Keto, Fasting, and Distance Running/Training

Hi @rogg.

Nice you're getting back to the running you enjoy.

While I can't help, may I suggest this guy might have some interest for you, perhaps.

https://copdathlete.com/copd-news/ketogenic-diet-for-copd-the-facts/
.
Have a nephew with COPD, and while searching diets etc once I was DX'd, one of his links popped up.

Not the one posted, sadly.
But it detailed how he ate and a good bit more about diets, nutrition, for runners, that I have to say didn't stick in my mind


Good luck finding a way to fit the diet & running

Hi there @Roggg

I’m not a runner, but certainly a long distance walker and combining that with keto (well 95% carnivore) and IF. I don’t do extended fasts.

I was in training for much of the past 18 months - 2 years or so (got over an Achilles injury about a year ago) for a 32 mile day long walk around the perimeter of Manhattan (cancelled due to Covid), and got as far as one 30 mile walk completed in 9.5 hours on a hot, August day, in the sun, water fasted. On several occasions I’ve gone 15-20+ miles in one hit, at around 3.2 miles an hour, water fasted. This November just gone, I completed 215 miles across the month. Almost all walks water fasted, or at least just the odd tea with cream beforehand (aside from evening walks).

So hopefully that kind of scale is comparable to what you’re thinking of.

So far as hydration is concerned, I tend to use water during the exercise, with the addition on occasion (and also once finished) of electrolytes. I use this brand: https://www.bulk.com/uk/electrolyte-powder.html I also have my own drink, comprised of iced water, juice of half a fresh lime and some pink salt, for consumption immediately after.

I don’t find hunger a problem during exercise, but am often ravenous a day or two after a particularly long walk. Filling up with protein and fat takes care of it and I’ve never felt the need to ‘carb up’ before or after.

Hope this helps and happy to keep sharing, although I’m pretty much confined to base for a while due to illness.

Edit to say that there’s a member on here who is into long distance running, @rhubarb73 He doesn’t log in often, but just in case!

I presume you’re aware of this recent experiment: https://www.dietdoctor.com/uk-team-completes-a-100-mile-five-day-run-with-no-food


edit for typo

This book and the other works by its authors might be interesting https://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Science-Low-Carbohydrate-Performance/dp/0983490716. There’s a fair bit on cycling and low carb out there too regarding endurance based exercise rather than explosive performance.

The gent Zac Bitter, trains low carb and uses carbs strategically. He has a couple of world records. It might be worth its weight in gold to prep for a 30 or 60 minute consult, with him.
https://calendly.com/zbittercoaching

The later videos are more about running on this channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/HumanPerformanceOutliersPodcast/videos

Roggg said:

Thanks all for the feedback.
@jjraak I had a quick peak, and it looks like there's a lot of overlap. I'm going to dig a little deeper when. get some time.

@Goonergal, first of all, wow. Great work on the endurance walking. That's impressive. Next, thanks for sharing your experiences. It is helpful. My time scales might be a little different, but there is overlap. Strictly speaking "long distance running" usually refers to 5k or longer. I'm running 5k-10k right now, but I'm interested in running a half-marathon within the next year, so I expect to be running long runs this summer of between 15 and 20 km. These will be done at "easy pace" which for me means about 7min/km. So I will max out somewhere at or above 2 hour sessions. Training also involves shorter speed related workouts, so nutrition might be different for interval workouts than for long runs.
Also thanks for the pointer to the 100 mile project. It's very cool, and helps sort out the viability of running without carbs.

@HSSS thanks for the reference. Actually Phinney is my favourite "keto advocate" on YouTube, but I haven't followed Volek that closely. I will definitely order and read.

@Mbaker Yeah I ran across Zach's content already. It's pretty much exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned periodized diets. So I am digging through his content, but for me, keto is non-negotiable, so I dont know how relevant it will turn out to be.

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I challenged my younger brother just over 3 years ago and was able walk 80,000 steps without eating. I would have been fat adapted by then. We are both super competitive and he was fit from cycling. I only won by around 10,000 steps - he ate and I didn't. This wasn't flat out, but there was presure in knowing he was close.