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Type 1 Liver

SueJB said:
If you could rely on Monsieur Foie to do the biz consistently, we wouldn't need insulin.
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This is where I am confused @Listlad reference to the pancreas? Quoted above.
"We wouldn't need insulin." The pancreas's fuction or "non function" with T1.

Then mention of fatted foul (goose or duck) liver for consumption..? In pate?)

I sincerely hope @SueJB can clarify??

All I know is the liver dumps & makes demands on a fixed dose of basal (With MDI.) in the absence of pancreatic insulin production (or for the insulin resistant?) thus raising BG.. A correction with exogenous fast acting insulin should remedy this for the ID in the absence of working beta cells.. But not always easy to get right..

From what I gather though, liver dump is a natural process (or should be?) for all. (There are also some stores in the muscle tissue too?)
 
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caius2x8 said:
Diurnal cycling regulates lotto hormonal processes. Cortisone, a hormone which desensitises us to insulin, dips at ~3am and 3pm restoring sensitivity to insulin at those times ( i've with no cortisone i am 3x as sensitive to insulin or at least have reduced my insulin to 1/3 the normal level to avoid hypos) and so potentially lower blood sugars, insulin levels depending. In addition even without hypos, low levels of cortisone give a feeling of tiredness. An absence of cortisone makes exhausted in an absolute sense in addition to other effects. At 3pm people in general feel a post lunch tiredness and may put it down to digestion but i'd guess its in part down to lower cortisone levels. At 3am there's no eating. Hence the risk of night hypos. An advantage of cortisone cycling is that too high a level in the blood stream over night can disturb sleep. Thus its falling and rising seems helpful for the standard day shift.
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Now oddly, 2/3am is where I am likely to dip on a fixed dosage of lantus.. (Not sure if you pump or not?)

My work day? I eat around 9.30 starting work @6.30. I don't bother eating on a later break but when I finish by 3pm? I can get another low in the hour period after clocking off.? (Any bolus is long out the system.)

I always blamed the lantus working profile? But maybe not.
 
DCUKMod said:
@SueJB - I can have liver dumps at any time of the day or night, if my bloods go a bit too low. I don't fuss about it, but I know when it's happening.

There was a thread eons ago about liver dump signs, and mine is a slightly peculiar feeling in my throat. It's not unpleasant, but it's definitely a thing.

To be clear, I'm not T1, so wouldn't like to do any more than describe my own experience, and maybe suggest you search for the thread I mention. I'd be fibbing if I said I could recall who started it.
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The need for basal insulin all day in T1's (be it by long acting insulin through injection or a steady drip through a pump) suggests that the liver provides a steady glucose input all day.
What makes you say what you feel is liver dump and not the effect of low glucose?
 
Antje77 said:
The need for basal insulin all day in T1's (be it by long acting insulin through injection or a steady drip through a pump) suggests that the liver provides a steady glucose input all day.
What makes you say what you feel is liver dump and not the effect of low glucose?
Click to expand...

I have been known to dip very low and be quite fine, but when my liver enters the action, I have a funny feeling in my throat. My blood glucose isn't necessarily awfully low at that point.

At this point, I don't worry about it too much.
 
Jaylee said:
(There are also some stores in the muscle tissue too?)
Click to expand...

I may be mistaken but I believe that only liver glycogen can be re-converted into glucose and sent back out into the bloodstream. Muscle glycogen can only be utilised in the muscles and cannot therefore be used to contribute toward increasing blood glucose. Only the liver can supply this demand.
 
Jaylee said:
This is where I am confused @Listlad reference to the pancreas? Quoted above.
"We wouldn't need insulin." The pancreas's fuction or "non function" with T1.

Then mention of fatted foul (goose or duck) liver for consumption..? In pate?)

I sincerely hope @SueJB can clarify??

