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MP's campaign to force testing before driving

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by iddt01, Mar 2, 2011.

  1. mehdave

    mehdave Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Common sense is fine if its a long trip or your feeling unwell or you know you have hypo unawareness then sure test. Especially if your a T1 and get free strips. The issue allot of people seem to be glossing over here is this guy wants it a law for every single diabetic t1 or t2 to test EVERY SINGLE TIME you go to get in a car and make it illegal for you not to. Its clear this just is not cost effective it would cost millions to police let alone the hundreds of millions to supply every diabetic with test strips to do so.

    Unless of course he wants us to pay for them ourselves. Because you know £1.30 is not high enough for fuel I quite enjoy the idea of having to spend 15 to 30 quid a week on strips to appease this silly law attempt.

    Maybe those wanting this law take a good hard look at what its asking for. Then ask is there better cheaper way. Like above education is the key. Tell people if they are unwell or feel strange to always test before driving. OR if they are going on a long trip to test. Or if you dont have strips and need to use the car as a T2 have a buiscut and wait 15 minutes then drive if you feel fine. Any doubts then dont.

    Think about it people.
     
  2. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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    Now that really is happening and it is about time, anyone who has a licence from one part of the EU can drive anywhere else.
    With the exception of PWD living in Belgium, the UK and Ireland, PWD generally did not have to inform legal authorities about their medical status when a driving licence was obtained prior to diagnosis. Coversely in many countries a person who was on insulin before getting a first licence had to declare it and was given a temporary licence subject to medical review.

    When I developed T1 in France I was able to swap my now useless UK licence (I couldn't renew it without a UK address or doctor) for a permanent French one. Only if I had an accident would there be a medical tribunal. I can of course drive in the UK with my French licence.

    This is changing, new regulations require declaration and a temp licence (up to 5 years, the UK will retain it at 3)
    The 2009 directive also demands a loss of licence for anyone who has recurrent severe hypos , this is defined as a second hypo in a year requiring another person's assistance. People who suffer from a lack of hypo awareness (defined in the UK consultation as total absence of warning symptoms.) will also not be allowed a licence.
    In the consultation document the UK panel suggests that people who regain awareness or have a period without severe hypos will be able to get their licence back.

    When the IDF asked representatives of EU countries whether they would adopt the new directive, 9 countries including the UK said yes, 3 said partly or had intentions, the other 8 said 'don't know or probably', one of those vague ones was France which did implement the directive at the end of last year.
    Driving Licence and Diabetes
    Key Findings IDF Europe Survey 2010
    http://www.idf.org/webdata/docs/idf-eur ... 220910.pdf
     
  3. JUSTFOCUS

    JUSTFOCUS · Well-Known Member

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    I'm very much with sugerless on this one .
    I am type 2 and i have stopped driving because of my blood results .I Personly feel that i am not capable to drive as my levels are so erratic. I abide with health and safety rules that back my desision to do so .I would never ever put anyone threw an accident i felt would'nt have happend if i was'nt diabetic. In reality you might aswell be drink driving.I think cugila could back this up as he is fully aware of the laws concerning this .
    JF
     
  4. jaykay

    jaykay · Well-Known Member

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    When is doubt use common sense. It doesn't have to get any more complicated than that as far as I'm concerned. I've chosen not to drive when I've been emotionally upset, knowing I wouldn't be able to concentrate fully. When you step into a vehicle capable of wreaking havoc, you should be fully capable and aware. To be anything else is criminally stupid.
     
  5. Unbeliever

    Unbeliever · Well-Known Member

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    When I was first prescribed metformin I was horrified at the thought that there could be drivers suffering the confusion and dizziness i suffereed as a side effect let alone other side effects from other drugs.
    I now shudder to think that a new generation of T2s who do not have the means to test and are told that testing is unnecessary - are loose on the roads.
    I am very sorry for everyone concerned in the tragic accident which gave rise to thi thread.
    I know someone who was responsible for the death of a cyclist owing to a hypo. She was an undiagnosed T! at the time. She remebers nothing of the tragedy but has never wanted to drive since -, The incident occurred many years ago.
    It does seem that diabetic drivers may be receiving conflicing and confusing messages.
     
