

But... again, and I'm feeling a little confounded now: you eat more food when you eat carbs. And when you switch to LCHF (whatever form you prefer), you still have to break the eating habit.

Fat is more satisfying; it's a far more dense macronutrient. You try eating half a pound of cheese in a single sitting and tell me how to get on and then consider how that's less than half the weight of an average portion of chips.

The OP's body is still adapting. There will come a point where he will have broken the habit of eating carbs. That's the point. If he then intends to gorge himself on cheese and whatnot, that's up to him, but it's something of an inhuman feat. Again, try eating half a pound of cheese in a single sitting to find out why. And that's still only 100g fat and approx 1,000 calories:

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/253704206

I don't know what else to say. The sheer amount of food you'd have to eat to gain weight is bonkers.

lucylocket61 · Feb 25, 2018

Dr Snoddy said:
I am wondering if you are using the term 'excreted' when you actually mean something else. Dietary fat is a valuable source of energy for the body. If the total energy in the diet exceeds the body requirements then the surplus energy will be stored as subcutaneous or visceral fat. LCHF will work if someone is trying to maintain a normal body weight and is consuming just enough protein and fat to meet their energy requirements. However, if their calorie intake is greater than required then the excess will be stored as fat not excreted.

I am using the term excreted, because @Guzzler used the term:

Once fat adapted the fat in the diet does not make you fat as the energy is used. In other words, excess carbs are stored as fat whereas excess fat is excreted after a while on LCHF.

I took it to mean pooped out, if i have misunderstood, I hope @guzzer will clarify what she meant.

jcbman · Feb 25, 2018

Dr Snoddy said:
I am wondering if you are using the term 'excreted' when you actually mean something else. Dietary fat is a valuable source of energy for the body. If the total energy in the diet exceeds the body requirements then the surplus energy will be stored as subcutaneous or visceral fat. LCHF will work if someone is trying to maintain a normal body weight and is consuming just enough protein and fat to meet their energy requirements. However, if their calorie intake is greater than required then the excess will be stored as fat not excreted.

Call excreted anything you want.
I get flack if I'm not 'polite'

Lets call it a toilet floater then.

Dr Snoddy · Feb 25, 2018

Guzzler said:
Yes, but not at a level where we would gain massive amounts of weight because when fat adapted we would be using it as fuel.
When we lose subcutaneous fat or visceral fat it is excreted in the faeces, the breath and to a lesser extent in the sweat. The source for this information eludes me, too.

lucylocket61 · Feb 25, 2018

SockFiddler said:
But... again, and I'm feeling a little confounded now: you eat more food when you eat carbs. And when you switch to LCHF (whatever form you prefer), you still have to break the eating habit.

Fat is more satisfying; it's a far more dense macronutrient. You try eating half a pound of cheese in a single sitting and tell me how to get on and then consider how that's less than half the weight of an average portion of chips.

The OP's body is still adapting. There will come a point where he will have broken the habit of eating carbs. That's the point. If he then intends to gorge himself on cheese and whatnot, that's up to him, but it's something of an inhuman feat. Again, try eating half a pound of cheese in a single sitting to find out why. And that's still only 100g fat and approx 1,000 calories:

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/253704206

I don't know what else to say. The sheer amount of food you'd have to eat to gain weight is bonkers.

nevertheless, telling someone that they can eat unlimited amounts of fat, and not gain weight, because the excess fat is excreted from the body is incorrect.

and yes, I could eat loads of calories of protein and fats a day. 4oz of cheese, 2oz of butter, full fat milk and yoghurt, cream, vegetable broth made from meat stock with the fat in, it all adds up. Some of the scientific trials of eating to achieve fat adaption and observe it s affect on weight have involved 5-6,000 cals a day.

bulkbiker · Feb 25, 2018

jcbman said:
I still weigh myself, and find the scales never lie lol.

Of course they don't they show your weight.. not quite sure what your point is. Whether that is weight from water, a full bladder, a full stomach, a full bowel, your body fat, your bones or your muscle is of course open to interpretation and the time of day.

What you and @lucylocket61 seem to be getting confused about (possibly in your case deliberately) is that eating a higher proportion of fat in the diet leads to greater satiety.
Sit down with 250g of butter and see how much you can eat without being sick.
Higher fat makes you fuller and stops you eating before you overeat through nausea if nothing else. This is what stops people putting on weight when fat adapted and I bet that the OP will not be eating that much fat for long before this becomes evident. This is also why so many people who eat ketogenically end up fasting.. they simply aren't hungry.
Please remember a well formulated keto way of eating is very few carbs, moderate protein and fat to satiety not "stuff as much in as you can".
When you eat carbs with this the the satiety is overridden by your blood sugars spiking and then crashing and by your insulin responses to what you have eaten.

