Joseph Kraft and hidden diabetes

[FatEmperor]

Well I agree the diet is fine, but the thought that it's too late and my heart is already damaged and just waiting to murder me is pretty depressing. All the cheese in the world isn't going to cheer me up about that...

As Lucy says, damaged can be reversed/ halted and made stable. Coranary artery disease/calcification from hyperinsulinemia and hyperglycemia is an example - even with a high score and very high risk, if the progression is halted through diet change your risk plummets to that of a person with a low score. This point is enormously important - see this summary:

http://www.thefatemperor.com/blog/2...ssion-illuminates-fundamental-truths-lchf2015

 

[tuatara]

Couldn't you also halt it through weight loss. Is that a silly question?

 

[SunnyExpat]

Couldn't you also halt it through weight loss. Simple.

If hyperinsulinemia and hyperglycemia cause the same negative results, weight loss seems to work well for hyperglycemia, so it would appear so.

 

[Indy51]

Couldn't you also halt it through weight loss. Is that a silly question?

I somehow doubt it. There are skinny athletic types dropping dead of heart attacks after running races, so it's more complex than just losing weight.

 

[SunnyExpat]

I somehow doubt it. There are skinny athletic types dropping dead of heart attacks after running races, so it's more complex than just losing weight.

Are they all diabetic though?

 

[Indy51]

Are they all diabetic though?

I don't see your point - they could be anywhere on the metabolic syndrome spectrum, undiagnosed, whatever. Something is causing the CVD and you can't tell from the outside appearance whether the pathology is there or not.

 

[SunnyExpat]

I don't see your point - they could be anywhere on the metabolic syndrome spectrum, undiagnosed, whatever. Something is causing the CVD and you can't tell from the outside appearance whether the pathology is there or not.

Very true, that's my thought as well.
It can be caused by anything, even saturated fat.
That's why I try to go for unsaturated whenever I can.

 

[Indy51]

Very true, that's my thought as well.
It can be caused by anything, even saturated fat.
That's why I try to go for unsaturated whenever I can.

Wow, that's some logic leap, but whatever floats your boat.

I guess you haven't read the Suisse Credit review then, to be so positive you've got the whole thing sussed?

 

[FatEmperor]

Couldn't you also halt it through weight loss. Is that a silly question?

Not silly. Weight loss will improve Insulin Sensitivity and have many other beneficial effects. Technically you do not need to do low carb - simply starving yourself in a controlled manner on a disgusting low fat diet will ultimately drop your insulin levels also.

The point is that a carb-restricted regime will allow you to enjoy nutritious and delicious ancestral foods, while also enabling the most direct route to beneficial reduction of hyperinsulinemia AND hyperglycemia. It's the scientific solution. Not the dogma-driven nuttery.

 

[FatEmperor]

Very true, that's my thought as well.
It can be caused by anything, even saturated fat.
That's why I try to go for unsaturated whenever I can.

Saturated fat can certainly be a problem. But only in the context of excessive carbohydrate ingestion. The distinction is, well, kinda crucial.

 

[tuatara]

I don't see your point - they could be anywhere on the metabolic syndrome spectrum, undiagnosed, whatever. Something is causing the CVD and you can't tell from the outside appearance whether the pathology is there or not.

But not necessarily because they had a breadroll for breakfast. Inflammation can be caused by stress, smoking, drugs, cholestreol, sugar, pollution, yes the mere act of breathing.

 

[Indy51]

But not necessarily because they had a breadroll for breakfast. Inflammation can be caused by stress, smoking, drugs, cholestreol, sugar, pollution, yes the mere act of breathing.

True, but some of those (including the breadroll which would raise both insulin and BG) are under our control and some aren't, like pollution. I work on the things I can control and hopefully that lessens the impact of the things I can't.

In a way, I'm slightly peeved that maybe I'm doing myself out of the kind of death I would prefer while hopefully avoiding the diabetic complications I don't want. The only times I ever say to myself "that's the way to go" after hearing of a death, are the cases of sudden cardiac death, lol. The "drop dead" method would definitely be my personal choice; amputations and kidney failure, not so much

 

[SunnyExpat]

Saturated fat can certainly be a problem. But only in the context of excessive carbohydrate ingestion. The distinction is, well, kinda crucial.

