Meat and Life Expectancy

THANK YOU. I get so irritated by the meat-is-bad propaganda, including the current NHS Eatwell disinformation. I'm very lucky that my circumstances mean I can choose to eat meat, but it wasn't always so. I am certainly much healthier on less food these days.

Thanks for this article link. I also get fed-up with the anti-meat propaganda which often shows a lack of understanding of the downside of too many carbs in the diet.

I really believe that the day you find out you are T2 you quickly have to drop any principles about veganism.
You are already behind the 8 ball, why reduce your choices even further.
Meat, fish, cheese, eggs are your friends, it's what your primal body was designed to eat.

I see posts about plant based diets for diabetes & just shudder

Ronancastled said:

Meat, fish, cheese, eggs are your friends, it's what your primal body was designed to eat.

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Hmm, that's debatable. We have the grinding teeth of herbivores, not the tearing fangs of obligate carnivores such as cats.

Back in the beginning we were given plants to eat. Not animals.

That said, I do eat meat. I like it, and my body works better when it gets enough meat, preferably beef. Despite my lack of fangs.

Interesting if rather long article in the telegraph this week. Which argues that eating meat is not as bad for the planet as we are being led to believe. Obviously we need to eat good quality rather than factory farmed. The argument is it would be a good place to put money to help the planet. Also just taking an airplane once in the year undoes any good cutting out animal products. Obviously if you are vegan for ethical reasons that is a personal choice. But for saving the planet ditch the foreign holiday.

http://digitaleditions.telegraph.co...ed/0/package/992/pub/992/page/117/article/NaN

SaskiaKC said:

Back in the beginning

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When was that precisely? How many million years ago?

Jo_the_boat said:

Are we not omnivores?
Bit hard to tell with my teeth which resemble a building site, but don't we have incisors and canines as well as grinders?

Anyhow, regarding enjoying meat, we are singing from the same hymn sheet.

Just to extend things a little, there is a very interesting article HERE about how much we, the public, way overestimate the size of minority groups. Regarding this meat / veggy discussion, the perception is that the percentage of us who are vegan / veggy is around 20%, when in fact it is 4%. I believe the simple reason for this is that minority groups make the most noise.

I'm afraid the same is true of climate change. People are very aware that we must do out best for our planet, but the militant and those with massive financial interest shout so loudly that nobody else can get a word in. Sure let's change to renewable energy, but not before it's either ready or viable. Let's use own own resources till the cleaner / greener stuff is ready.

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I agree we are omnivores. We are lucky, at least in the richer countries, to be able to choose from a variety of healthy diets depending upon our moral judgements and health needs.

I disagree with your take on climate change, you seem to be advocating kicking the can down the road to our children and grandchildren. My grandfather always told me, "A stitch in time saves nine."
The consequences of our choices today will still be affecting the Earth and its inhabitants long after we are dead.

Definitely omnivore teeth here. Also omnivore gut. No need to chew cud,, reingest faecal matter or have huge fermentation-vat type stomachs. Everyone who is lucky enough to be able to choose their diet is not going to be criticised by me for going off-piste, but biological facts should be acknowledged too.

Jo_the_boat said:

We are drifting away from the meat eaters love-fest but, just to give you some alternative views on climate change, there are a few articles here if you scroll down and click on the + button. I think we are being fed some alarmist and dangerous nonsense funded by people with an endless pot of 'green deal' money and with a public face of extinction rebellion idiots who glue themselves to our roads and get the publicity.

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Yes, I've seen and read these points of view before. I don't share it. I prefer to read reports from reputable scientists. To my ear, it sounds startlingly similar to tactics deployed by the tobacco industry for years. But I'm sure you aren't about to change your mind and neither will I so I guess we'll leave it at that.

Jo_the_boat said:

I like meat and eat very few carbs. I didn't go searching for this article, it just popped up on another site I follow.

It's an interesting article about meat and life expectancy.

We are constantly bombarded in MSM with Veggy, vegan, plant-based food, often laden with carbs and highly processed. Here, for carnivores, is an antidote.

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All the current food trends, again, are like fashion: they keep changing.

I'm a meat eater and apart from pork, nothing to do with religion, I just don't like it and haven't for 25yrs and i'm 61 and a type 1 for 47yrs.

However, meat is almost the best source of protein and contains essential fats that are good for us. But moderation, that's all it is moderation. People get so wrapped up in all the rubbish they see on tv, I got rid of terrestrial & satelitte tv for that very reason. This plant based fad word is a more edible word than "greens" It's the psychology being twisted and abused to get easily led people to be brainwashed into things the commercial scum want you to spend your money on.

