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Managing bGs

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
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All that makes sense to me is that insulin should be 'supplied' (released) according to demand. If you are eating a lot of carbs/sugar you will produced more insulin and if you are eating less you will produce less insulin because you don't need so much. Still at a loss with what to do. If Lo Carbing keeps your readings down in general then yay. Eating a lot of sugar has shown in many of us to kickstart the pancreas into action (give it a little wake up and it and blood sugar comes down) but these things are so changeable

Sometimes I will go on the occasional sugar binge (well..) and see low numbers afterwards but in the long term I think it's better to not keep spiking myself.

I think the point of Lo carbing is to keep oneself 'on an even keel' instead of spiking and your pancreas having to keep up with whatever measures of glucose are in your bloodstream at the time. Maybe you'll run a bit higher fastings but hey, you are steady. At least I think so. My fastings have crept up a bit but lower than some reported by the low carbers, but readings are everywhere during the day/after eating

I might have to do a trial of some sort of my own... I don't know enough about either normal diet or low carbohydrate :/


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Yeah I suppose super low Carbing makers your body think you are starving and it's trying to stop you hypoing all the time.

Like how fasting works up to a point but in the end it can screw up your metabolism and make it harder to lose weight. (not saying it isn't possible to stare to death but your body does do a lot to halt it. I should know)

Guess perhaps alternating might be a good idea. 1 month normal eating, 1 month Lo carb?

Meh. No idea. Started my camping trip feeling like I was having a major hypo at 4.2 (I haven't seem 4s for months!) after many hours of trekking and ended it at 11 when I last tested. Exercise good or generally unhelpful for me? *Shrug*

I start pole dancing in a few weeks. Wonder what that will do to readings. I honestly haven't a clue anymore. Too many factors to consider worrying what an when to eat or exercise...


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Right now—meaning today, at this minute—I'm not convinced that low carbing is working for me. I believe it is upping my overall BG. As of today I am increasing my daily carbs and giving my system some time to adapt. Last night's Finn Crisp experiment produced a prolonged raised BG, 5.6 @ +1, 6.1 @ +2 and still 6.1 @ +3. It was too late for another test but I was back down to a normal 5.1 abefore breakfast i.e. fasting, which was also interesting. After breakfast I was +5.8 @ +2, so not all that bothered but until last week I was almost always within +0.2 to +0.3 at 2 hours. Tested before lunch, approximately +3.5 hours after breakfast and I was 6.2. Now, this has NEVER happened. I'm almost always at fasting level by lunch time. I've never gone up after +2 hours following breakfast.

I found one explanation online, along the lines of low carbing creating insulin resistance as a result of ketosis, with the result that the second phase insulin becomes less effective. People find that not only are their FBG levels up, their post prandial readings rise after 2 hours and stay high. Their bodies produce less insulin when the glycogen stored in the liver is used up and in the absence of glucose they start breaking down fats for energy. When glucose from food enters the bloodstream, it remains in the bloodstream not being used because the body has adapted to using fat as its primary fuel source.

OK, I'm no biochemist, I'm only reporting back on the information that I've read and I make no claim as to the scientific veracity of these sources. I've summarised, more or less, the information that I've found online. So, I'm not going to argue over the merits or otherwise of which study supports which theory re low carbing. I know it helps some, but right now, I'm not convinced it's helping me.

I'm interested in how this information relates to my own experience i.e. when I cut down carbs my readings went up, when I responded by cutting carbs even more, my readings went up again. These were almost overnight jumps that occurred approximately one week later. Nothing else had changed in terms of activity levels, intercurrent illness, and I'm not feeling stressed about anything much, so I can kick that tired old catch-all excuse to the kerb.

Right so…I'm cautiously upping my daily carbs. Sensibly, an apple after lunch and that sort of thing. Yes, my levels might go higher as a consequence BUT they were going up eating fewer carbs anyway. I think (I hope) I have some headroom. What I'm interested in is restoring the second phase insulin response, assuming it has lessened. I may well be wrong, but I'll find out.


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janeecee said:
Right now—meaning today, at this minute—I'm not convinced that low carbing is working for me. I believe it is upping my overall BG. As of today I am increasing my daily carbs and giving my system some time to adapt. Last night's Finn Crisp experiment produced a prolonged raised BG, 5.6 @ +1, 6.1 @ +2 and still 6.1 @ +3. It was too late for another test but I was back down to a normal 5.1 abefore breakfast i.e. fasting, which was also interesting. After breakfast I was +5.8 @ +2, so not all that bothered but until last week I was almost always within +0.2 to +0.3 at 2 hours. Tested before lunch, approximately +3.5 hours after breakfast and I was 6.2. Now, this has NEVER happened. I'm almost always at fasting level by lunch time. I've never gone up after +2 hours following breakfast.