As you say, saturated fat can be a problem. I've never seem it said for unsaturated, in fact the opposite, so it's a context I don't need to stress over.

But then I don't find I like to 'gorge on delicious fatty lamb and vegetables, juicy ribeye steaks, fine cheeses, olives, nuts and pate'
I more happy on reasonable amounts.
I'm afraid I don't I guzzle plenty of strong red wine either, more limited, maybe a glass with a meal.

So as Indy so quite rightly said, 'whatever floats your boat' I like keeping it simple, I would say I'm more the eat to live, rather than live to eat person.

 

[Brunneria]

As you say, saturated fat can be a problem. I've never seem it said for unsaturated, in fact the opposite, so it's a context I don't need to stress over.

You are not up to date with the latest research then.
I won't post links, because you have consistently said that you are not interested in reading them, but there is growing evidence that some/many unsaturated fats are unhelpful, although monounsaturated fats are still good. It is all about the omegas.

 

[Indy51]

A few quotes from the Credit Suisse report:

Saturated fat has not been a driver of obesity: fat does not make you fat. At current levels of consumption the most likely culprit behind growing obesity level of the world population is carbohydrates. A second potential factor is solvent-extracted vegetable oils (canola, corn oil, soybean oil, sunflower oil, cottonseed oil). Globally consumption per capita of these oils increased by 214% between 1961 and 2011 and 169% in the U.S. Increased calories intake—if we use the U.S. as an example—played a role, but please note that carbohydrates and vegetable oils accounted for over 90% of the increase in calorie intake in this period.

A proper review of the so called “fat paradoxes” (France, Israel and Japan) suggests that saturated fats are actually healthy and omega-6 fats, at current levels of consumption in the developed world, are not necessarily so.

Based on medical and our own research we can conclude that the intake of saturated fat (butter, palm and coconut oil and lard) poses no risk to our health and particularly to the heart. In the words of probably the most important epidemiological study published on the subject by Siri-Tarino et al: “There is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD.” Saturated fat is actually a healthy source of energy and it has a positive effect on the pattern A/B.

The main factor behind a high level of saturated fats in our blood is actually carbohydrates, not the amount of saturated fat we eat. Clinical trials show that a low carbohydrate diet is much more effective in lowering the level of saturated fat in our blood than a low-fat diet.

https://doc.research-and-analytics....=MFT6JQWS+4FvvuMDBUQ7v9g4cGa84/gpv8mURvaRWdQ=

 

[Roytaylorjasonfunglover]

Couldn't you also halt it through weight loss. Is that a silly question?

Weightloss helps tremendously. If you watch the video interview with Kraft, and reads his book, he mentions that the only times he failed his own diabetes test, was when he hade some extra kg on his body. When he was closer to his ideal weight, he passed the test with flying colours.

My current understanding of diabetes is that everyone has this personal fat threshold. How large or small this threshold is, depends on your diabetes genetics, somebody can have a bmi of 40 and be blessed with perfect sugars and cholesterol levels, while others may have diabetes at a bmi of 19 and have fullblown type 2 diabetes. Diabetes genes are like balding, God or good luck gave somebody great genetics, but it does not make it less unfair.

But as long as you cross your personal fat threshold all the complications of diabetes type 2 will start. But if you lose weight, you will stop the progression, and probably reverse a lot of the damage done. So it is all about maintaing a personal weight that makes you pass a Kraft type diabetes test.

 

[FatEmperor]

Weightloss helps tremendously. If you watch the video interview with Kraft, and reads his book, he mentions that the only times he failed his own diabetes test, was when he hade some extra kg on his body. When he was closer to his ideal weight, he passed the test with flying colours.

My current understanding of diabetes is that everyone has this personal fat threshold. How large or small this threshold is, depends on your diabetes genetics, somebody can have a bmi of 40 and be blessed with perfect sugars and cholesterol levels, while others may have diabetes at a bmi of 19 and have fullblown type 2 diabetes. Diabetes genes are like balding, God or good luck gave somebody great genetics, but it does not make it less unfair.