If you want to watch what you're eating and this has been scientifically proven, that following a diet that is compatible to your blood group. Mine is "O RhD Positive" and that is diet containing protein rich foods meat mainly; avoiding dairy as much as I do; wheat produce apart from breads made from spelt flour or Essenee bread but certain fruits & veg must be avoided. Every blood group has certain foods to avoid and people may find their health would improve if they followed such advice rather than the faddy police telling you/us/them what to eat.

Other folk might be (are) different but my digestive system won't accept too many vegetables. If I try to live purely on vegetables (without much in the way of carbs) my stomach and bowel start to play up. If I eat the same food with carbs, it's not so bad. However, carbs, for me, are bad and I try to stick to no more than 20 carbs a day (more or less successfully). Getting my protein from a vegetarian diet is problematic without grains and pulses. So - meat, fish, cheese, dairy and eggs need to be involved. At the moment, I've gone right off the thought of most meats (it's all in the mind, I think and I'm trying to deal with it) so am depending on eggs, cheese, bacon and fish along with some vegetables, but not too many. It's a bit restricted but not too bad and still allows me to stay low carb.

I hate the thought of, for whatever reason, the idea of vegetarian or vegan diets seem to be the aim for everyone whether they want it or not. Even government seem to be moving towards getting rid of meat in our diet (supposedly for the sake of the planet). But I wonder how sustainable it would be for us to have to be using only plant based foodstuffs - for a start there are areas that cannot be used to grow vegetables or grains, but can support livestock. Growing sufficient plants to provide food for the whole world, using only those areas viable for growing, is, to my mind, debatable.

So - on balance I am for ... choice ... and maintaining the ability to have choice.

Annb said:

I hate the thought of, for whatever reason, the idea of vegetarian or vegan diets seem to be the aim for everyone whether they want it or not. Even government seem to be moving towards getting rid of meat in our diet (supposedly for the sake of the planet). But I wonder how sustainable it would be for us to have to be using only plant based foodstuffs - for a start there are areas that cannot be used to grow vegetables or grains, but can support livestock. Growing sufficient plants to provide food for the whole world, using only those areas viable for growing, is, to my mind, debatable.

So - on balance I am for ... choice ... and maintaining the ability to have choice.

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@Annb you've put it very nicely, particularly your thoughts regarding the viability and sustainability of universal vegetarian/vegan diets long term. I'm a firm believer that nature knows best and we wouldn't be living in a world that supports both edible living creatures and plants, etc in all their various forms otherwise.

I'm definitely an omnivore (regardless of the type of the few teeth I still have remaining), and what I'm seeing coming onto supermarket shelves now appears to be very much processed "green" junk food rather than more natural produce, and is in no way what I'd consider healthly, and certainly not what will ever go anywhere near my mouth.

SaskiaKC said:

Hmm, that's debatable. We have the grinding teeth of herbivores, not the tearing fangs of obligate carnivores such as cats.

Back in the beginning we were given plants to eat. Not animals.

That said, I do eat meat. I like it, and my body works better when it gets enough meat, preferably beef. Despite my lack of fangs.

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To quote the article "Before agriculture was introduced (circa 11–9000 years ago), human ancestors could not grow, harvest and store the majority of plant-based products as the staple food. Plant foods are mostly accessible only in particular seasons of the year. Contrariwise, animals, including large game, small animal, fish and some insects, could constantly provide humans with meat as the staple food."

Jo_the_boat said:

I like meat and eat very few carbs. I didn't go searching for this article, it just popped up on another site I follow.

It's an interesting article about meat and life expectancy.

We are constantly bombarded in MSM with Veggy, vegan, plant-based food, often laden with carbs and highly processed. Here, for carnivores, is an antidote.

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It’s very important to choose meat that is grass fed, wild caught, free range, and organic. The industrial meats that are being raised, processed, and sold to us can be very high in omega sixes, wild beef that is grass fed has a better proportion of omega threes to omega sixes. Also, the chemicals that farmed fish are raised in and fed are very delatorious to our health. We have to remember that our ancient ancestors were not bombarded by all these chemicals. Type two diabetes can be caused by the poisons and toxins used in agriculture and fed to the animals in our food supply. Just like we should strive to choose organic plant-based foods, we need to choose meat/animal products that have been raised with high-quality food sources. Along with that, as diabetics, we really need to control the number of calories we eat each day and ensure that they come from the highest quality food sources.

Sangre said:

Type two diabetes can be caused by the poisons and toxins used in agriculture and fed to the animals in our food supply.

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can I have a link to scientific proof about that please?

As someone on benefits, this is not going to happen. I also doubt the validity of the idea that only

Sangre said:

It’s very important to choose meat that is grass fed, wild caught, free range, and organic.

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is valid and nutritious. Again, source of this claim please?

Sangre said:

Along with that, as diabetics, we really need to control the number of calories we eat each day and ensure that they come from the highest quality food sources.

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And to add to @lucylocket61 's questions, why do you think all diabetics need to control their calories? Any source on that?