Libre problem

[tigger]

I just got a libre and with some trepidation given a very bad run with the enlite sensor inserted the first. It was initially wonderful. Painless insertion, pretty accurate readings (0.3-0.8) difference and it was amazing to catch the trends and give my fingers a rest. I did a couple of tests to check accuracy but it seemed to be brilliant until just before bed on the 2nd day when it read 1mml diff higher than my meter. Over night i hypoed and when i woke up it said i was hypoing again at 3.2. I tested and it was 4. The trend looked downwards. I treated for another hypo and 2 hrs later was 12.2 or according to the libre 15.3. I had more variant readings over the day but then overnight i had anothet false trend. At 5.18 the libre said i was 10.4 and my meter said 9. I bolused. 2 hrs later the libre was holding constant around 9.7 but the meter had gone down to 7.3 which is what i expected.

I've called abbot and had a really frustrating call with a handler who is sending me some strips to check the libre.

Has anyone else had this experience and if so could it be solved?

 

[GrantGam]

I found my Libre to be pretty inaccurate compared to my meter.

If I were you I'd hold off on using the Libre. It's a great tool but is too primitive and unreliable. As you can see it has caused some irregularity in your regime and as diabetics this is something that can become pretty dangerous.

Some people are using Libre and cross checking with a meter. I find that this is just double the normal burden of BGL testing.

Libre will come a long way in a short space of time, but judging by the consensus across various forums; it appears to be pretty irregular and unreliable.

I still haven't used my 2nd sensor due to my experiences with the first.

Cheers,
Grant

 

[Brunneria]

It is my understanding that the Libre is not approved for calculating the treatment of hypos, and for pre-driving bg testing. I also read somewhere that it should be cross checked with prick testing for insulin dose calculations.

It certainly isn't intended/approved to replace prick testing for managing insulin dependent diabetes.

The Libre's own website says the following:
Abbott FreeStyle Libre UK website

“A finger prick test using a blood glucose meter is required

• during times of rapidly changing glucose levels when interstitial fluid glucose levels may not accurately reflect blood glucose levels or
• if hypoglycaemia or impending hypoglycaemia is reported by the System or
• when symptoms do not match the System readings.”
  (INPUT’s highlighting)

Please note: you will still need to do fingerstick blood tests prior to and during driving to meet DVLA requirements.

 

[Griffter15]

I think you're operating under the assumption your blood glucose test is 100% accurate. Try testing 3 times in a row and you'll likely see a spread of results.

In my experience, the libre sensors are always a bit out but it's usually consistent across the life of the sensor. A couple of tests a day should be enough to get your bearings with it. But you need to understand that:
a) it's measuring IF which is around 15 mins behind blood glucose changes
b) it seems to use algorithms to try and catch up on this delay which means it sometimes gets a bit excited but self corrects ones it realises

 

[tim2000s]

@tigger, Abbott state that their meters have a MARD of 15%. On the values you've given, they are just outside, so after the tests with the Abbott strips, it is likely that your sensor will be replaced. But they do insist on using the Optium strips, and these can be obtained via Prescription.

It's probably worth having a read of this, which explains some of the sensor patterns that people see: http://crick-tech-munch.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/freestylelibre-patterns-of-sensor.html

 

[tigger]

Thank @tim2000s . Very useful. Howevet today i had it telling me i'm 7.2 and flat when my meter said i was 5 and i could feel myself plunging. I ate to deal with it and it doesn't show at all on the graph.

 

[tim2000s]

Thank @tim2000s . Very useful. Howevet today i had it telling me i'm 7.2 and flat when my meter said i was 5 and i could feel myself plunging. I ate to deal with it and it doesn't show at all on the graph.

What did the Libre show 10 mins later? It does sound as though you've got one of the dodgy sensors, and unfortunately the only answer is to ensure you have 3 to 5 readings showing the issue with Optium test strips, and make sure you've calculated that the readings are more than 15% away from each other. I don't expect you to have any issues with them offering to replace it.

As a note to others, if you have issues with a sensor, you need to have a number of readings showing the difference is more than 15% and they will always ask if those were done using the Abbott test strips. It's up to you as to how you approach that question, but the strips required for testing on the Libre are Freestyle Optium and are available on prescription.

 

[himtoo]

What did the Libre show 10 mins later? It does sound as though you've got one of the dodgy sensors, and unfortunately the only answer is to ensure you have 3 to 5 readings showing the issue with Optium test strips, and make sure you've calculated that the readings are more than 15% away from each other. I don't expect you to have any issues with them offering to replace it.