  6. angieG

    angieG Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I know a type 2 who was diagnosed a few months ago but has not been given any medication yet as the hospital just keep doing various blood tests. She has not got a test kit and has not been advised to test herself either.
    She is eating all sorts of carbs as normal despite me advising her she will feel better if she cuts them down. Consequently I'm sure her sugar is well high a lot of the time by her description of how she feels.
    She is driving regularly and openly admits if she does a long journey she drives with the window open to help keep her awake as she feels so sleepy at times (due to her BG levels obviously).
    I know when I was diagnosed with high levels I found driving difficult as my reactions were so much slower than normal so all these folks who are told not to test could also be driving around like this!!
    Will this save the NHS money in the long run one wonders???
    Angie
     
  7. bowell

    bowell · Well-Known Member

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    http://www.personneltoday.com/artic...ics-are-not-more-prone-to-road-accidents.html
     
  8. mehdave

    mehdave Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Thats a great article unfortunately for us. All the proof in the world still wont please those desperate to villanise us as a menace on the roads :roll:
     
  9. bowell

    bowell · Well-Known Member

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    Road traffic accident risk in patients with diabetes mellitus receiving blood glucose-lowering drugs. Prospective follow-up study.


    [email protected]
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19388971
     
  10. JUSTFOCUS

    JUSTFOCUS · Well-Known Member

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    hi folks
    there is a test called a liver trace which could be used against you as a driver i don't know how many times i tell people about driving without testing is dangerous. (should you be involced in a rta you will asked for a breath test and now also a swab test it is vital that you disclose your health issues at this point)
    Cugila will verify the outcome as such cases as he is a ex police traffic officer and knows the laws regarding his experiance of it .Folks please do not drive if your not well enough to do so children an the elderly have been killed by people who ignored this advice.I have scraped there remains of the motorway when i worked alongside of the police as a recovery driver .Believe me and cugila it is a sole destroying situation. I and cugila can only hope people who shouldnt drive don't :( :( :(
     
  11. sabtax

    sabtax · Newbie

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    Hi

    I always test before driving but have found that I can be fine when I leave but BG can drop substantially after even 30 mns driving, especially when driving home from a long day at work. I now, following the DN's advise, sip lucozade sport to keep the BG up. I am newly diagnosed T2 (probably/maybe) on insulin and hypo aware so I am still learning how to control and take everything into account.

    I would never drive if I even doubted my BG levels were too low (I have taken a taxi home rather then drive if I have been unsure) just as I would never drive if I had been drinking. I think most reasonable people would not want to be driving a potentail killing machine if there was any doubt about their fitness to drive.

    How would the law cope with the fact that most meters can be between 0.5 to 1 unit out (also my left hand is always lower than my right). They will need a more reliable (not sure that is the right word) test to prove ir.

    I am newly diagnosed T2 (probably) and on insulin ( and Metformin) BG wonderfully stable between 6 and 7 mmol/l (most of the time) :)
     
  12. bowell

    bowell · Well-Known Member

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    Will you want to stop the police from driving as well ?????????


    Ref http://www.ndpa.info/gb/uploads/police_report_-_word.doc

    http://www.essex.police.uk/news_features/video__audio/audio__video/working_with_diabetes.aspx
     
  13. Debloubed

    Debloubed Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Like most things Diabetes related, this pretty much boils down to common sense. I always test my BG within 10-20 mins of waking up (depends on how much of a rush I'm in!) and then I leave the house within 30 mins of waking up on a work day so do I test again before starting the car? No, I feel comfortable that as I've tested 10/20 mins earlier and I haven't bolused any Novorapid then I will be ok to drive to work. If I was planning on driving 100 miles or so would I re-test before starting the car? Probably, because I am paranoid! This is all based around a standard, hypo/hyper free morning. I get those, on average, 4 or 5 times a week. On the other 2 days, there is invariably a problem, not because I am badly controlled but because I have type 1 diabetes! I actually find those days easier to deal with because the problem is there, in my face and I have to deal with. The days when it all seems to be going swimmingly make me nervous, lol!
     
  14. LittleGreyCat

    LittleGreyCat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Can we be very clear here - testing is for people taking medication to lower blood glucose which can cause the symptoms of a hypo.
    I guess this would be all T1s and some T2s.

    It is not for "all diabetics".
    It is not even for "all diagnosed diabetics" which is not in any way the same as above.

    So:

    Anyone using Insulin - no brainer.

    From other threads we see that Metformin (and some other oral drugs) can cause hypos (true of "false" hypos count - it is the symptoms which we are trying to avoid) in some people - so there is a case for people on Metformin to test, although I don't know what percentage of people on Metformin (or other oral drug) get hypo symptoms. If it is vanishingly small then the rule should be "if you have suffereed a hypo, then you must test". As far as I know there are no general restrictions on people using oral drugs.

