More fat the better??

The whole subject is very complex. Fats do have some inherent carbs so do raise blood sugar a little

Definitely no surprise to me re. the extra fat fixing transit times - which is why I'm always amazed when people are told to have fibre and more fibre - fat and water will keep things running smoothly for most people. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the low fat fad is responsible for a lot of the modern epidemic of IBS.

There was an interesting article today about the bulletproof coffee and going too far with fat. It definitely can have an insulinogenic effect, though still far less than carbs and protein: http://authoritynutrition.com/3-reasons-why-bulletproof-coffee-is-a-bad-idea/

I think you already know that a high-fat diet can cause insulin resistance DD, time will tell if it's down to the higher fat content of your diet but it looks good so far.

noblehead said:

I think you already know that a high-fat diet can cause insulin resistance DD, time will tell if it's down to the higher fat content of your diet but it looks good so far.

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Does it? As far as I'm aware it's high carb that causes insulin resistance not high fat? Did you mean to say that?

What change in food did you make to make it higher fat?

Daibell said:

Does it? As far as I'm aware it's high carb that causes insulin resistance not high fat? Did you mean to say that?

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No high fat diets do also, there's been a lot of talk about it on the forum in recent times. This article from the Mendosa site explains what happens after the carbs in a meal have been digested:

http://www.mendosa.com/The-Fat-of-the-Matter-How-Dietary-Fat-Effects-Blood-Glucose.htm


There's been a few type 1's on the forum over the years who LCHF say that they have a high insulin usage taking into consideration the few carbs that they eat in their diet, this member found that removing saturated fat reduced his basal needs:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/saturated-fats.48599/#p438010

There's this and many more articles on the recent research that was carried out be the Joslin Institute:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130327190328.htm

Quote noblehead

I think you already know that a high-fat diet can cause insulin resistance DD, time will tell if it's down to the higher fat content of your diet but it looks good so far.

unquote

The STV program - discussed elsewhere on the forum - alluded to that but was condemned by many members. Do you have a link or reference to back it up?

There is a huge amount of evidence for the role of dietary fats in the development of insulin resistance. You may not agree with it but evidence based guidelines don't just come out of thin air.

Too little fat (replaced by refined carbs) will indeed result in higher trigs but too high a level total fat and particularly saturated fat have been implicated in insulin resistance for many years.
I realise that you don't think much of dietitians but this article saves me giving lots of references to papers.
Under the heading ' The effect of diet' is a summary of the more important studies and you can certainly follow the references.
(major ones 24-27)
http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/070113p42.shtml
But note also the section on Reversing Insulin Resistance where the effects of calorie restriction are mentioned
" caloric restriction promoting visceral fat loss may reduce or even override the impact of dietary fat type on insulin resistance" *

There are a couple of papers from the last year which look at the mechanisms involved . Both look at the role of sat fats in the causation of inflammation. (these next 2 are both quite technical)
There is a diagram that summarises the researchers view of the events here:
http://www.cell.com/cell/abstract/S0092-8674(14)00606-0
and this is a review so a discussion on the available (sometimes contradictory ) evidence
http://www.nutritionj.com/content/13/1/12
I'll also add this easier to understand paper describing the increase in insulin resistance in a small group of women with gestational diabetes who were assigned to a higher fat diet . The babies of the mothers on the higher fat diet were also fatter. It was a tiny study but had the advantage of that all meals were supplied rather than relying on dietary recall.
http://www.endocrineweb.com/profess...inked-insulin-resistance-gestational-diabetes

*It's important to distinguish between total fat in grams and fat as a percentage. Some people by adopting a lower carb diet actually eat the same amount or less fat but a higher percentage because they are eating fewer calories. In the average American's diet, they are eating a lower percentage of fat but the amount of calories they eat has gone up (by about 450 cal a day since the 1970s) so in reality they are still eating the same amount or slightly more fat and much of that comes from manufactured foods which are high in refined fats, refined sugars and salt(ie the idea that they adopted a low fat diet is a myth and they certainly didn't start eating lots of fruit (as in whole fruit) and veg (that increased but in the form of processed potatoes ie crisps and chips) not even whole grains) It's harder to do the same analysis with UK figures because they have changed the way they collect them, I suspect it wouldn't be different.

Thanks for the various posts and links about high fat and insulin resistance. I was aware that you needed to increase your insulin a bit to take account of fats but perhaps not the extent of the effects on the metabolism. If I understand correctly this insulin resistance is not quite the same as that affecting the muscles due to excess carbs i.e. it affects the liver? Perhaps it is the same?

Problem with most of these studies is that you are rarely told exactly what they ate. Was it really high fat? Or high fat AND high carbs? For example, from one of the articles phoenix linked to, the low fat and high fat meals are both mashed potatoes:

The low fat meals were mashed potato (12 g fat) or all bran (13 g fat), whereas high fat meals were 200 g instant mashed potato enriched with cream.

So don't take their word for it. I myself have no effect on bg at all from fat, not even saturated. Maybe it is individual.

In the book

http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Fat-Surprise-Healthy/dp/1451624425

the author states that eating fat doesn't make you fat. The Inuit people are the biggest fat eaters in the world with low rates of heart disease,obesity and diabetes. The STV program gave the impression that fat people got diabetes because they were fat. How then does thin people get it? The followers of the Atkins diet ate high amounts of fat and lost weight which meant they didn't put it on. Critics will probably point out it was because of a low carb intake?

I think one the main things to note with all of these diets being mentioned; Atkins, Paleo, High Fibre, LCHF etc is that they all restrict sugar and if followed properly they all - to some degree - work! That should surely be a sign to us in the diabetic community and for the whole world, cut out sugar it is toxic to humans in the levels we are consuming it at.

When I was first diagnosed a dietician told me that roughly 20% of obese people would never develop high cholesterol or get diabetes. Several of my friends who have diabetes are stick thin, but had very stressful jobs. The stress they were under caused them to develop metabolic syndrome which effected their hormones and the leptin/insulin levels in the body and hey presto The big D!

The truth is out there - we just need to grab it and hold on.

Donnellysdogs I too found that adding more fat to my diet alleviated chronic stomach and bowel issues. I was able to discontinue long-standing meds for acute heartburn and stomach discomfort and also found that constipation was a thing of the past. No more painful burping or passing of wind for me!

Rory lad said:

Donnellysdogs I too found that adding more fat to my diet alleviated chronic stomach and bowel issues. I was able to discontinue long-standing meds for acute heartburn and stomach discomfort and also found that constipation was a thing of the past. No more painful burping or passing of wind for me!

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Through eating far too much fibre in my diet made me go to the loo about 4 times per day and was the prime reason for me having a colonoscopy done. When I told the doctor who did the procedure what I had been eating (bulgar), I was told off in a nice way, that although eating some fibre is good, too much of it isn't.


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