But as long as you cross your personal fat threshold all the complications of diabetes type 2 will start. But if you lose weight, you will stop the progression, and probably reverse a lot of the damage done. So it is all about maintaing a personal weight that makes you pass a Kraft type diabetes test.

Now yer talkin Roy....

 

[LucySW]

A few quotes from the Credit Suisse report:

Saturated fat has not been a driver of obesity: fat does not make you fat. At current levels of consumption the most likely culprit behind growing obesity level of the world population is carbohydrates. A second potential factor is solvent-extracted vegetable oils (canola, corn oil, soybean oil, sunflower oil, cottonseed oil). Globally consumption per capita of these oils increased by 214% between 1961 and 2011 and 169% in the U.S. Increased calories intake—if we use the U.S. as an example—played a role, but please note that carbohydrates and vegetable oils accounted for over 90% of the increase in calorie intake in this period.

A proper review of the so called “fat paradoxes” (France, Israel and Japan) suggests that saturated fats are actually healthy and omega-6 fats, at current levels of consumption in the developed world, are not necessarily so.

Based on medical and our own research we can conclude that the intake of saturated fat (butter, palm and coconut oil and lard) poses no risk to our health and particularly to the heart. In the words of probably the most important epidemiological study published on the subject by Siri-Tarino et al: “There is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD.” Saturated fat is actually a healthy source of energy and it has a positive effect on the pattern A/B.

The main factor behind a high level of saturated fats in our blood is actually carbohydrates, not the amount of saturated fat we eat. Clinical trials show that a low carbohydrate diet is much more effective in lowering the level of saturated fat in our blood than a low-fat diet.

https://doc.research-and-analytics....=MFT6JQWS+4FvvuMDBUQ7v9g4cGa84/gpv8mURvaRWdQ=

Isn't that a great piece of writing? I might even be able to get hubby to read it. Because it's written by a bank team, you know, real people not nutrition nutters.

(I'm quoting ... )

 

[SunnyExpat]

A few quotes from the Credit Suisse report:

Saturated fat has not been a driver of obesity: fat does not make you fat. At current levels of consumption the most likely culprit behind growing obesity level of the world population is carbohydrates. A second potential factor is solvent-extracted vegetable oils (canola, corn oil, soybean oil, sunflower oil, cottonseed oil). Globally consumption per capita of these oils increased by 214% between 1961 and 2011 and 169% in the U.S. Increased calories intake—if we use the U.S. as an example—played a role, but please note that carbohydrates and vegetable oils accounted for over 90% of the increase in calorie intake in this period.

A proper review of the so called “fat paradoxes” (France, Israel and Japan) suggests that saturated fats are actually healthy and omega-6 fats, at current levels of consumption in the developed world, are not necessarily so.

Based on medical and our own research we can conclude that the intake of saturated fat (butter, palm and coconut oil and lard) poses no risk to our health and particularly to the heart. In the words of probably the most important epidemiological study published on the subject by Siri-Tarino et al: “There is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD.” Saturated fat is actually a healthy source of energy and it has a positive effect on the pattern A/B.

The main factor behind a high level of saturated fats in our blood is actually carbohydrates, not the amount of saturated fat we eat. Clinical trials show that a low carbohydrate diet is much more effective in lowering the level of saturated fat in our blood than a low-fat diet.

https://doc.research-and-analytics....=MFT6JQWS+4FvvuMDBUQ7v9g4cGa84/gpv8mURvaRWdQ=

I wouldn't disagree with this.
Most reports seem to agree, saturated fats pose no greater risk than carbs.

However, if carbs are bad, why go for something equal to them?
I go down the route that unsaturated fats are actually better than carbs, so that works for me.

There's also more complications than fat makes you fat, or fat doesn't make you fat.
A lot of type 2's aren't fat, so obesity is fairly irrelevant here.

My bottom line, no one has yet shown saturated fat to be more beneficial than good, unsaturated fat, so until then, I'm good with it.

 

[LakeTahoeBob]

Check out "The Big Fat Surprise" by Nina Teicholz-

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