All I know is the liver dumps & makes demands on a fixed dose of basal (With MDI.) in the absence of pancreatic insulin production (or for the insulin resistant?) thus raising BG.. A correction with exogenous fast acting insulin should remedy this for the ID in the absence of working beta cells.. But not always easy to get right..

From what I gather though, liver dump is a natural process (or should be?) for all. (There are also some stores in the muscle tissue too?)
Click to expand...
I am a very polite person and often refer to BG as Madam so just thought I'd take the analogy a little further and refer to the liver as Monsieur Foie. Sorry it confused you all but my original question still stands. If it can dump in the morning, why not throughout the day?
 
The liver does release glucose during the day if there is a demand for it do so. It can do this 24/7/365. It’s just more likely to release more in the morning when cortisol levels are high and stimulating the pancreas to secrete more glucagon.
 
Antje77 said:
The need for basal insulin all day in T1's (be it by long acting insulin through injection or a steady drip through a pump) suggests that the liver provides a steady glucose input all day.
What makes you say what you feel is liver dump and not the effect of low glucose?
Click to expand...

The liver dump is kind of a flight or "fight response" in the absence of a certain level of BG? Be it waking for work first thing or confronting a "geezer" in the pub over an accidental "spilled pint." (Stress.) unless where alcohol is consumed which stunts liver dump? Metformin acts the same way but also increasing insulin sensitivity..

Jim Lahey said:
I may be mistaken but I believe that only liver glycogen can be re-converted into glucose and sent back out into the bloodstream. Muscle glycogen can only be utilised in the muscles and cannot therefore be used to contribute toward increasing blood glucose. Only the liver can supply this demand.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I totally agree with you on your clarity regarding muscle tissue glycogen..
Lol, hence the "geezer down the pub." & possibly reported outstanding cases of "super human" strength under duress? (Rescuing someone trapped under a car.)
 
Jaylee said:
The liver dump is kind of a flight or "fight response" in the absence of a certain level of BG?
Click to expand...
As far as I know the liver dumps steadily all day (hence the need for basal) and may dump more in certain situations like waking up or an adrenalin surge.
However, SueJB asked
SueJB said:
If it can dump in the morning, why not throughout the day?
Click to expand...
and the anwer is that it does dump throughout the day.
 
Antje77 said:
As far as I know the liver dumps steadily all day (hence the need for basal) and may dump more in certain situations like waking up or an adrenalin surge.
However, SueJB asked

and the anwer is that it does dump throughout the day.
Click to expand...

@Antje77 , during a hypo the body is under a simalar duress? The liver does what it can & "buffers" the low BG. Though, with exogenous insulin....?? Who knows where it may go..? I've checked my BP (blood pressure.) whilst hypo. I'm in "survival mode" whilst fighting the urge to consume fast acting carbs... ;)
 
SueJB said:
No idea to be honest
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Hi Sue, google it. Honestly there is a stack of information out there which will answer your (interesting) question. You keep saying you don't know and have no idea but the information is there at your fingertips, we might know the basics of how it works but could never give you a scientific explanation wrapped up in one paragraph. It is always a good idea to educate yourself on WHY you are having to take two insulins and what each of them do, etc. I found I didn't have a clue at first as to why it was important to take insulin at a certain time and what each of them did and so on. Then I thought well it's MY condition so I had better get researching. x
 
KK123 said:
Hi Sue, google it. Honestly there is a stack of information out there which will answer your (interesting) question. You keep saying you don't know and have no idea but the information is there at your fingertips, we might know the basics of how it works but could never give you a scientific explanation wrapped up in one paragraph. It is always a good idea to educate yourself on WHY you are having to take two insulins and what each of them do, etc. I found I didn't have a clue at first as to why it was important to take insulin at a certain time and what each of them did and so on. Then I thought well it's MY condition so I had better get researching. x
Click to expand...
For an accessible and informative reference on this subject, I highly recommend "Think Like a Pancreas".

Shiba.
 
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