MY DIABETIC REVIEW AND THEIR OPINIONS VS YOURS.

Good luck with it all. I am T1 so am not as restricted in my dietary choices as you are (although I'm aware some think that being vegan is restrictive but it never seems so to me).

I think the scales are going to be extremely useful. I weigh up every portion of my meal as I serve so that I can total up the carbs on the plate at the end - I'd be lost without a good set of scales!

Q007 said:

Saw my diabetic nurse on Friday, two of them following a big jump in Hba1c 40 to 101.

Just the salient points remember, please dont shoot the messenger, I had a beasting the other evening on here.

1. Be careful with fruit even fructose will raise bgs. Just enough to fit in the palm of your hand.

2. Go back to all you learned on the xpert course, the timeline is on my PC, you went on the course, your next Hba1c was 40 down from 58.

3. Yes, 1/3rd carbs 1/3rd protein 1/3 veg the 'eat well plate' you have to have carbs to give your body fuel. Too much carbs will be stored as fat.

4. What do you mean LCHF? you learnt on the course fats are bad and cause atherosclerosis. Dont have sausages they are full of fat - but they are grilled slowly - NO you must avoid all fats. Trim your bacon you have for breakfast like all meats.

5. I have breakfast, then nothing till dinner which is served 4-8pm then I have charcoal based crackers cheese and tomato for supper around 10pm.
NO supper sounds like a snack not a meal you must have 3 proper meals per day, what happened to lunch!!
Dont eat after 8-9pm.

6. Dont let any web forum steer you away from XPERT course, because you have solid evidence it worked for you.

7. No, dont binge on the weekend then expect your body to fix itself IS correct. You can have treats but watch your intake and dont consume your whole weekend treats on a Saturday night as you're doing. You'll never control snacking if you binge on a weekend. Why dont you test on the weekend??? You need to see what kind of high spikes your body is experienced with out of control binge.

8. YES, I agree buy a set of scales with tare??! function to get yourself used to controlling portions.

9. Use the GI index as another guide is correct. Eat baby / new potatoes not Maris Pipers which is near the top of GI table. Enough to fit in the palm of your hand again.

10. Keep testing till we get your Hba1c under control, after that its not our policy to support sundries for testing. Some GP'S do some dont, we dont except in short cases like yours.

11. We can't do a Hba1c test now we have to wait 90 days so we can do a test end on July.

If you've read this post to here, thank you.

Since last week when I've rejoined this forum;

A. bought an electronic scales so
I can get used to measuring
out portions to manage carbs
Better.

B. Bought a marble based
Based wire cheese cutter
So I can control measures
On the XPERT course they
Said matchbox portion per
Day.

C. Recognised my failure which
Is grazing through the day.
I've started reading packets
Again, I'll bring questions
Here.

Think I'm tooled up it's beating the grazing and constant craving
Will be hardest for me.

Here we go then, I must loose another 1-2 stone too.

Q (nickname)

Click to expand...

Darn, they're really putting you through the wringer eh.... They're holding fast to old NHS guidelines; they changed this year though, to include LCHF... Ah well.

You have a meter. Test your little heart out and figure out what works for you. If you can't trust strangers on a forum, who can you trust? No, but seriously, trust your meter and what it tells you. Go from there. We're not a one-size-fits-all, everyone has different levels of insulin production, resistance, sensitivity, and wahey, the liverdumps... Learn what your body responds well to. It's as good a place to start as any. I've frustrated many a specialist, but on their advice I'd be on insulin, unable to walk and thrush-covered by now. My HbA1c is 33 and I'm physically fitter than I have been in well over a decade or more. I'll march to the beat of my own drummer, thanks. Besides, where do they get off telling you off like you're a disobedient child? It's your health, your body.

Again: do what feels right for you. If you want to follow their advice, do, but just be sure to test and see whether it's working for you. If it's not, try something else and test that. I know I'll never go back to carbs myself. But that's me.

Good luck man.
Jo

Definitely won't shoot the messenger.

I can only speak for myself. When I was diagnosed my HbA1c was 122. I figured I had to do something radical and chose keto less than 20g per day.

It took around 4 weeks to break the carb addiction. It was an utter relevation. Overnight the cravings stopped. I didn't have any desire to snack. In fact there were times I couldn't be bothered to eat.

I would never have been able to achieve my following HbA1c of 35 4 months later, without the guidance and the support from this forum.

Or I could have followed NHS dietary advice and God knows where I would be now.

Good luck Q

Q007 said:

Saw my diabetic nurse on Friday, two of them following a big jump in Hba1c 40 to 101.

Just the salient points remember, please dont shoot the messenger, I had a beasting the other evening on here.

1. Be careful with fruit even fructose will raise bgs. Just enough to fit in the palm of your hand.

2. Go back to all you learned on the xpert course, the timeline is on my PC, you went on the course, your next Hba1c was 40 down from 58.

