That was a fun bit of brain exercise, my zombie brain absolutely lives on this kind of pretty useless stuff (plus a little glucose)!
That was a fun bit of brain exercise, my zombie brain absolutely lives on this kind of pretty useless stuff (plus a little glucose)!I’m so glad you did the maths there. I was thinking to myself as I started your post how on earth would I work that out. It does make sense though. When you consider that we actually need to ingest zero carbs it stands to reason that’s because the liver makes enough to feed the brain plus a little extra.
So the brain is the cannibal zombie eating the liver (‘s glucose) and anything else we stuff in our mouths needs the insulin (bolus or endogenous) to cover the intake, accounting for any IR we have. Pretty much the way I‘ve always thought of it but from a very different angle Lol. Good to test my understanding i guess. Apologies @catinahat for bringing the horror movie characters back into the discussion.
Hi,which suggests for those eating much lower than 150 that the liver is producing quite a lot to make up the difference and make enough to get stuck. Anyone know how much livers kick out?
If we were in caveperson mode wouldn't we be just as driven to gather some food as to catch it? We'd need to be vigilant while gathering, which might include running like **** ... but if our cave was near some berry-bearing bushes or nut-bearing trees, we might not have to run like **** very far (in nut and berry season at any rate).Might it be because we are in caveperson mode? Which drives us to catch some food or run like **** rather than use much of our thought processes at the start of the day? Of course, we still need to think even then, but brain/body interface probably prefers us to be more physical.
Except for what your basal is doing, that's mopping up glucose you've produced yourself to my thinking.Hi,
For me. I know 10g of carbs can raise my baseline by 3mmol? I’ve worked out for me with “foot on the floor.” I’m more likely to get a liver dump scrambling round during my morning routine prior to work? So, for me. No more (at an estimate.) than 20g..
It’s a good point made. Lantus can be fickle. (IME.) there’s certainly by my reasoning using meters & sensor 20g too much “help.”Except for what your basal is doing, that's mopping up glucose you've produced yourself to my thinking.
Absolutely agree, but don't forget that nuts and berries (ask Yogi bear) are only around at certain times of year as you have said, whereas fish and meat is always about. Depends a lot on when and where we evolved, I suppose. And on the neighbours, who might have beaten us to the nuts and berries, blast them!. but if our cave was near some berry-bearing bushes or nut-bearing trees, we might not have to run like **** very far (in nut and berry season at any rate).
About that 150 gram figure.No I’m not a zombie hungry for brains. Just feeling like a zombie without a brain today
But if our brains require approximately 150g of glucose a day to function, doesn’t that mean we (T2 with our own insulin) should all be able to eat that many carbs at least, knowing our brain will burn it regardless of whatever our other cells fail to do because of insulin resistance? Or are our brains insulin resistant too? and only snacking on the glucose feast 150g of carbs a day would represent to those of us on keto rather than eating it all?
Just how much gluconeogenisis is required when keto to provide the brain with the smorgasbord of glucose it seems to want in oreder to allow it to pick and choose nibbles whilst ignoring the bulk of it? It appears it might ultimately use 150 a day but it can’t use everything that’s offered so needs more offering, based on the first question I asked above, leaving the unused leftovers to sit in the blood and end up as fat cells.
Now I’ve typed this I‘m thinking if other cells can be IR why not the brain and it seems a silly question but I’ll ask it anyway.
I always read this as 70% of overall needs, with ketones meeting the rest, rather than 70% of the 150g ish of glucose. Interesting And it does indeed read that way in this link.About that 150 gram figure.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/does-the-brain-need-carbs
That states the (roughly) 150 grams of glucose figure for full carbohydrate metabolism, but suggests that 70% of the brain's energy requirements can be met by ketones.
So roughly 45 grams of glucose per day as a minimum.
This can be provided by gluconeogenesis.
You could view this as 2 grams of glucose per hour, which isn't very much.
Hey I’m talking about zombies. No need for logic or backup. Just ideas.I have stayed away from this thread because I haven't got the back up.
The 150g figure is highly debateable, regardless of how you cut it up. I know for sure our brains work better and clears when ketones are used. Without carbs, our energy levels are higher, we remember and take in more, and our brains are more reactive, effective, active and manages our health issues better when asleep!
If like me, you have fasted for more than three days, the difference in brain function is total. So, because I don't want a liver dump, where do I get the glucose? You would think I would need some, but my BG levels remain in normal levels all the time, very little variance.
The 150g nonsense, is in the medical books, and as such is taken as gospel, but like a lot of dietary recommendations is not supported by the experience of a whole raft of those on keto diet for a long time. I have had this quoted by nutritionists, dsns, doctors and sports dieticians. Who still get taught to carb load before exercise!!!!!!
Do you need to eat sufficient amounts of food to keep our brains working, as in three square meals, five portions of fruit and vegetables and so on?
The only time I get hungry is when I come out of normal levels. So my brain isn't hungry for more food, only for logic and reasoning.
Having bacon, eggs, mushrooms, tomatoes and onions all fried after an 80 hours fast is so much more enjoyable as your senses are so alert. It really tastes wonderful. Amazing!
Keep safe!
That is the magic soup of our hormones, cells, neurobiology, microbiology in our blood and the gunge of all the rest of our bodily fluids. And the percentage balance of each of the above our blood has.Hey I’m talking about zombies. No need for logic or backup. Just ideas.
I’ve always assumed the 150g refers to absolute glucose needs over and above what ketones can do for you in the lack of additional carbs (A lot of clarity for most of us) @LittleGreyCat has given an alternative view above of no many that might be.
I have to admit I’ve never dug down into where that 150g of glucose (not carbs) comes from. Nor have I assumed you need 3 meals a day or the 5 fruit and veg (which won’t help create ketones anyway)
By brain hunger I didn’t mean literally. I just meant where is brain fuel coming from
Not sure where it came from but it’s 150g of glucose not carbs required (apparently). It’s just that too many don’t realise carbs are not the only source of glucose.is 150g a random number or is there scientific evidence that 150g for the brain to function and how did they arrive to that conclusion. When I was not a diabetic T2, I did the Aitkin diet and well into ketone process, while doing a course at college for work. I was at my most sharpest mentally. As a T2 when low carbing my mental function is so much better than when eating carbs, as my brain would become dull.
Are people gullible into believing we need that many carbs.
Maybe its a non medical way of zombifying people into believing that carbohydrates are good, as the senses and brain power is dulled on overload, in turn, the pharmaceutical companies become rich as people become more ill with all sorts of conditions.
brain does not need carbs if it can use glucose from a different source. Making carbs obsolete as the body makes its own glucose.Not sure where it came from but it’s 150g of glucose not carbs required (apparently). It’s just that too many don’t realise carbs are not the only source of glucose.
Exactly what I saidbrain does not need carbs if it can use glucose from a different source. Making carbs obsolete as the body makes its own glucose.
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