    T2s not taking any drugs have NO need to test to detect the onset of a hypo. If you get hypos without taking drugs then as far as I can see you are not diabetic (or are in the final stages of starving to death).

    People taking drugs which are causing obvious side effects (such as those described aboveby "Unbeliever") should not drive - but this is NOT a diabetic issue it is a general health issue and has been covered exhaustively.


    Now why don't we stop this demonisation and victimisation of diabetics and focus on the real issue.
    People with health problems which are likely to affect their ability to drive safely should not be driving.
    How do you detect and prevent this?

    Doctors are not obliged to 'shop' their patients to the DVLA which is probably just as well because then this would damage the doctor/patient relationship and discourage people from seeking medical treatment.

    The only way to ensure a level playing field is to require a regular medical examination for all people who hold or wish to hold a driving licence.
    This would detect undeclared (and quite possibly undiagnosed) conditions such as diabetes and defective eyesight without demonising any particular group.
    Frequency of examination could be tailored to the age of the driver, and any warning signs picked up in the previous medical.
    This would of course have to be backed up by much more frequent and rigorous checking of road users to ensure that they held a valid licence.

    If this was implimented then unlicenced and uninsured drivers would also be caught in the net and the roads just might become a slightly safer place.

    The increased medical checking might also increase the chances of early diagnosis of health problems in the bulk of the population and a general improvement in health.

    Loads of benefits, but who would agree to the cost?
    Further, who would agree that they needed a medical before they could drive or continue driving?
    Further, who would accept that it was fair if they failed the medical?

    Legislation is a waste of time unless there is the will and the resource to police it actively.
    It is also a waste of time if there is already legislation in place which covers the issue.
    [Think of all the time wasted making it illegal to drive whilst operating a mobile phone, which failed both the above points.]

    So if you do have to campaign, please campaign for something which is equitable and useful, and also campaign for the resources to implement the legislation effectively.

    Cheers

    LGC
     
  15. bowell

    bowell · Well-Known Member

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    Cant see your point/logic here ,
    Think by now Everyone knows its illegal to use a mobile when driving ?
    and drivers are being fined for it , if you have an accident when using a mobile your stuffed

    By your Logic NO! point making Rape or Murder illegal because you can not stop it
    well any thing illegal now ?


    Police numbers are being cut now?
    Do you really want a Police state stopping everyone at checkpoints every day at every intersection?



    This Doc covers medical other conditions inc diabetes
    So why do we need More ?????
    Clearly stats
    Drivers do not need to tell DVLA if their diabetes is treaded by tablets, diet or both and they are free of the complications listed


    http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/medical/~/me ... lance.ashx
     
  16. sugarless sue

    sugarless sue · Master

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    A false assumption LGC. I have had several hypos, am not on any medication and am certainly not starving to death !

    Any Diabetic should test before driving, it's a personal responsibility that goes with the condition. It takes seconds and could keep you safe and other road users.......no brainer to me !
     
  17. Debloubed

    Debloubed Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    But does that mean that everyone should test before they drive? As obviously it's not just diabetes medication which can cause hypo's, so if a person with diabetes who controls without meds has hypo's and people without diabetes can have them too (or low blood sugar or insulin resistance, etc)? Where does it end?!
     
  18. sugarless sue

    sugarless sue · Master

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    I think so. Safety on the roads is not something to be taken lightly especially when you know you have a condition where you could become unsafe to drive and can prevent this by checking your Bg level.
     
  19. Debloubed

    Debloubed Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but for everyone to test just incase they have low blood sugar when they a) don't take hypo inducing drugs or b) don't have diabetes is a bit extreme. Literally, where does it end? And not just with diabetes! If someone were to have a heart attack at the wheel, that could cause a fatal accident, so do all people at high risk of heart attacks or strokes have to had in their licence? I think the current law is sensible. If you use hypo inducing drugs and you have diabetes, then take it seriously and protect yourself and others on the road. Just like everyone else has to :)
     
  20. bowell

    bowell · Well-Known Member

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    WHY ow WHY we have the LAW NOW ??????????????
    Its a Fine line from Nanny to a Police State

    All you Diet only and tablet T2s that are saying your having mind altering hypos then
    Tell the DVLA or hand your license in ,as the current law states ,,,,then stop the twisting on

    Thats how the system works NOW


    All Diet and Tablet Mind Melting T2 Hypo Diabetics out of the buss NOW!!!
    That one on the far side SIR !! Shes eating a sweet

    Anyone with High blood pressure be VARNED

    [​IMG]
     
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