I found one explanation online, along the lines of low carbing creating insulin resistance as a result of ketosis, with the result that the second phase insulin becomes less effective. People find that not only are their FBG levels up, their post prandial readings rise after 2 hours and stay high. Their bodies produce less insulin when the glycogen stored in the liver is used up and in the absence of glucose they start breaking down fats for energy. When glucose from food enters the bloodstream, it remains in the bloodstream not being used because the body has adapted to using fat as its primary fuel source.

OK, I'm no biochemist, I'm only reporting back on the information that I've read and I make no claim as to the scientific veracity of these sources. I've summarised, more or less, the information that I've found online. So, I'm not going to argue over the merits or otherwise of which study supports which theory re low carbing. I know it helps some, but right now, I'm not convinced it's helping me.

I'm interested in how this information relates to my own experience i.e. when I cut down carbs my readings went up, when I responded by cutting carbs even more, my readings went up again. These were almost overnight jumps that occurred approximately one week later. Nothing else had changed in terms of activity levels, intercurrent illness, and I'm not feeling stressed about anything much, so I can kick that tired old catch-all excuse to the kerb.

Right so…I'm cautiously upping my daily carbs. Sensibly, an apple after lunch and that sort of thing. Yes, my levels might go higher as a consequence BUT they were going up eating fewer carbs anyway. I think (I hope) I have some headroom. What I'm interested in is restoring the second phase insulin response, assuming it has lessened. I may well be wrong, but I'll find out.


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Click to expand...

Good on you for trying this. I'm sure many people will take a great interest in what you learn. I have no idea of how many extra carbs you would need to up by to demonstrate that it makes a positive difference... maybe 25-50g?
 
Today has been interesting.

I started with a fasting BG of 5.2, had an almost identical breakfast to yesterday's and was 5.4 at +2 hours, compared with yesterday's 5.9. Before lunch I was still 5.4 which was better than yesterday's surprising 6.2. So far, so good. I seemed to be returning to my previous pattern.

Lunch wasn't so good. A somewhat worrying 7.6 at +2 hours although today's lunch was lower in protein and fat compared with yesterday's lunch, which gave me 6.8 at +2 hours. I would hazard a guess that my usual lunch would have given me a lower reading. How much lower, I don't know, maybe closer to yesterday's but even that reading was about +1.0 higher than I was getting until last week or so. I'll find out tomorrow.

I don't typically take 3 hour readings but in this instance I am concerned about whether my second phase is responding as it should as this can be diminished by low carbing and ketosis according to the information I have read. (Once again, not claiming any expertise). My 3 hour reading today was 5.8 compared with yesterday's 6.0, so both quite similar. I won't test again until before dinner.

I think it's too soon to say anything about increasing carbs, just that I'm aiming for approximately 100g total carbs per day. Yesterday I consumed 118g. Today's estimate looks like 98g. I don't want to spike up too much after dinner, because I feel my system needs time to adjust. Of course, all this assumes that my guess about low carbing leading to insulin resistance is correct in my case—I always feel the need to stress I could be wrong, and I may well be.

BTW, I tested for ketones this morning. I showed a trace but this is probably normal as I hadn't eaten for 15 hours. I had zero ketones this afternoon, so no ketosis.

Also, I wasn't sticking to a set number of carbs. I was adjusting according to the meter readings but found that I was going down to 50-60g total carbs (maybe 30g total net carbs on some days). Some days I was 75-90g total carbs but when I jumped I was closer to about 50-60g total carbs in my response. At the moment I'm aiming for 100g per day, bearing on mind that I'm housebound and inactive due to my disability, and don't burn the calories nor do I have the appetite to eat loads.




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janeecee said:
Today has been interesting.

I started with a fasting BG of 5.2, had an almost identical breakfast to yesterday's and was 5.4 at +2 hours, compared with yesterday's 5.9. Before lunch I was still 5.4 which was better than yesterday's surprising 6.2. So far, so good. I seemed to be returning to my previous pattern.

Lunch wasn't so good. A somewhat worrying 7.6 at +2 hours although today's lunch was lower in protein and fat compared with yesterday's lunch, which gave me 6.8 at +2 hours. I would hazard a guess that my usual lunch would have given me a lower reading. How much lower, I don't know, maybe closer to yesterday's but even that reading was about +1.0 higher than I was getting until last week or so. I'll find out tomorrow.

I don't typically take 3 hour readings but in this instance I am concerned about whether my second phase is responding as it should as this can be diminished by low carbing and ketosis according to the information I have read. (Once again, not claiming any expertise). My 3 hour reading today was 5.8 compared with yesterday's 6.0, so both quite similar. I won't test again until before dinner.

