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LCHF questions

sklane11

sklane11

Member
Messages
22
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi! I've been looking into LCHF diets for Type 1 diabetes and am quite interested in giving it ago, although have some questions and wondered if there's anyone here who understands it better than I do that may be able to help!

For example - if by low carbing your body is in a state on natural ketosis and, for example you forgot to inject or your pump stopped working and your bg's went very high - does this automatically put you at risk of dangerous ketoacidosis due to the elevated ketones in your blood? Or does it not work like this?

Also, if whilst low carbing you wanted to have a 'cheat' and go out for a carby meal, drink too much wine etc (we're all human!) - even if you dose insulin accordingly, would this completely mess up the natural ketosis and your bg's or can you get away with the odd carb overload?

Thanks in advance!
 
sklane11 said:
For example - if by low carbing your body is in a state on natural ketosis and, for example you forgot to inject or your pump stopped working and your bg's went very high - does this automatically put you at risk of dangerous ketoacidosis due to the elevated ketones in your blood? Or does it not work like this?
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Tricky one this as it's difficult to give an answer as each person is different. I think the best way to look at it is that if your blood glucose was high and your ketone level higher than normal when in ketosis then you would need to be concerned, but everyone has their own thresholds.

sklane11 said:
Also, if whilst low carbing you wanted to have a 'cheat' and go out for a carby meal, drink too much wine etc (we're all human!) - even if you dose insulin accordingly, would this completely mess up the natural ketosis and your bg's or can you get away with the odd carb overload?
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Typically, if you cheat you push yourself out of ketosis. There are exceptions to this rule. The key one is when you are in deficit following a glycogen intensive training session. You can eat some carbs after one of these, but you need, again, to test to see where your thresholds are.
 
-A low carb diet would potentially make you less of a risk for DKA as you're avoiding the primary source of blood sugar spikes (carbs). Note: that does not mean you should ever consider skipping injections, and you will find that you still need insulin even on an ultra-low carb diet. DKA is still a risk, but you would have to go without insulin and completely ignore significant hyperglycemia for that to be a serious risk.

-I occasionally do "cheat" although that's not the way I look at it (I simply choose not to low-carb for a day or two). Unfortunately, you may find that when you do this you are more sensitive to carbohydrates and your insulin needs may be significantly higher for several days after that event. To put it into perspective, I enjoyed the food at my cousin's wedding several weeks back and chose not to adhere to my low-carb diet. My insulin needs that day were about 4x greater than a normal day of low carb (note: I'm still in the honeymoon phase and my pancreas produces some insulin). For 2-3 days after, I still needed a significant amount of insulin before my body's natural insulin needs reduced to reflect my low-carb diet.

In short, nutritional ketosis is completely different from DKA, and try to avoid "cheat" days as much as possible because it will bring you out of ketosis and it may take several days to get back to it again.
 
Thank you both! Sorry I meant nutritional ketosis instead of natural (shows how much I know about this...!) May I ask if you personally Keto or just follow a low carb diet TorqPenderloin? A low carb diet definitely helps my blood sugars and I feel like it is a realistic option for me, but sounds as if a nutritional ketosis diet is very strict and I'm guilty of enjoying a few drinks and food treats every now and then!
 
sklane11 said:
Thank you both! Sorry I meant nutritional ketosis instead of natural (shows how much I know about this...!) May I ask if you personally Keto or just follow a low carb diet TorqPenderloin? A low carb diet definitely helps my blood sugars and I feel like it is a realistic option for me, but sounds as if a nutritional ketosis diet is very strict and I'm guilty of enjoying a few drinks and food treats every now and then!
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Good question, the best answer I have for you is that it depends for me.

Currently, yes, I am in ketosis as I have a goal of dropping down to 10% body fat. However, when I'm bulking (trying to gain muscle) I increase my protein intake that will take me out of ketosis and allow me to gain weight.

Note: I'm at about 12-13% body fat at the moment and I have to be very precise about my approach. However, that's not necessary for most people and many find that they can lose weight on a low carb diet even without being in ketosis.

