Low carb and high calorie

[ExD]

I thought the 'only eat red meat twice a week' had been dissed? It went with the idea that every 'balanced' meal was based on carbs as the main source of energy. You are at a disadvantage in that your partner is vegi - can you eat most of your meat out of her sight?

 

[alaska]

Thinking about it I suppose that what is 'healthy' is somewhat dependant on the person. Although cheese and red meat are not recommended for the general population they are probably considered les of an issue for diabetics if they help with blood sugars. Is this how most people see it?

Hi vanarchre, I guess I'm in a similar position: Type 1, low carbing, with a vegetarian partner and sometimes feel I'm struggling to get enough calories.

My approach has been to let my weight do what it wants to do. I eat when I get hungry but largely try to keep low-carb as much as possible.

I've been 98% vegetarian for the last year as it makes meal planning easier for us.

Lots of avocado, lots of cheese, good amount of nuts. Feta and avocado and nuts are good calorie combination for salads. I do eat carbs and grains but limit myself to 30g per meal. Varieties of tofu, fish and eggs are my dinner protein sources. Typical grains are rice, quinoa and buckwheat. Rice portion needs to be smaller than the quinoa and buckwheat portions.

I try to keep sugar levels under 5.5 before a meal but it's not always possible.

I'll have carby snacks sometimes -eg a small-medium apple- but I'll save this for when my sugar levels are low enough. This usually involves stabilising sugar levels to 4 to 5.5 (ideally), injecting 1 to 1.5 units, waiting 45 mins, then having the apple.

Edit: My other low snacks are 2 Lindt squares of 90% dark (only 20% carbs and nice high calorie) and a small amount of good quality peanut butter. I have to stick to a teaspoon of peanut butter otherwise my sugar levels go crazy. A teaspoon of peanut butter on a single Lindt square of 90% dark choc is decent for calories and doesn't throw off sugar levels.

Being this strict has only been possible with the FreeStyle Libre however. If you're on tests strips, I can see why avoiding carbs would be a good plan.

I get hit by protein (which is found in nuts and cheese) as bad as I get hit by smallish portions of carbs, which is why I'm happy to have up to 30g of carbs at meal times.

Last HbA1c was 5.8% (about 59 mmol/mol).

 

[StewartH]

Hi Vanarchre,
I am T1D and have been Low carb now for 11 months. It has been an amazing journey which has transformed my blood sugar control and for the first time in 35 years, I have managed to put on weight and muscle.
It took me a while to learn how to eat enough calories though. The key is to take in enough fat. Sounds shocking I know but if you cut down on the carbs you have to get the energy from somewhere or you will fade away.

I eat a cooked breakfast of 2 eggs, ham and spinach or other green veg served with butter every day. I have a mixed salad with lots of olive oil, cheeses, avocado etc for lunch and perhaps a piece of roast meat with green vegetables served with butter for dinner. Sometimes snacks in between of nuts, cheese raw vegetables and some home made mayonnaise etc.

There is a lot of good information now arguing that fat is not bad for you, and never has been. See here: http://www.artandscienceoflowcarb.com/
and here:

I have re-learned to enjoy fat and am feeling great on it. Coffee with real cream....delicious

 

[Indy51]

There is a lot of good information now arguing that fat is not bad for you, and never has been. See here: http://www.artandscienceoflowcarb.com/

Thanks so much for that link - I didn't know Volek & Phinney had a website - what a great find

 

[vanarchre]

I thought the 'only eat red meat twice a week' had been dissed? It went with the idea that every 'balanced' meal was based on carbs as the main source of energy. You are at a disadvantage in that your partner is vegi - can you eat most of your meat out of her sight?

Can't keep track on what they think about red meat.

My partner certainly doesn't stop me eating meat! It's just nice to eat together but we struggle to find meals. It's very often salad.

 

[vanarchre]

Hi @vanarchre Nut butters are a good way of adding calories to a low carb diet. Peanut, cashew, almond and hazelnut butters are all veggie. You could make satay sauce for stir fry, stir nut butter into curries or just eat with a spoon or stalk of celery.

I agree. Nut butters are pretty great!