I think it's too soon to say anything about increasing carbs, just that I'm aiming for approximately 100g total carbs per day. Yesterday I consumed 118g. Today's estimate looks like 98g. I don't want to spike up too much after dinner, because I feel my system needs time to adjust. Of course, all this assumes that my guess about low carbing leading to insulin resistance is correct in my case—I always feel the need to stress I could be wrong, and I may well be.

BTW, I tested for ketones this morning. I showed a trace but this is probably normal as I hadn't eaten for 15 hours. I had zero ketones this afternoon, so no ketosis.




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Silly question probably, but how do you test for ketones? Is there a kit or test strip or something?
 
gezzathorpe said:
Silly question probably, but how do you test for ketones? Is there a kit or test strip or something?
Click to expand...


Some of us have meters that test blood for ketone levels as well as for glucose levels.
 
Gezzathorpe, I'm using Ketostix to test my urine. You can get them from the chemist. My meter can also read ketones but the strips are rather expensive.

Update:
My pre-dinner reading was down to 4.8 which is actually around what I was getting for the previous week or two before my BGs jumped up. I didn't want to carb up any more for today. I wanted to see what my reading would be after a dinner that I have had before and knew what to expect (or at least I THOUGHT I knew :lol: ). My reading was 6.3 at +2 hours. Previously I've had 6.5 or thereabouts with this dinner so I was pleasantly surprised to be just a tad lower than what I was getting before—but really, it's more or less the same given the old caveats about meters.

So, what do I reckon so far? I still think it's too soon to tell. This is only day 2 of 'carbing up' and this blood glucose malarky is not an exact science. I must admit, I was very pleased to see that my preprandial was back down this evening and also that my post prandial was in line. At this stage I have no idea whether this evening's readings are just a flash in the pan. I had high hopes after observing that my breakfast readings were approaching my previous pattern but my post lunch figure was a downer. It did come down, though, and to a greater extent than yesterday—although different meals have different after effects so I need to bear that in mind. Reality check and all that.

All in all, it's been an interesting day. Tomorrow may tell another story.
 
Ambersilva said:
gezzathorpe said:
Silly question probably, but how do you test for ketones? Is there a kit or test strip or something?
Click to expand...


Some of us have meters that test blood for ketone levels as well as for glucose levels.
Click to expand...

I use urine keytone test dip strips .
Test for keytones via dip stick into urine .
I get these on prescription from my own GP/DSN .

Anna.
 
Odd stuff. I had a pretty carbtastic night then woke up at 4.8, which is totally unheard of for me! Spent 4 hours walking through the woods, came back at 6.7

Meh

I have the GP use dipsticks that test for everything because my bladder likes to be infected a lot lol

Better than the last few days' 11s


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This is interesting—taking the wider view—though perhaps not relevant to people with established diabetes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8777329

Looking at the bigger picture, with this study and others, it would appear that low carb intake can potentially (I stress 'potentially') induce or exacerbate difficulties in glucose metabolism in some people.

For academic interest only. I'm not taking a stance here.


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Now I'm wondering if it was the fact I starved myself or loading myself with sugar between starving myself that fawked with my metabolism @_@

Going to have to reread in the morning

Thanks janeecee. You are my DiaBuddy lol


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janeecee said:
Gezzathorpe, I'm using Ketostix to test my urine. You can get them from the chemist. My meter can also read ketones but the strips are rather expensive.

Update:
My pre-dinner reading was down to 4.8 which is actually around what I was getting for the previous week or two before my BGs jumped up. I didn't want to carb up any more for today. I wanted to see what my reading would be after a dinner that I have had before and knew what to expect (or at least I THOUGHT I knew :lol: ). My reading was 6.3 at +2 hours. Previously I've had 6.5 or thereabouts with this dinner so I was pleasantly surprised to be just a tad lower than what I was getting before—but really, it's more or less the same given the old caveats about meters.

So, what do I reckon so far? I still think it's too soon to tell. This is only day 2 of 'carbing up' and this blood glucose malarky is not an exact science. I must admit, I was very pleased to see that my preprandial was back down this evening and also that my post prandial was in line. At this stage I have no idea whether this evening's readings are just a flash in the pan. I had high hopes after observing that my breakfast readings were approaching my previous pattern but my post lunch figure was a downer. It did come down, though, and to a greater extent than yesterday—although different meals have different after effects so I need to bear that in mind. Reality check and all that.

All in all, it's been an interesting day. Tomorrow may tell another story.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the update. I would think that you need a few more days for your body to 'settle in' to a more regular pattern. It doesn't seem like you are having any adverse effects. You might expect your postprandial to be a bit higher after increasing the carbs but I think what you are also looking to discover is whether you return to normal levels sooner than you were doing. Keep us posted.