As a note to others, if you have issues with a sensor, you need to have a number of readings showing the difference is more than 15% and they will always ask if those were done using the Abbott test strips. It's up to you as to how you approach that question, but the strips required for testing on the Libre are Freestyle Optium and are available on prescription.

Hi @tim2000s
I recently finished using my first sensor and found it mostly pretty accurate.
my omnipod uses the abbott freestyle strips..
Have you heard any stories on their response to those strips at all ??

 

[tim2000s]

Hi @tim2000s
I recently finished using my first sensor and found it mostly pretty accurate.
my omnipod uses the abbott freestyle strips..
Have you heard any stories on their response to those strips at all ??

You have to be careful @himtoo. The Optium strips are the required ones. The Freestyle ones don't work in the meter.

 

[himtoo]

thanks tim -- i realise that -- I was using the freestyle strips in my omnipod meter but was wondering if you had heard any stories from peeps with issues concerning abbott manufactured strips ( although not optium strips) if that makes sense.
I have read that they don't recognise the accuracy of other brands of meter but as my freestyle are actually abbott branded if that made them more amenable.

 

[tim2000s]

thanks tim -- i realise that -- I was using the freestyle strips in my omnipod meter but was wondering if you had heard any stories from peeps with issues concerning abbott manufactured strips ( although not optium strips) if that makes sense.
I have read that they don't recognise the accuracy of other brands of meter but as my freestyle are actually abbott branded if that made them more amenable.

I don't know of anyone how has tried that to be fair!

 

[AndBreathe]

You have to be careful @himtoo. The Optium strips are the required ones. The Freestyle ones don't work in the meter.

Tim - A couple of months ago I had quite a lengthy dialogue with Abbott regarding testing against the Libre, which test trips, customer and Abbott expectations in terms of Customer Services, with the UK head honcho, then onto one of their specialists.

My recollection (which I will check out later, by reference to the email exchanges) was that they would accept readings on any Abbott device, but not those of other manufacturers, but I will check that when I can today.

I will post again when I have looked through the mails.

 

[AndBreathe]

Oh boy - This took a little finding, as it wasn't within the particular chain of correspondence I expected !

However, this is a direct quote from the email received from Abbott:

"....We have worked on your case and we would like to kindly inform you about the fact, that in situations where there's a discrepancy between the readings of the sensor and test strip, we always require a comparison of the sensor and an Abbott meter readings - as we can only be responsible of readings of the meters produced by our company. ...."

Each person would be wise to make their own interpretation of that, as I will not be held responsible for any refusal to replace sensors, or anything else.

 

[tigger]

So i called abbot and they sent me strips as they'll only accept their meter readings and i have a contour. The discrepency must be 30% or more for them to replace! So anything up to 30%is ok and they're not bothered by missed trends on graphs eg i have a perfect night reading when i had a hypo and treated it. Really disappointed.

 

[tim2000s]

So i called abbot and they sent me strips as they'll only accept their meter readings and i have a contour. The discrepency must be 30% or more for them to replace! So anything up to 30%is ok and they're not bothered by missed trends on graphs eg i have a perfect night reading when i had a hypo and treated it. Really disappointed.

As I posted on your other comment about 30%, I don't know who you spoke to but in the last 18 months of getting inaccurate sensors replaced, it was always 15%.

 

[tigger]

If they have changed it it's not in the t&cs. Also as they represent the libre as being able to replace a meter except in some specific circs 15% would be reasonable as that's usual variance for meters. 30 isn't.

 

[AndBreathe]

If they have changed it it's not in the t&cs. Also as they represent the libre as being able to replace a meter except in some specific circs 15% would be reasonable as that's usual variance for meters. 30 isn't.

Could there be some confusion, perhaps with an inexperienced advisor around the +/-15%, being added together?

Don't despair. Do the comparisons and report back. You may find a different approach from someone else.

I know I felt miffed when I was told the reference checking had to be done on an Abbott device, but once I had done it, they were absolutely fine.

I had reason to be in contact with Abbott management about their support services some months ago, and offered the feedback that I felt it somewhat unfair that as well as paying for the sensors, somewhere along the line, either the NHS, or individuals have to fund their diagnostic processes via the provision of test strips.

 

[tigger]

Who knows. He was very definite about the 30 % and at that point i hadn't looked closely enough into the t&cs to work out the legal position to my satisfaction.