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Lantus Users

Discussion in 'Insulin' started by tim2000s, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. K-ate

    K-ate Type 1 · Member

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    I changed to 4mm needles about a year ago; I also switched to injecting in my stomach for my humalog, having only ever done it in my thighs or occasionally arms before. I do my lantus in my thighs still as the dosage feels too large to do in my stomach. I don't have any lumps or bumps around sites but you're right, it is something to consider
     
  2. noblehead

    noblehead Type 1 · Guru
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    Don't forget you can also inject in your bum, I use to inject my lantus in their or my legs.
     
  3. nmr1991

    nmr1991 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I just been wondering as a lantus user that if its possible to just not inject lantus at all and just do my novorapid. I see alot of pump users who only have the novorapid in their pump but never do their basal, shouldn't it be the same with injections?
     
  4. noblehead

    noblehead Type 1 · Guru
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    Pump users set a basal rate that pumps small increments of QA insulin into the body throughout the day which acts like a basal insulin on MDI, you would struggle to get good control if you stopped your basal dose and it could be highly dangerous and lead to DKA.
     
  5. Nicola M

    Nicola M Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Lantus agrees with me anymore. Quick backstory, started on 1 dose of Lantus in the morning of 24 but kept going high the next morning so switched to split doses. Worked fine for the first 6 months but now I have had to switch back to just a morning dose of 17. I was literally doing just 4 units of Lantus at night time and kept getting low blood sugars. Yesterday evening I did a fasting Lantus check and at 7pm I was 15.4 then at 9pm I was 9.6 It kinda worries me spoke to my diabetes team and to be fair they seem worried about the sudden drops too. Lantus just disagrees with me for some reason :(
     
  6. Missy Cat

    Missy Cat Other · Member

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    Blimey this is quite a shock to read!

    I was diagnosed only in October 2014 so I am very new to all this. I was initially on glicazide but my HCPs at the hospital decided I needed insulin so put me on Lantus alone. That was not enough on its own so then came the bolus, Humalog, which seems to work quite well.

    What I have struggled with is the night time hypos. I started with my 10u of Lantus dose at 11pm and was having Hypos around 5-6am. My DSN recommended to move the dose to earlier so changed it to 9pm and since then have been hypos around 2-3am. This happens way too often and have already booked another appoint with my DSN to discuss this.

    Obviously been new to all this I am quite nervous about changing my medication. However I am keen to get this resolved... I am shattered the following morning and it then plays havoc with me when I'm tired at work. I knew the hypos we're going to be unpleasant but have been surprised just how awful it leaves you feeling afterwards.

    Are there many other alternatives to Lantus? I will definitely be discussing his thread with my DSN.

    Thank you all for the useful information! This forum is a a godsend :)
     
  7. Missy Cat

    Missy Cat Other · Member

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    Ooh forgot to mention I inject my Lantus either in my thigh or buttock and my Humalog in my tummy! ;)
     
  8. lizdeluz

    lizdeluz Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    This is very interesting. I've been on Lantus for a long time, and have improved my overall control by low-carbing. I do get quite a lot of 'unexplained' results. I usually inject in my stomach because I get bruises if I use arms or legs, and presume that this may indicate dodgy absorption? Can anyone link us to any documentation of problems with Lantus? It's not just a well-kept secret amongst Health Care Professionals, I hope.
    To be honest, I often feel that good control is wishful thinking on the part of HCPs. We PWDs have so many plates in the air, it's not funny. I'm always impressed by how so many forum contributors seem to be able to deduce reasons for effects from:
    • Type of insulin and whether it does what it says on the tin
    • Time of day: evening/night basal or morning basal
    • Time of Bolus injections,: 10 minutes before, 30 minutes before, on the dot, post meal ..., correction doses
    • Injection sites
    • Insulin past it's sell-by date, much more of an issue for me now that I inject tinier amounts
    • Diet
    • Activity/Exercise
    • Stress
    • Effect of other conditions, eg thyroid deficiency, obesity, on insulin absorption
    I inject 18 units of Lantus before breakfast, and I keep my bs on an even keel (usually) by fairly strict low-carbing. My Basal/Bolus is fairly near 50:50 each day. I still get lows and highs that I can't explain, it's always a let-down because I like to feel in control. I feel that no consultant or HCP can really help: how could they possibly assess all the variables, all the plates in the air? Can they do more than make a stab in the dark suggestion?

