Lchf induced insulin resistance

[Applenerd81]

So, just a heads up for those on LCHF and thinking of having a cheat day...

Been very low carb since Jan 7th this year for weight and BG control and it's been great thus far. Thought I'd have a measured lunch of rice and king prawns just for old times sake yesterday and I've only just recovered from the BG rollecoaster.

Moral of the story? If your low carbing and plan on having an excursion from your normal routine be prepared for some unpredictable results, you may need a lot more insulin then normal (for your first few carb laden meals??). I'm back to LCHF now

 

[vit90]

Yes I have read elsewhere that you need to wean yourself off LCHF gently if you are looking to add more carbs to your diet, even if let's say you have done something like the Newcastle diet and achieved very good results (T2 only - I think you are T1?). You need to avoid shocking the system.

 

[Applenerd81]

Yes, T1,definitely a shock to the system, my 7day average BG of 5.6 is no more!

 

[Applenerd81]

I think my body has forgotten how to process insulin&carbs... ;-)

 

[Phlogiston]

This could be why NHS people counsel against completely cutting the carbs.
It's a difficult balance.

Adam

 

[vit90]

This could be why NHS people counsel against completely cutting the carbs.
It's a difficult balance.

Adam

It's impossible to completely cut out carbs. But if you are T2 diabetic and want to control your BG adequately you have to radically reduce your carbs in my opinion. I don't think eating even moderate amounts of so-called 'good' unprocessed low GI carbs is enough until the underlying factors in one's diabetes (body fat, fitness, insulin resistance, etc.) have been improved. My aim is to get back to a near normal level of insulin sensitivity and BG control so that I can eat carbs without risk of BG spikes - before I get an avalanche of 'pie in the sky' responses I do accept this is not a given at all but that is what I am aiming for. Even if I do achieve that I certainly won't be eating carbs the way I used to and will continue what many non-diabetics would regard as a low carb diet (small amounts of carb foods fairly occasionally). But compare that to now when I basically don't eat any foods with more than a small level of carbs and I try to limit carbs to 30g a day - around 10x less than I used to eat on average. If you have T2 it does seem to me from what I have read that cutting down on carbs when you are first diagnosed is simply not enough to prevent steady decline in your condition; you need to be much more radical. And you need to improve fitness and shed visceral body fat.

 

[Phlogiston]

I have radically cut carbs. I aim for pretty low carbs at breakfast (just what's in the cherry tomato in my scrambled egg) and lunch (salad + ham/ cheese fish) and much reduced carbs for evening meal.

The meter has now arrived and I will be playing with it soon.

Adam

 

[LucySW]

Why was @vit90's post edited by a moderator?

 

[vit90]

Why was @vit90's post edited by a moderator?

Maybe a typo correction - the text seems unaffected to me.

 

[graj0]

This could be why NHS people counsel against completely cutting the carbs.
It's a difficult balance.

Adam

Agree 100%, doctors also realise that most people (a lot) can't stick to it anyway.

 

[Applenerd81]

Or that the dietary advice provided is sponsored by drug companies who have a vested interest in you using more of their drugs?

Check out this years DAFNE sponsors.


Perhaps Lurpak/Kerrygold could sponsor a LCHF course!

 

[Applenerd81]

It's impossible to completely cut out carbs. But if you are T2 diabetic and want to control your BG adequately you have to radically reduce your carbs in my opinion. I don't think eating even moderate amounts of so-called 'good' unprocessed low GI carbs is enough until the underlying factors in one's diabetes (body fat, fitness, insulin resistance, etc.) have been improved. My aim is to get back to a near normal level of insulin sensitivity and BG control so that I can eat carbs without risk of BG spikes - before I get an avalanche of 'pie in the sky' responses I do accept this is not a given at all but that is what I am aiming for. Even if I do achieve that I certainly won't be eating carbs the way I used to and will continue what many non-diabetics would regard as a low carb diet (small amounts of carb foods fairly occasionally). But compare that to now when I basically don't eat any foods with more than a small level of carbs and I try to limit carbs to 30g a day - around 10x less than I used to eat on average. If you have T2 it does seem to me from what I have read that cutting down on carbs when you are first diagnosed is simply not enough to prevent steady decline in your condition; you need to be much more radical. And you need to improve fitness and shed visceral body fat.

You make some good points. As a diabetic, I would consider it better to treat yourself as carb intolerant (esp T2).

I have recently read that being overweight / unfit have recently been found to not be causes of (t2) diabetes, merely symptoms of insulin resistance.

Both of which (weight/insulin resistance) can be reversed if the carbohydrate intake is minimised/eliminated as much as possible. Visceral fat and fitness will naturally improve as a result!

 

[Spiker]

This could be why NHS people counsel against completely cutting the carbs.
It's a difficult balance.

Adam

No, they don't have a clue about details like this. NHS opposition is much less well informed than that. :-/

 

[Spiker]

(duplicate post)

 

[Applenerd81]

Can someone confirm if this LCHF induced resistance is reversible?! I'm a little worried in case it's not! I may want to eat some carbs at some stage again!!

 

[smidge]

I'm not at all convinced by the assertion that LCHF makes you more insulin resistant. Not really seen any evidence. My theory on why some Type 1s seem to tolerate Carbs less well and need more bolus for Carbs when they've been low- carbing is that they have reduced their basal insulin and so no longer have the background coverage to deal with the higher background BG level that we have when eating high carb meals. So they have to use more bolus to compensate. Anyone who has gone from high to low carb will know they have had to reduce their basal dose, so it stands to reason that increasing the Carbs will increase the background level and hence require more basal. Focussing on bolus to carb ratios is only one of the factors. This is one of the very many ways DAFNE is flawed - the basal dose for a higher carb diet needs to be higher - not just the matching of the bolus dose.

Just a theory.

Smidge

 

[Spiker]

I'm very much not convinced that there is such a thing as LCHF induced insulin resistance either.

 

[noblehead]

I'm very much not convinced that there is such a thing as LCHF induced insulin resistance either.

I'm not so sure Spiker, there's been a couple of members on this forum who have experienced it first hand.

 

[Applenerd81]

Smidge, my basal did initially drop, but went back up to original levels after a few weeks on LCHF (within 0.5 units in 24hrs)

With a recent carby meal I needed near enough twice the previous bolus for carbs so something is definitely not right, the only way I can confirm is if I go back to carbs for a while, won't be doing that for a while.

Hoping someone else has and things have settled back after a few days... ? :-/

 

[LucySW]

My insulin TDD goes up and down. First it went up, as I started bolusing, from 7 to 12 or 13 units a day, currently it's down to 10 or so. Obviously my needs change a bit. I wouldn't worry.