3. Yes, 1/3rd carbs 1/3rd protein 1/3 veg the 'eat well plate' you have to have carbs to give your body fuel. Too much carbs will be stored as fat.

4. What do you mean LCHF? you learnt on the course fats are bad and cause atherosclerosis. Dont have sausages they are full of fat - but they are grilled slowly - NO you must avoid all fats. Trim your bacon you have for breakfast like all meats.

5. I have breakfast, then nothing till dinner which is served 4-8pm then I have charcoal based crackers cheese and tomato for supper around 10pm.
NO supper sounds like a snack not a meal you must have 3 proper meals per day, what happened to lunch!!
Dont eat after 8-9pm.

6. Dont let any web forum steer you away from XPERT course, because you have solid evidence it worked for you.

7. No, dont binge on the weekend then expect your body to fix itself IS correct. You can have treats but watch your intake and dont consume your whole weekend treats on a Saturday night as you're doing. You'll never control snacking if you binge on a weekend. Why dont you test on the weekend??? You need to see what kind of high spikes your body is experienced with out of control binge.

8. YES, I agree buy a set of scales with tare??! function to get yourself used to controlling portions.

9. Use the GI index as another guide is correct. Eat baby / new potatoes not Maris Pipers which is near the top of GI table. Enough to fit in the palm of your hand again.

10. Keep testing till we get your Hba1c under control, after that its not our policy to support sundries for testing. Some GP'S do some dont, we dont except in short cases like yours.

11. We can't do a Hba1c test now we have to wait 90 days so we can do a test end on July.

If you've read this post to here, thank you.

Since last week when I've rejoined this forum;

A. bought an electronic scales so
I can get used to measuring
out portions to manage carbs
Better.

B. Bought a marble based
Based wire cheese cutter
So I can control measures
On the XPERT course they
Said matchbox portion per
Day.

C. Recognised my failure which
Is grazing through the day.
I've started reading packets
Again, I'll bring questions
Here.

Think I'm tooled up it's beating the grazing and constant craving
Will be hardest for me.

Here we go then, I must loose another 1-2 stone too.

Q (nickname)

Click to expand...

Would you like someone to go through it point by point and explain exactly where your nurses are incorrect or should I just say please re-read daisy's introductory mail and put that into practise and you'll get far better results than your DN's could ever dream about..

Q007 said:

Saw my diabetic nurse on Friday, two of them following a big jump in Hba1c 40 to 101.

Just the salient points remember, please dont shoot the messenger, I had a beasting the other evening on here.

1. Be careful with fruit even fructose will raise bgs. Just enough to fit in the palm of your hand.

2. Go back to all you learned on the xpert course, the timeline is on my PC, you went on the course, your next Hba1c was 40 down from 58.

3. Yes, 1/3rd carbs 1/3rd protein 1/3 veg the 'eat well plate' you have to have carbs to give your body fuel. Too much carbs will be stored as fat.

4. What do you mean LCHF? you learnt on the course fats are bad and cause atherosclerosis. Dont have sausages they are full of fat - but they are grilled slowly - NO you must avoid all fats. Trim your bacon you have for breakfast like all meats.

5. I have breakfast, then nothing till dinner which is served 4-8pm then I have charcoal based crackers cheese and tomato for supper around 10pm.
NO supper sounds like a snack not a meal you must have 3 proper meals per day, what happened to lunch!!
Dont eat after 8-9pm.

6. Dont let any web forum steer you away from XPERT course, because you have solid evidence it worked for you.

7. No, dont binge on the weekend then expect your body to fix itself IS correct. You can have treats but watch your intake and dont consume your whole weekend treats on a Saturday night as you're doing. You'll never control snacking if you binge on a weekend. Why dont you test on the weekend??? You need to see what kind of high spikes your body is experienced with out of control binge.

8. YES, I agree buy a set of scales with tare??! function to get yourself used to controlling portions.

9. Use the GI index as another guide is correct. Eat baby / new potatoes not Maris Pipers which is near the top of GI table. Enough to fit in the palm of your hand again.

10. Keep testing till we get your Hba1c under control, after that its not our policy to support sundries for testing. Some GP'S do some dont, we dont except in short cases like yours.

11. We can't do a Hba1c test now we have to wait 90 days so we can do a test end on July.

If you've read this post to here, thank you.

Since last week when I've rejoined this forum;

A. bought an electronic scales so
I can get used to measuring
out portions to manage carbs
Better.

B. Bought a marble based
Based wire cheese cutter
So I can control measures
On the XPERT course they
Said matchbox portion per
Day.

C. Recognised my failure which
Is grazing through the day.
I've started reading packets
Again, I'll bring questions
Here.

Think I'm tooled up it's beating the grazing and constant craving
Will be hardest for me.

Here we go then, I must loose another 1-2 stone too.

Q (nickname)

Click to expand...