Dr Snoddy · Feb 25, 2018

Guzzler, think about it. How could we possibly be excreting fat in our breath? Gaseous fat?? Globules of fat? How would fat get out of the bloodstream and into the lungs???

jcbman · Feb 25, 2018

bulkbiker said:
Of course they don't they show your weight.. not quite sure what your point is. Whether that is weight from water, a full bladder, a full stomach, a full bowel, your body fat, your bones or your muscle is of course open to interpretation and the time of day.

What you and @lucylocket61 seem to be getting confused about (possibly in your case deliberately) is that eating a higher proportion of fat in the diet leads to greater satiety.
Sit down with 250g of butter and see how much you can eat without being sick.
Higher fat makes you fuller and stops you eating before you overeat through nausea if nothing else. This is what stops people putting on weight when fat adapted and I bet that the OP will not be eating that much fat for long before this becomes evident. This is also why so many people who eat ketogenically end up fasting.. they simply aren't hungry.
Please remember a well formulated keto way of eating is very few carbs, moderate protein and fat to satiety not "stuff as much in as you can".
When you eat carbs with this the the satiety is overridden by your blood sugars spiking and then crashing and by your insulin responses to what you have eaten.

Ok, so you reckon you are low calorie really then?
Fat makes you sick?
High fat means you stop being hungry, and stop eating?
So you fast?

That makes more sense than eating a lot to lose weight.

(I ignored your obnoxious snidely comment, just because I'm better than you)

bulkbiker · Feb 25, 2018

Dr Snoddy said:
Guzzler, think about it. How could we possibly be excreting fat in our breath? Gaseous fat?? Globules of fat? How would fat get out of the bloodstream and into the lungs???

From what I recall it turns into heat..
You might find this one interesting

Dr Snoddy · Feb 25, 2018

jcbman said:
Call excreted anything you want.
I get flack if I'm not 'polite'

Lets call it a toilet floater then.

A toilet floater results from undigested dietary fat not from fat that has been stored within the body.

lucylocket61 · Feb 25, 2018

bulkbiker said:
Of course they don't they show your weight.. not quite sure what your point is. Whether that is weight from water, a full bladder, a full stomach, a full bowel, your body fat, your bones or your muscle is of course open to interpretation and the time of day.

What you and @lucylocket61 seem to be getting confused about (possibly in your case deliberately) is that eating a higher proportion of fat in the diet leads to greater satiety.
Sit down with 250g of butter and see how much you can eat without being sick.
Higher fat makes you fuller and stops you eating before you overeat through nausea if nothing else. This is what stops people putting on weight when fat adapted and I bet that the OP will not be eating that much fat for long before this becomes evident. This is also why so many people who eat ketogenically end up fasting.. they simply aren't hungry.
Please remember a well formulated keto way of eating is very few carbs, moderate protein and fat to satiety not "stuff as much in as you can".
When you eat carbs with this the the satiety is overridden by your blood sugars spiking and then crashing and by your insulin responses to what you have eaten.

I am not confused. I am opposing the assertion by @Guzzler that stuffing as much fat as you can get in will not lead to weight gain as the excess fat is pooped out.

I completely agree with you that stopping when you feel full, and not eating when you are not hungry is the right way to approach this.

I do not believe that eating more fat = greater saity. That is not my point at all. My point is in the first line of my reply to you which i have bolded.

Incidentally, I still havent found the answer to how low a carb one has to be to achieve fat adaption. Can you tell me please?

bulkbiker · Feb 25, 2018

jcbman said:
Ok, so you reckon you are low calorie really then?
Fat makes you sick?
High fat means you stop being hungry, and stop eating?
So you fast?

That makes more sense than eating a lot to lose weight.

Read what I wrote and not what your prejudice makes you think I wrote please.

jcbman · Feb 25, 2018

Dr Snoddy said:
A toilet floater results from undigested dietary fat not from fat that has been stored within the body.

Is that ear wax?

lucylocket61 · Feb 25, 2018

Dr Snoddy said:
A toilet floater results from undigested dietary fat not from fat that has been stored within the body.

thats what orlistat does. so its not a natural mechanism for fat to be undigested and pass right through?

jcbman · Feb 25, 2018

bulkbiker said:
Read what I wrote and not what your prejudice makes you think I wrote please.

Heat?
You reckon LCHF leads to spontaneous combustion lol.

I've become a low carb binger..

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