PS, with regards to my frequent episodes of low blood sugar, I am going to be more disciplined with my eatng during the day to avoid these episodes which usually occur when exercising the dog (and myself) in the afternoon, although sometimes late morning. My theory is that I am not taking sufficient carbs, or using up my energy from carbs obtained from breakfast and lunch, so I have insufficient energy to cater for the afternoon exercise. Pretty basic, I guess. I could have said I need to eat more and saved time!!!! I used to snack mid-morning and mid-afternoon but seem to have got out of that habit for no particular reason except that I have not felt so hungry at those times. My lunchtime carbs are typically limited to a wholemeal bread sandwich which is just not enough to get me through.

I find that chomping an apple at the start of the dog walk raises my blood sugars sufficiently to avoid an episode but I still feel as though I am 'on the brink' after the walk, so I think I need something more substantial. I'll see what happens from today onwards by re-introducing my mid-morning and mid-afternoon wholewheat toast with peanut butter or marmite. My problem is that I have got so used to the low blood sugar feeling that I wait until it happens before doing anything .... cart before the horse etc. If I can get through the next 5 days without any episodes then I will assume I have cracked it. I rather suspect that my DN will offer the same advice when I talk about it on Wednesday.
 
This morning my fasting level was 4.7. I was getting into the high 4s before my BGs jumped up, but often in the low 5s. I'm not expecting 4.7 every day, and it could be a flash in the pan. 4.7 used to happen now and then, but I was trending upwards last week. I was awake slightly earlier than usual so that might explain it. Interestingly, I was showing a ketone level of 1.5 first thing. That's one level above trace. I can only conclude that I was very likely in ketosis when I was on fewer carbs. I had 101g yesterday and I seem to have gone into mild ketosis overnight, more so than just a 'normal' trace.

Now for the breakfast readings. I ate after my fasting reading. I had exactly the same breakfast as yesterday. At +2 hours I was 5.2. Once again, a return to my previous normal. The relative increase is slightly higher than yesterday, +0.5 as opposed to +0.2, but at these readings it's hardly significant. This breakfast would typically give me 5.2 to 5.6. After my readings jumped up, I was in the high 5s and low 6s.

Once again, too soon to tell whether these changes will have any significance. I won't draw any conclusions just yet.


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If you use an app like iBGStar it gives you averages at 7, 14, 30 and 90 days so you can see trends for each of you Pre and post meal readings - I find it very helpful


Diagnosed Type II 1998 1 x 80 mg Gliclazide, 4 x 500mg Metformin and 1 x 100mg Sitagliptin - HbA1c - 48 mmol/mol
 
Thanks, Neil. I've made a spreadsheet which gives me my weekly averages. I could see at a glance how the 'jumped up' readings were comparing to previous averages.


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The iBGStar app reads the meter and does it automatically on the fly - check it out it is really very good and I don't even get commission!


Diagnosed Type II 1998 1 x 80 mg Gliclazide, 4 x 500mg Metformin and 1 x 100mg Sitagliptin - HbA1c - 48 mmol/mol
 
I only use one of mine and I have collected a few over the years


Diagnosed Type II 1998 1 x 80 mg Gliclazide, 4 x 500mg Metformin and 1 x 100mg Sitagliptin - HbA1c - 48 mmol/mol
 
OK, my lunchtime readings. Like yesterday, a bit of a disappointment. I ran out of Finn crisps so I had one less than I intended to. I topped up with some sweet cherries to 'carb up' to yesterday's level. I don't normally have these cherries. Although 'low carb', I find them a little bit spiky.

I was 5.3 before lunch. Just a tiny bit higher than after breakfast, so a similar pattern to yesterday i.e. not coming down after the +2 hour breakfast reading. I was up +0.1 actually, but effectively it is staying the same. As it wasn't a particularly high number I wasn't all that bothered.

My +2 hours after lunch figure was a bit of a disappointment at 7.0 but it's still lower than yesterday's 7.6. Was it the cherries, perhaps? I know I would have been lower without the cherries, but I am 'carbing up'. Although it's a high-ish number, it's still under 7.8 and so would be considered 'normal'.

I wouldn't read too much into the fact that it's a lower number than yesterday because meal compositions vary with differing combinations of fats and proteins, etc. I'm not sure about a 3 hour reading because I'm going to run out of test strips at this rate…

UPDATE: took a 3 hour reading. 5.9, comparable with yesterday's 5.8. Today's experience so far has followed a similar pattern as yesterday. Too soon to say if there's any change for the better.


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