    Having said that, I find it really useful to read of others' experiences, on the forum. I would like to know whether there's a sufficient weight of evidence against Lantus and whether I should ask for a replacement Basal insulin.
     
  9. tim2000s

    tim2000s Type 1 · Expert
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    If you raise the topic with your diabetic consultant, I'm fairly sure they will understand completely. The one I spoke with did....
     
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  10. noblehead

    noblehead Type 1 · Guru
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    Not sure there is, the big concern a few years ago was the cancer scare, but that was unfounded and it has since been put to bed.

    However if you feel that lantus isn't working for you or you have some concerns then you have every right to ask for a change of basal insulin, the new one (Tresiba) seems to have a fairly flat profile and the members on here who are using it report good results, so do ask away.
     
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  11. RuthW

    RuthW Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I had many of these problems with Lantus, but I also had them with Insulatard before that. When they switched me to lantus, it was presented as the answer to my prayers. The diabetes nurse told me, "it's much better than insulatard. Insulatard's absorption is erratic. With Lantus, you can go to bed with your blood sugar at 5, and wake up with it at 5." Never! I had to carb load before bed for years. And then it doesn't last past about 7 in the evening, so for me it was more of an 18 or twenty-hour insulin.

    I can honestly say that this insulin change was the final straw in my relation with the NHS. I gave up on trying to control my diabetes really. I was so disgusted at what the nurse said. I had been struggling and failing on insulatard for years and years, and nobody ever mentioned it might not be my "fault". So then when I found the night time hypos with Lantus, I just assumed it was another wild craze among medics and nurses, that they are a load of sociopathic bull*****ers and I stopped going to the hospital. My GP "supervised" me, i.e. Prescribed without bothering me. When I moved to Turkey, I went to a private hospital, made huge efforts again (with a doctor, not a nurse) and we concluded, together, that it was impossible for me to control my diabetes on MDI, in spite of all my efforts ( I have always done a minimum of four tests, often six, per day, exercised and eaten very sparingly). I switched to a pump and bingo! Three months later my HB is hitting 6.5 already. And it's easy. I loathe Lantus! And I loathe the marketing of the latest "craze".
     
  12. tim2000s

    tim2000s Type 1 · Expert
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    Had an interesting experience this morning. Got on my bike and rode to work for the first time since I changed from Lantus to Levemir. Prior to getting on my bike, glucose level was 7.1

    Now historically, if I was at that level on Lantus, i would have eaten 15g of carbs before getting on my bike as I would normally expect that after 7 miles, by BG levels would have fallen to hypo levels (although not always). On the Levemir, I figured that I'd be more likely to see an increase so I left it.

    Lo and behold, I got to work and had the predictable increase in BG levels that I expected had occurred. Cue the rapid insulin shot to deal with it.

    So it seems that the way that Lantus works comes into play again, and that pool of crystalline insulin used to be massively catalysed by cycling, which of course used the leg muscles extensively.

    This just adds to my realisations that I really wasn't able to manage my levels very well using Lantus, and it amazes me that I ever maintained an Hba1C level of 7% on it given what I've since learned.
     
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  13. Celsus

    Celsus Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I wish some of you would refer to controlled studies confirming the claims.
    There have been almost 'religious' kind of wars among believers going on between the Levemir and Lantus camps, no doubt fuelled by their respective rich manufacturers and commercial staff. That Johnny eats a banana and is hit by a roof tile when walking out the door does not mean that bananas necessarily are bad. Just as the cancer scare on Lantus that was brought up in the UK a while back was all bogus.
    If so, the product would have been scrutinized and pulled from market. Probably why there are no known when and whos...

    Neither are the typical diabetes clinics. :)
    And I wholeheartedly agree that diabetics should absolutely and with no hesitation bring feedback to the source if experiencing anything abnormal.