 

[vanarchre]

Hi vanarchre, I guess I'm in a similar position: Type 1, low carbing, with a vegetarian partner and sometimes feel I'm struggling to get enough calories.

My approach has been to let my weight do what it wants to do. I eat when I get hungry but largely try to keep low-carb as much as possible.

I've been 98% vegetarian for the last year as it makes meal planning easier for us.

Lots of avocado, lots of cheese, good amount of nuts. Feta and avocado and nuts are good calorie combination for salads. I do eat carbs and grains but limit myself to 30g per meal. Varieties of tofu, fish and eggs are my dinner protein sources. Typical grains are rice, quinoa and buckwheat. Rice portion needs to be smaller than the quinoa and buckwheat portions.

I try to keep sugar levels under 5.5 before a meal but it's not always possible.

I'll have carby snacks sometimes -eg a small-medium apple- but I'll save this for when my sugar levels are low enough. This usually involves stabilising sugar levels to 4 to 5.5 (ideally), injecting 1 to 1.5 units, waiting 45 mins, then having the apple.

Edit: My other low snacks are 2 Lindt squares of 90% dark (only 20% carbs and nice high calorie) and a small amount of good quality peanut butter. I have to stick to a teaspoon of peanut butter otherwise my sugar levels go crazy. A teaspoon of peanut butter on a single Lindt square of 90% dark choc is decent for calories and doesn't throw off sugar levels.

Being this strict has only been possible with the FreeStyle Libre however. If you're on tests strips, I can see why avoiding carbs would be a good plan.

I get hit by protein (which is found in nuts and cheese) as bad as I get hit by smallish portions of carbs, which is why I'm happy to have up to 30g of carbs at meal times.

Last HbA1c was 5.8% (about 59 mmol/mol).

Thanks for this feedback. Low carbing has been helpful but I still don't fully understand how people get their HBA1C below 6 though. Even with low carb my sugars just do their own thing at times. Recently they've started rocketing up late evening. Except that some evenings they simply don't, despite me eating the same meal last thing at night, with fewer than 20g of carbs. I had a free trial of the Freestyle Libre. I found that the results it gave were inaccurate enough that it was hard to benefit from it (generally it overemphasized higher readings).

 

[vanarchre]

Hi Vanarchre,
I am T1D and have been Low carb now for 11 months. It has been an amazing journey which has transformed my blood sugar control and for the first time in 35 years, I have managed to put on weight and muscle.
It took me a while to learn how to eat enough calories though. The key is to take in enough fat. Sounds shocking I know but if you cut down on the carbs you have to get the energy from somewhere or you will fade away.

I eat a cooked breakfast of 2 eggs, ham and spinach or other green veg served with butter every day. I have a mixed salad with lots of olive oil, cheeses, avocado etc for lunch and perhaps a piece of roast meat with green vegetables served with butter for dinner. Sometimes snacks in between of nuts, cheese raw vegetables and some home made mayonnaise etc.

There is a lot of good information now arguing that fat is not bad for you, and never has been. See here: http://www.artandscienceoflowcarb.com/
and here:

I have re-learned to enjoy fat and am feeling great on it. Coffee with real cream....delicious

Sounds like you eat some similar things to me. It does seem as though fat itself is not the problem. Still not sure there's a consensus on saturated fat though.

 

[ExD]

Like StewartH I have learned to like fat and not to fear red meat, but then I don't have any heart issues although I do have a distressing tendency to gain weight. I shall be 78 next month and feel fitter on LCHF than I have done in years - I just wish my joints weren't wearing out ......lol

 

[alaska]

I had a free trial of the Freestyle Libre. I found that the results it gave were inaccurate enough that it was hard to benefit from it (generally it overemphasized higher readings).

Blood glucose meters have inaccuracy as well so how do you know it was the Libre overemphasising and not your meter under emphasising?

You could be right, but I've found the Libre to be reliable enough not to bother with blood tests most of the time these days.

Recently they've started rocketing up late evening.

Watch out for protein as that can lead to seemingly random highs. Once you get to know protein though, then the randomness becomes less apparent.

Those of us that have type 1 and low carb but have had type 1 for many years tend to be susceptible to protein.

If I have a meal with a decent amount of protein (note cheese is a high protein food too), then my blood sugar will start rising 3-5 hours after eating.

