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LCHF and the NHS

Is this of any help?

http://www.dietdoctor.com/science
 
The NHS as others have said is a dinosaur and like a liner takes 10-20 years to turn around. Many (most?) dieticians just repeat the mantra they had on training and sadly it's not evidence based and largely wrong. The concern I have with the LCHF acronym is that it says LC which is great but also says HF which isn't essential i.e. you just need enough fats (AND proteins) to give you the calories and nutrients you need when low-carbing. Saying HF to any HCP will scare the hell out of them when they have been promoting low fat for so long so personally I would never use the term LCHF but just say low-carb together with adequate fats & proteins. Some suitable acronyms might be LCEF (Low Carb Enough Fat) or LCEFP (Low Carb and Enough Fat & Protein)
 
Last time I went to see my GP he remarked that I had lost weight and I told him I was eating a LCHF diet and he said that whatever works for me is fine. I expected him to criticize the high fat part but he didn't. I prefer to call it LCHF because to me this means that I eat natural fats, not the low fat manufactured products. It doesn't mean I have to eat butter, lard and cheese all day long, obviously I tailor it to my individual needs.
 
There is so much confusion and in my opinion a lot of the negative affects of a HF diet were seen along with a High Carb diet. Today High Carb Diet misses out on one crucial ingredient and that is not enough fiber - 50+g a day.

If you look at the Kaiser healthy plate 50% is veggies and fruit - veggies being the bigger portion - and 25% beans and grains and the rest protein and fats.

I don't know anything about the rest of you but if I ate that healthy diet my BG would be sky rocketing and I'd still have nerve damage to my feet and toes.

The bottom line is for me is that on my diet, my BS is under control, my neuropathies are healing, I have less hypos, and I feel wonderful mostly - I eat mostly veggies, fish, no dairy except butter and cream, nuts, and seeds and non sweet fruits.

Even if they could prove that this diet would kill me quicker, I'd still eat it because I would much rather die feeling fantastic with energy than die feeling like **** - the way I did before


Sent from Runner2009 Burt
 
I think this is the post you're referring to, scandichic:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/low-carb-diet-research.47980/

And here's one of the Swedish studies:

http://www.dmsjournal.com/content/pdf/1758-5996-4-23.pdf

I'm not sure anyone reads links that people put on here. In case you can't be ***** (I generally don't read links people put up), 100% of adherent patients had an hba1c in the 6s and reduced their insulin dose. You will struggle to see a stronger efficacy signal.

We can argue over studies until we're blue in the face, but the regrettable fact is that the most important efficacy signal is patient experience, which is generally ignored by the NHS at large, and by certain members of this forum who persist in arguing against it. Why can't people accept that eating fewer things that raise your sugar levels, gives you better sugar levels? Paradoxical, to say the least.

I feel like I spend most of my time on here defending low carbing. It would be nice if we could get back to supporting each others' daily grind with diabetes.
 
@SamJB

In away we are making it more complex than we need to.

First, what we know for sure and that is if you are a member of our club the higher your A1C s and the larger your post meal spikes, the more diabetic induced complications one is going to have.

The only disagreement is how low does one go before the benefits stop.

There are valid arguments on both side, but I believe as many others that the studies saying <6.5A1C have no benefit the data of the participants were misinterpreted and focused on cardiovascular events.

Common sense tells you if you can control your hypos then a BG as close to the normal level is best - Dr.Bernstein has strategies to help control hypos.

The only way to have low BG is with a LCHF diet and I'm not implying going overboard on the fat portion but being moderate.

For me right now case is closed and I'm not working about it

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
 
I think some consider LCHF very high in fat, but when considering all the fat fear/scare we lived with some decades one might consider it moderate to high. It's also important to stay away from the bad fat driving inflammations (like margarine, non-butter spreads, sunflower oil, safflower oil, canola oil etc) and here I think NHS and National Food Agency in Sweden as well as other authorities is reluctant to pick up new data and admit that good saturated fat like butter, lard and coconut oil is very fine.
 
It seems it was a decent review. Points to where the evidence is lacking, as in most places.

By the way, I like smoked herring. Is "smoking herrings" a common expression in English? If so, what does it mean?
 
But LCHF is high in fat, energy wise, isn't it? that's the whole point. As a diabetic I have to stay away from carbs so I eat fat instead and as I have a healthy appetite and work physically hard I need a lot of energy. So fat it is, as the point with LCHF is to keep protein intake normal. And I keep gaining muscle while loosing in bulk.
 
It is good that there is an increasing belief that saturated fats have little effect on increasing cholesterol levels too.
 
SJC said:
It is good that there is an increasing belief that saturated fats have little effect on increasing cholesterol levels too.
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You are wrong. It isn't about belief, it is about science and the science that supposedly said saturated fat is bad was false, or rather, a mere assumption and since proved wrong. A cause for happiness!
 
I meant belief because of the science!!
 
I mean there is more emerging proof than ever before that they all got it wrong. I just don't understand why it's taking so long for the penny to drop in this country and to re-educate professionals. Personally I am getting confused about all of it. The LCHF, the cholesterol thing, all of it. I think nobody fully understands what's best for us generally speaking.
 
I know it is confusing and all. What we as diabetics know is that however dangerous fats might be (and there is not risk there, rest assured) , high bg is worse. As to the risks of high bg there is a host of evidence.
 
Sadly this is true
 
Totto said:
By the way, I like smoked herring. Is "smoking herrings" a common expression in English? If so, what does it mean?
Click to expand...
I like smoked herring too.

Alas I just made the expression up to make fun of Swedes and Scandis. In English you can say "smoking [whatever]" which means hallucinating. So no sorry it was just my attempt at a joke to lighten the mood. As was "Swedish Vulcan Science Council ".
 
Totto said:
I know it is confusing and all. What we as diabetics know is that however dangerous fats might be (and there is not risk there, rest assured) , high bg is worse. As to the risks of high bg there is a host of evidence.
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Totto

I agree 100% about the risk of high bs especially with our crowd far outweighs the risk of fats.

I think you just use common sense and moderation in fat intake, plus since we are (should not be ) eating less much sucrose then we are eating a lower fat diet because a chunk of the fructose is metabolized like fat

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
 
Risk? It's true that we don't know what the long term risk of putting diabetics on a low-carbohydrate diet is.

However, we do absolutely know the risk of feeding high-carbohydrate diets to diabetics. They deteriorate and suffer complications NO MATTER WHAT MEDICATION you feed them to mediate the effects.



So we're forced to stick with an approach that we know doesn't work for sure, because there MIGHT BE some risk (for which there is no actual evidence) for the alternative approach that we know is successful in short term trials.
 
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Yes absolutely we need to get some fuel and fat is a much better fuel than carbs even for non-diabetics and to be able to stay on a life style change don't want to call it a diet) you need manage satiety, best way with fat, good fats.
 
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