    Will politely have to disagree with you on this one, as all clinical studies have shown the opposite:
    1. Levemir has a taller peak 4-6 hours after injection compared to Lantus, which has almost none.
    2. Lantus is effective with stable curve 4-8 hours longer than Levemir, which has trailing ramp-down in comparison.
    And for your last comment: Lantus is typically active for 18-26 hours in most people, where end-effect trails out fast, so you can easily change dose according to your daily planning. Please also note that taking Levemir/Lantus in the morning is actually the optimal, for short-term planning mode of life, if that is your priority. And please note that I am not religious myself. We are all different and find what best works for us. I am all for it. But please lets stop promoting unconfirmed claims/rumours.
     
  14. Heathenlass

    Heathenlass Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect, I was commenting on this thread from the perspective of my own experiences with Lantus , my own conversations with HCP's and also, stating my own opinions . That's not quite the same as " promoting unconfirmed claims/rumours " ;)

    Signy
     
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  15. Celsus

    Celsus Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    No hard feelings Signy,
    I do get your drift. :)

    It was probably this one that took me out on a tangent:
    As you ended the story with... but nobody knows who, how, when, why... Which then leaves one behind to say, how dare the DNS then even to mention it??? That is scaremongering and spreading unsubstantiated rumours. Does not belong to anything a certified care provider should ever be part of. And you unfortunately cared to spread it further. Using the same non-compliant DNS's as source.
     
  16. tim2000s

    tim2000s Type 1 · Expert
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    If you have a dig about on the web, there are a couple of local health authority guideline papers that state that lantus is no longer recommended for use as a long acting insulin. I'll have to dig one out.
     
  17. Heathenlass

    Heathenlass Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Gotcha :)
    Slight correction there though ( hell,I'm a woman, gotta have the last word !;) ) You misquoted me somewhat in your last post , which changes the context of what I was saying. What I actually said in that erlier post was :

    " Oh you are not alone in experiencing this :(
    According to my DSN , there have been concerns raised nationwide by endocrinologists and diabeteologists , but where when and who with I don't know. Whatever the outcome, it seems many are now voting with their feet."

    This was on the context of Lantus not being prescribed in my area anymore, and the tail end of the sentence was that *I * do not know where or when concerns were raised, or who with, as this was not brought up in the conversation. The whole sentence was NOT a quotation from my DSN :)

    That's a little different from you quoting me as ending the story with " ...but no one knows who , how,when and why .... and the DSN was not actually scaremongering or being non compliant , she was being factual, as was I in the context of my own experience with Lantus no longer being prescribed.

    I hope that is clearer :)

    Signy
     
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  18. Celsus

    Celsus Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    How can she be that, when she was not giving any facts but forwarding unsubstantiated rumours to you?
    (you say yourself, that she did not quote source on who when etc)
    Sorry, I am lost in your logics of argumentation.
    And yourself repeating it out.

    scaremonger (plural scaremongers)
    Someone who spreads worrying rumours or needlessly alarms people

    Does not align with the professonal care givers code of conduct:
    www.nmc-uk.org/Code

    => Non compliant DNS.

    I am not so alarmed by you Signy, we are both together in this boat called Diabetes, but concerned when observing how professional care givers are misusing their trusted positions and/or not acting to the minimum required standards.
     
  19. jgordon5

    jgordon5 · Well-Known Member

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    My experiences with Lantus weren't good either so it obviously doesn't suit some people at all. It wasn't just the lack of control for me, it felt as if I was living in a bubble; as if I couldn't wake up somehow. Switched to Levemir and it really suits me.
     
  20. Ralph sloothby

    Ralph sloothby Type 2 · Newbie

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    Hi very interested in this pump idea nobody has ever mentioned it to me i currently take 52 units of lantis before bed nova rapid
    morn 20units / lunch 10 units / evening meal 18 units plus 4 x 500mg metformin and had hba1c last week witch came up at 83 in new measurment i think about 17 in old money, feel tired and lethargic all the time aching bones numb feet and finger ends been type 2 for 30 years am now 64.
    o
    Only just joined this forum but it's kind of nice in a funny way to know your not alone not that i wish this on anyone else many regards Ralph
     
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