Ketones

[Charlie Tudgay]

Ive never really had high ketone levels even when I was diagnosed. I was diagnosed with my ketone level at 0.6mmol/L and ever since has always read LO or 0.2 mmol/L and never higher. Until today 0.8mmol/L!!! (I know this isn't a dangerous level but it's still in the caution area) It's the highest I've ever been but my bloods have been absolutely fine for over a week.

I have been eating slightly less carbs so don't know if that's why? I'm worried as to why it's so high. Does any one have any ideas?

Thank you

 

[noblehead]

Not sure if your in dietary ketosis when you say your eating slightly less carbs.

However, with a level of 0.8 its best to keep an eye on things and test your bg and ketones regularly, have a read of the following about ketone testing which you should find useful:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes_care/testing-for-ketones.html

 

[robert72]

If you are eating less carbs, then you could be in dietary ketosis.

As long as your blood sugars remain in normal range there is nothing to worry about at those levels.

 

[masonbason63]

I remember when earlier days of gastroporiasis I would get lengthy periods of hardly eating much let alone carbs and would go into DKA moderate to high ketones with a normal-ish blood sugar reading there's a name for this term/condition but I can't bloody remember it, the main thing is and I have done it before it's :-

Up fluids as much as possible

Bolus to keep levels as per normal

And eat regular, small portions if possible and some carbs

Test regularly I'd say 1-2 hours

I'm not saying it's a right way but I've personally found it worked for me but if after 24 hours it hasn't cleared see you DSN as the last thing you want is hospital.

Even now and again I have periods of not eating for a long time my basal works perfect and bloods are fine but the longer I go the trace of keytones appear steadily getting higher the longer it goes on

 

[masonbason63]

Not sure if your in dietary ketosis when you say your eating slightly less carbs.

However, with a level of 0.8 its best to keep an eye on things and test your bg and ketones regularly, have a read of the following about ketone testing which you should find useful:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes_care/testing-for-ketones.html

That's it dietary ketosis

 

[Charlie Tudgay]

Thank you guys. Just put in for some more strips and told to just drink lots

 

[LucySW]

Thank you guys. Just put in for some more strips and told to just drink lots

But dietary ketosis - as opposed to ketoACIDosis - isn't anything to worry about. It's what many athletes try to get into.

No need to worry if you are testing your BG and its normal range. Danger not possible unless BG is high and insulin insufficient.

 

[Riri]

Blood sugars can be in normal range and ketoacidtosis can occur. It more usually presents itself with high blood sugars but not always so just to be aware of that fact.

 

[LucySW]

Blood sugars can be in normal range and ketoacidtosis can occur. It more usually presents itself with high blood sugars but not always so just to be aware of that fact.

Can you substantiate that @Riri?

Everything I have read indicates that DKA is the result of insufficient insulin to process blood glucose (or generate fatty acids for that matter) over a prolonged period of time. Then the body starts to break down muscle matter into ketones, in effect to digest itself. The blood becomes increasingly acidic, and death can result.

As opposed to dietary ketosis from fasting or from a ketogenic diet, when BG is in the normal range, when the metabolism has fat-adapted. The two - ketosis and ketoacidosis - are quite distinct in causation and process.

If you have it on good authority that that's wrong, please share.

 

[Riri]

I was told by my DSN that when I'm ill sugars may not be high but I should test for ketones. That very thing happened to me when I had a very bad stomach bug Xmas before last - sugars were at 6ish but ketones up at 1.8. I was being phoned my hosp team every 3/4 hours and told that if they kept rising, I would need to be admitted. My blood sugars did not go over 8 the whole time. I don't claim to be any expert on this - I'm just speaking from experience and what I've been told by my diabetes team. I use a pump so again this may be different to those using MDI.

 

[robert72]

Can you substantiate that @Riri?

Everything I have read indicates that DKA is the result of insufficient insulin to process blood glucose (or generate fatty acids for that matter) over a prolonged period of time. Then the body starts to break down muscle matter into ketones, in effect to digest itself. The blood becomes increasingly acidic, and death can result. They are quite distinct in causation and process.

If you have it on good authority that that's wrong, please share.

Hi Lucy

There is a condition called Euglycaemic diabetic ketoacidosis, which can be caused by starvation.

If you were a diabetic and had, say, gastro-enteritis and not been able to eat for a few days, then you could begin uncontrolled production of ketones leading to acidosis, but your ketone levels would be very high.

 

[jack412]

Riri, it could be dehydration with the tummy bug

 

[Emmotha]

How many carbs a day do you have now?

I get ketones at 60 carbs or less, up to 1.5, from fat burning.

Keep checking but if you're eating and feeling ok + good BG levels don't worry. Stay hydrated

 

[Charlie Tudgay]

How many carbs a day do you have now?

I get ketones at 60 carbs or less, up to 1.5, from fat burning.

Keep checking but if you're eating and feeling ok + good BG levels don't worry. Stay hydrated

I have only been eating about 60-80g carbs a day so yeah maybe my ketones are high because of that.

Is there a way to reduce the amount of ketone without eating more carbs. Put on a stone since T1D diagnosis 11 months ago so want to get back to a nice weight but seams ketones are getting in the way!

 

[noblehead]

I was told by my DSN that when I'm ill sugars may not be high but I should test for ketones. That very thing happened to me when I had a very bad stomach bug Xmas before last - sugars were at 6ish but ketones up at 1.8. I was being phoned my hosp team every 3/4 hours and told that if they kept rising, I would need to be admitted. My blood sugars did not go over 8 the whole time. I don't claim to be any expert on this - I'm just speaking from experience and what I've been told by my diabetes team. I use a pump so again this may be different to those using MDI.

Sure @phoenix wrote a good post on this subject last year where you can have high ketone levels with normal bg levels.

 

[Emmotha]

I lost 4kg in a month when started low carb and had ketones. Ketones are natural and safe when burning fat on a low carb diet as long as your BG is good and you feel well

U will get ketones because they're a by product of fat burning. They only go dangerously high with not enough insulin because ur body can't get any energy from protein or carbs to fuel itself and burns too much fat too fast

 

[LucySW]

I was told by my DSN that when I'm ill sugars may not be high but I should test for ketones. That very thing happened to me when I had a very bad stomach bug Xmas before last - sugars were at 6ish but ketones up at 1.8. I was being phoned my hosp team every 3/4 hours and told that if they kept rising, I would need to be admitted. My blood sugars did not go over 8 the whole time. I don't claim to be any expert on this - I'm just speaking from experience and what I've been told by my diabetes team. I use a pump so again this may be different to those using MDI.

Riri and Rob: ow! sounds not nice.

Let's ask @phoenix to repost that explanation. My Ketonix tests for ketones with a ppm acetone breath measure, but I can't find a conversion formula. Don't see how acidosis could start if insulin was present.

 

[bellabella]

My ketones are now 1.7 and have been in and around this value for the last week since starting lchf two weeks ago.... Not due to starvation/ gastroenteritis or anything like that....bg levels great so does this indicate that I'm now fat adapted and using far for energy in the absence of carbs or is it a bit soon into lchf to see ketosis adaptation occurring?

 

[robert72]

My ketones are now 1.7 and have been in and around this value for the last week since starting lchf two weeks ago.... Not due to starvation/ gastroenteritis or anything like that....bg levels great so does this indicate that I'm now fat adapted and using far for energy in the absence of carbs or is it a bit soon into lchf to see ketosis adaptation occurring?

That's about what I would expect to see in nutritional ketosis

 

[Charlie Tudgay]

At what level would your ketones need to be to go into a coma?