Libre makes keeping an eye on this much easier.

If I snack on say nuts, cheese and a teaspoon of peanut butter, I have to inject a little bit (say 1 to 1.5 units) at first and then watch out for later maybe 3-6 hours later, because the fat/protein whatever will get turned into blood sugar for me.

We're all different so effects may vary. I'm underweight which might (I don't know) have an effect on being extra susceptible to protein and fat.

I guess in summary. What I've learnt is that there will always be a reason for blood sugars rocketing up, you've just got to figure out what it is.

 

[StewartH]

I agree with Alaska, blood sugar effect of protein surprises me occasionally and I am trying to work out a predicable dosing system. Before switching to LCHF I would eat say 80g carbs at dinner taking 12 units, a ratio of 1.5 Units per 10g carbs.

I have found that even though I am now typically eating less than 10g carbs at each meal, I still need 2 or 3 units novo-rapid to cope with that, so the ratio has nearly doubled to 2.5 Units per 10g carbs. I guess this is down to protein but have been unable to find any information on how to calculate dose requirement.

Guesswork is going well though. With small insulin dose and small amounts of carbs any error in my estimations means the blood sugar excursions are also small.

Interestingly, I have halved my daily bolus insulin in the process but basal dose is about the same as before.

 

[vanarchre]

Blood glucose meters have inaccuracy as well so how do you know it was the Libre overemphasising and not your meter under emphasising?

You could be right, but I've found the Libre to be reliable enough not to bother with blood tests most of the time these days.



Watch out for protein as that can lead to seemingly random highs. Once you get to know protein though, then the randomness becomes less apparent.

Those of us that have type 1 and low carb but have had type 1 for many years tend to be susceptible to protein.

If I have a meal with a decent amount of protein (note cheese is a high protein food too), then my blood sugar will start rising 3-5 hours after eating.

Libre makes keeping an eye on this much easier.

If I snack on say nuts, cheese and a teaspoon of peanut butter, I have to inject a little bit (say 1 to 1.5 units) at first and then watch out for later maybe 3-6 hours later, because the fat/protein whatever will get turned into blood sugar for me.

We're all different so effects may vary. I'm underweight which might (I don't know) have an effect on being extra susceptible to protein and fat.

I guess in summary. What I've learnt is that there will always be a reason for blood sugars rocketing up, you've just got to figure out what it is.

I cannot be sure that it was the Libre that was over-emphasising. However, for a period I started taking insulin in a response to the Libre's readings and this caused some sudden lows so I am inclined to believe that the Libre was giving higher readings. I am aware that the the Libre is measuring something different so that it is perhaps not tight to call it innacurate but I certainly felt that it made it less useful. Perhaps I would get used to it.


Yes, I am sure that fats and proteins are having an effect. It is just strange because on some nights they seem to have much more of an effect than others with the same meal. It's one thing to think 'I'm going to have a lte spike because of the fats and protein' and take insulin for this but when it doesn't occur half the time it's harder.

 

[vanarchre]

I agree with Alaska, blood sugar effect of protein surprises me occasionally and I am trying to work out a predicable dosing system. Before switching to LCHF I would eat say 80g carbs at dinner taking 12 units, a ratio of 1.5 Units per 10g carbs.

I have found that even though I am now typically eating less than 10g carbs at each meal, I still need 2 or 3 units novo-rapid to cope with that, so the ratio has nearly doubled to 2.5 Units per 10g carbs. I guess this is down to protein but have been unable to find any information on how to calculate dose requirement.

Guesswork is going well though. With small insulin dose and small amounts of carbs any error in my estimations means the blood sugar excursions are also small.

Interestingly, I have halved my daily bolus insulin in the process but basal dose is about the same as before.

What upsets me is when medical professionals refuse to accept that this happens. I have been told that it is not possible for eggs to have a notable effect on my blood sugars. I have also been told that it is possible.

Of course this means that I have received no guidance as to how to factor in protein and like you I am finding it tricky to come to any sort of ratio. Similarly, however, I find that with low insulin doses the effects are often not too wild.

In good news my GP has switched me to a new hospital for my care. It was definitely time for a fresh start.