Good luck Q. I note that you had some success when you were motivated to be disciplined but the problem has been that you have been snacking which raises your insulin levels making it hard to shift fat out of your body to be used for energy and raising your bgs.
I wondered why you were snacking so much? It is important to recognise whether this was hunger or for emotional reasons? For example if you were hungry because you had been told to cut back on fat and calories then perhaps you need to eat more fat at meal times in order to keep you full for longer? (having high blood sugars is dangerous for your arteries but it is unproven that fat causes arterial damage by itself only that eating sat fat can raise cholesterol - good cholesterol as well as supposedly 'bad').
On the other hand if you snack for other reasons than hunger and find it hard to control your carb portion sizes, why not try and avoid the very processed ones and reduce the other ones with the exception of above ground veggies. Some people have mentioned carbohydrate addiction and that makes sense if you think of carbohydrates as something that you continue to eat even though your diabetic body doesn't handle them well and that they are NOT essential in any diet.
You can follow the NHS script which hasn't given you sustainable results and beat yourself up for not trying hard enough etc. or be your own experiment guided by others here who've done it successfully. See if it works for you by keeping an eye on the blood sugars, your waist line and your good cholesterol levels.

I would ask your DN if she has heard of the award winning low carb programme here at DCUK. If not, then why not? Some GPs can prescribe it on the NHS for their T2 patients.

@daisy1 could you maybe post a copy of your welcome letter here?

I am so very sorry Q007 - what a terrible thing for your family to have to go through. Be gentle with yourself and take all the time you need to try and make a start with your recovery. There are no quick answers to this sort of dreadful event, and nothing anyone can say will help.

But please - look after yourself - it won't help your family if you are unwell.

Q007 said:

Thank you for the reply, seriously though, what award winning diet? Where can I find it on here? Kind wishes Q.

Click to expand...

Hopefully this link still works

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/lowcarb/

You don't actually need to join it, you could just get advice from all of us, but I feel the programme gives 'low carb' an air of respectability that should settle any worries that Health Care professionals may have. Dr Unwin, a member here and an NHS GP helped to design the course. He has saved his practice thousands of pounds by allowing his patients to follow it.

Have you had any grief counselling? Sounds like this might be necessary to combat the snacking. Well I know it helped me anyway

Q007 said:

Here we go with a hint or sarcasm, who's daisy? and please remember I'm starting again with this app so not finding it the easiest to navigate. Thank you for your reply anyway, duly noted. Q.

Click to expand...

Ok unusually for me not sarcasm..so..
Daisy usually is tagged in to new members give everyone an intro to low carbing.. you may have missed out this extremely useful guide so here's a link.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/basic-information-for-newly-diagnosed-diabetics.26870/

Keto is the state where your body is running or stored and eaten fat rather than glucose (obtained from carbohydrate ingestion) So effectively where you are "in ketosis" your body is using its stored fat as energy thus leading to weight loss.
This can usually be achieved by cutting way down on dietary carbohydrate (less than 20g per day should almost guarantee ketones in almost everyone). Its a great way to lower blood sugars quickly, lose weight and feel great.

As for your initial post
I'll try to answer the points one by one.

1. Fruit is best avoided by those with T2.. Fructose is processed directly by the liver and as a lot of T2's have NAFLD its best not to add to an already stressed organ by overworking it. So in this case your DN's were half right. Apart from a few berries 50g of raspberries once or twice a week I avoid fruit totally.

2. "X-pert" is usually quite low carb advocating so that could be useful but only if you remember what you learnt.

3. The Eatwell Plate/Guide is designed for the metabolically healthy. (although it's probably not all that good even for them). You have T2 diabetes so you have a problematic metabolism so Eatwell is not for you.

4. The "fats causing atherosclerosis" is outdated rubbish. Fats keep us full there's no need to avoid them although no need to add too many extra..

5. If you can eat only 2 meals a day that's great but don't snack. Eating will cause you to produce insulin and excess insulin isn't good as it leads to storage of carbs as fat.

6. You're still here so you must think that the people who have been there and done it themselves may know more than a DN?

7. Don't have "treats' eat proper food twice a day in a large enough meal so you don't get hungry weekdays and weekends are the same.

8. Scales are great to measure food if you are going to record it and use the data along with blood sugar readings to see which foods cause your blood sugars to go up. The "tare" just means you can reset to zero after adding food to make recording easier without having to do subtraction.

9. Carbohydrates are carbohydrates. I'm not a believer in Low and High GI being important for a T2 just avoid the carbs altogether if you can.

10. Self testing is great providing you use the data and do something about it.
No your surgery probably won't fund it a sorry state of affairs but where we are today with the NHS.

11. HbA1c's are like a regular average check.. blood glucose readings before and after food show more detailed info.


That's my 2p on your post. If you have any more questions I can happily go into more detail but that just about sums up my 3 1/2 years of being here and how to put T2 into remission...

Good luck!