Meat fats and IR - your experiences.

Kristin251 said:

Hmmmm.... now I'm wondering if JUST eating the fat without the meat would have the same effect on bs and IR?? Maybe it's the combination of the fat and the meat together. Not sure how I'd test that haha

Click to expand...

I can tell you from my own experiments ! - just eating the fat from the meat, or the skin from a chicken, leaves my blood sugars unaffected

CherryAA said:

I can tell you from my own experiments ! - just eating the fat from the meat, or the skin from a chicken, leaves my blood sugars unaffected

Click to expand...

Interesting. And if you eat the meat as well? Even in small portions?

In small portions nothing much happens, maybe a 1 mol increase for a couple of hours extra. If I eat a large steak, then my fasting blood sugar the day after will be maybe 1 mmol higher- which will look like my DP is stronger, but the overall numbers will come back down after the DP has worked through .

When I first began LCHF I was eating on average about 85 g fat per day of which 36g was mono and 25 g saturated . My LCHF diet to that point had reduced Hba1C to 64 - but had not improved HDL ( see signature) . At the appointment the doctor had told me to exercise more as a way to increase my HDL and reduce Trigs. I knew I already had been exercising a lot more and that had not had the desired effect. I knew from my own research that consuming more saturated fat would improve HDL, better than exercise would, so I decided to do that for a while - it worked as per my signature.

For the period Nov to March I upped fats to 98g per day all of the increase was saturated which went up to 37 g . mono stayed at 37 g .

In order to do this I deliberately focused on additional butter and cream , fatty lamb, fatty mince, fatty steaks with the fat left on, fatty bacon with the fat left on. I ate fat off meat that other people left, chicken legs with skin, broths made using the fats from animals. My exercise routine stayed unchanged. The impact was a measurable improvement in my lipid profile as shown in my signature.

The end result of all this was that my blood sugar came down to normal and my lipids improved, but my weight stabilised instead of reduced.

I am now trying to fix that as well by reducing my calories - with a resulting reduction in fats down to 68g. I am trying to keep the reduction proportional across all fat types . I guess I will find out at the end of the month what happens to my HDL as a result.! Hope that helps

I think what @Kristin251 experiences as opposed to @CherryAA typifies one major difference between Type 1s and Type 2s. Our bodies probably handle the insulin dosing required for protein/fat whereas Type 1's have to work out their own dosing - much trickier proposition all round.

Indy51 said:

I think what @Kristin251 experiences as opposed to @CherryAA typifies one major difference between Type 1s and Type 2s. Our bodies probably handle the insulin dosing required for protein/fat whereas Type 1's have to work out their own dosing - much trickier proposition all round.

Click to expand...

Sounds right to me !! When I was type 2 still producing some insulin it wasn't this difficult getting insulin there at the same time to match food is tricky.

Without mouth of this or too much of that can make a huge difference which is why I eat the same macros at each meal at each time of day and I know my doses

I can im

Kristin251 said:

Sounds right to me !! When I was type 2 still producing some insulin it wasn't this difficult getting insulin there at the same time to match food is tricky.

Without mouth of this or too much of that can make a huge difference which is why I eat the same macros at each meal at each time of day and I know my doses

Click to expand...

Yes I can imagine it must be extremely difficult. having seen what an enormous difference not eating carbs makes to my own blood sugar movements, I cannot begin to imagine how hard it must be for a T1 person, especially if they are eating a lot of carbs as per the instructions . The amount f discipline required to keep it all under control must be immense for all T1's. I salute you !

CherryAA said:

I can im


Yes I can imagine it must be extremely difficult. having seen what an enormous difference not eating carbs makes to my own blood sugar movements, I cannot begin to imagine how hard it must be for a T1 person, especially if they are eating a lot of carbs as per the instructions . The amount f discipline required to keep it all under control must be immense for all T1's. I salute you !

Click to expand...

Thanks!! It is a different life now. I haven't eaten carbs foods forever but now the amount of protein and fat need to be correct. All these little ( big) intricacies.

My typing goes to cyber space and auto correct has no idea what I'm saying.

Not 'mouth ' of this was supposed to be not too much. Silly autocorrect

Fleegle said:

@bulkbiker biker I have had a good hunt around and cannot find anyone producing an Insulin meter sadly. Perhaps we should crowd source one...