I don't want to overcomplicate things, but there are approaches such as the CKD (Cyclical Keto Diet) that intentionally take you out of ketosis (usually at the time you go to the gym). However, that's a very high level diet for someone with a ton of knowledge and experience about the approach.
 
I don't want to overcomplicate things, but there are approaches such as the CKD (Cyclical Keto Diet) that intentionally take you out of ketosis (usually at the time you go to the gym). However, that's a very high level diet for someone with a ton of knowledge and experience about the approach.
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Yes, if you do take this approach you need to be confident with insulin as it becomes a balancing act between insulin, carbs and stress induced from resistance training and is easy to get totally wrong!
 
Ok thanks! I think I'll will continue trying with a low carb diet and exercise! Since having a freestyle libre I've been able to monitor everything much more easily too so hopefully can keep up the good numbers this way. Thanks for the advice!
 
Hi all-new to all this. saw this thread on some LCHF info and just had a few questions as this is the approach im starting if you don't mind helping.

I'm T1 (diagnosed last December) and currently on levimir (14units am and PM) and carb count for novo rapid. If I have breakfast with no carbs (usually egg and spinach/asparagus) I don't inject? Is that right? I excercise 3/4 times a week but prior to starting low carb I put on weight and felt like I didn't have a clue and was just told to inject more and more. I want to have more control and feel LCHF is a good route for me.

My worry is that my BG readings still spike to sometimes 15 when I have no carb meal and therefore
No insulin? Any ideas or does it just take a while to settle? Any help appreciated
Reply
#2214m ago
 
Hi! I personally wouldn't inject on a carb free meal like that so may be an idea to review your basal/Levimir amounts if you are spiking like that?
 
I give myself a bolus correction pretty much every single morning now as my blood sugar will spike up to about 10-11 without eating anything that morning. I have yet to confirm, but it's likely the result of either dawn phenomenon or the residual effects of my high protein diet.

Mornings are always the toughest for me because my blood sugar rises as soon as I wake up, will rise further if I go for a fun, and then will drop like a stone afterwards

Edit- here is a sample screenshot of my Dexcom that shows the spike at 6am.
ImageUploadedByDCUK Forum1460027890.664187.jpg
 
@TorqPenderloin As with most people, you can see the morning increase in glucose starting at about 2/3amish. It then accelerates towards when you get up. What is probably happening (and again happens for most people) is that it is timed with your Levemir exhausting.

In discussing this with a couple of the consultants at my clinic, their preferred approach to dealing with it is to inject levemir on rising rather than wait till later in the morning or take fast acting on rising, in the theory that the overlap will reduce the DP effect.

As we mostly know, this doesn't particularly help...
 
Jennystokes82 said:
Hi all-new to all this. saw this thread on some LCHF info and just had a few questions as this is the approach im starting if you don't mind helping.

I'm T1 (diagnosed last December) and currently on levimir (14units am and PM) and carb count for novo rapid. If I have breakfast with no carbs (usually egg and spinach/asparagus) I don't inject? Is that right? I excercise 3/4 times a week but prior to starting low carb I put on weight and felt like I didn't have a clue and was just told to inject more and more. I want to have more control and feel LCHF is a good route for me.

My worry is that my BG readings still spike to sometimes 15 when I have no carb meal and therefore
No insulin? Any ideas or does it just take a while to settle? Any help appreciated
Reply
#2214m ago
Click to expand...
You still have to bolus even if your meal is carb free. Protein has an effect too and if you aren't eating carbs your body looks for other sources to convert into glucose which is essentially what we all need for energy. The saying is that there is no such thing as a free meal when you are a diabetic and this is very true. Generally I work with about a third less insulin for protein than I do than for carbs but you have to get your own levels by trial and error.
What you will find is that if you eat protein with carbs you don't generally have to include it in your insulin calculations but if you don't eat carbs then you do.
 
Thanks for all your replies everyone. Didn't know that protein worked against us too! Lots to learn. I'll test test and test for the next few weeks and try and see what works best
 
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