Click to expand...

There may be one coming.. I was at the PHC conference and a Dutch guy had some in his bag or so I was told.

One way we can test our insulin effectiveness is to do an OGTT. It will show how effective our natural insulin is, but won't necessarily show whether it is insulin levels or insulin resistance causing the problems, but better than nothing. I am considering doing one myself.

Fleegle said:

How do you do one of those? Is that something your Dr has to do?

Click to expand...

You can have them done by a doctor. This is one of the alternative ways of diagnosing diabetes that doctors can use.
You can do one at home if you have 2 hours to spare where you can sit, do nothing, and continue your overnight fast.
You have to fast for 8 to 12 hours, then test. The result of this test is your baseline.
You then drink 75g of pure glucose. (You can measure this out from a bottle of Lucozade.)
You then sit quietly for 2 hours, not eating or drinking anything.
You test yourself half hourly from the moment you take the drink.
You can stop after the 2 hour test but can continue half hourly after that to see when you drop.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/oral-glucose-tolerance-test.html

If you decide to do such a test you need to increase your carbs to a normal level (above 150g, possibly more, I'm not sure) for several days before the test or you will give your pancreas such a shock you will almost certainly fail the test and it won't be a true result. I also believe you have to stop taking certain medications beforehand.

Indy51 said:

Also, for people having issues with weight loss stalls, you might find Ted Naiman's work interesting:
http://www.burnfatnotsugar.com/

Click to expand...

Just adding to this comment - there's an interesting twitter thread that started with Ted Naiman replying to someone on the subject of the carbohydrate/insulin hypothesis, insulin resistance, etc:

https://twitter.com/tednaiman/status/893005987296063488

I think his advice for people having difficulty losing weight is probably worth testing - concentrate on protein first, low carbs and only adding fat depending on whether you're in weight maintenance. I recall reading somewhere (can't remember where though) ages ago that adding lots of fat should only occur in the adaptation phase of LCHF - after a couple of weeks and once your body adjusts to burning fat for energy, if you want to lose weight you should encourage the fat oxidation to come from body stores rather than dietary input. Made sense to me at the time and still does, which is why I've never understood the need for fat bombs, etc.

I liked the comment about metabolic flexibility which most Type 2s don't have, at least on diagnosis. Some seem to have better success than others in regaining it. Maybe some people have other unknown pathologies that compromise their ability to achieve it.

Partly they are fun and if my wife does not like the food I cook, I will be forced to cook two set of meals. Hence I care a lot more about making low carb food nice then I do about losing weight. (I have lost half a stone so far, but BG control is my aim not losing weight.)

Thanks for the thread and all the comments! Re the metabolic flexibility idea, Dr Mercola suggests that once ketosis is established you should have a monthly higher carb day (150g so not exactly a massive binge). As a trainer, its an idea I have heard of before (namely carb cycling). It is based on the idea that our paleolithic ancestors would have occasionally had access to higher amounts of carbs. I like this idea!
In the meantime my philosophy is to eat real foods according to my appetite and trust that my body will be okay. I think some people think Low carb is a pass to the All the protein and Fat You Can Eat buffet but too much of these good things is still too much if you are gaining weight or failing to use up your excess fat weight. i am NOT saying that this is any of you as I don't know what your diet is or how many carbs you consume but if you believe that managing IR is all about reducing insulin then its logical to further tinker with those foods with a high insulin index (carbohydrates) and to be aware that proteins will trigger an insulin response. Fibre will mitigate the effects and fat is a neutral and satiating. No need for any 'bombs' though unless you are hungry between meals or trying to maintain/gain.
I try to be in ketosis because as has been mentioned carbohydrate is not worth the hassle of calculating a dose of insulin for a type 1. I already have plenty of variables to calculate in. Not that the NHS dieticians get this approach at all!

Aside from diabetes, I listen to my Professor in Oncology who states meat is no good, especially processed meat. He is very much for plant based / nut and seed oils instead.
He didnt go OTT on coconut oil as being a healthy option though.
I know my body has better bgs and cholesterol from plant oils. However I am mildy anaemic and low b12/folate but think that is more related to my limited eating.