My personal hypothesis - T2 - Low insulin Diet

kokhongw said:

@CherryAA I think you have sum up the idea very neatly and rightly identified that a low insulin diet is the key. This low insulin diet can be low carb, high fats, very low calorie, vegan or fasting...because it is only in sufficiently lowering our insulin that we can restart the furnace of fats metabolism...

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I agree that in practice it really doesn't matter what the actual diet is - it simply has to be one that drives insulin down that you can stick to. - clearly the more you use any foods within that diet that require insulin to process then the longer it will take to drive down the overall quantum. I think that might be quite finely balanced n terms of intake of type of foods and insulin increase compared to food restriction and consequent insulin reduction.

I don't know if the ND diet guys are recording starting and ending insulin levels, or if its a test before and after bariatric surgery and follow up.

Here's a novel thought !

https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/guide/diabetes-colds#1

Perhaps its just an artifact of the common cold !

Maybe some people are lucky that their mom didn't get a cold during pregnancy , for the rest of us, she did and when she did that switched on the IR switch !

chalup said:

Hi @CherryAA I have been following this thread with a lot of interest as I know from repeated c-peptide tests that my fasting insulin is indeed very high even on very low carb (less than 20 grams per day for well over a year). I decided to try your method and have been doing it for 5 days now. Interesting results. My overall BG before my meal at 6 pm has been quite a bit higher than normal, mostly in the 6's as opposed to the low 5's. A couple hours after I eat it takes a sharp drop into the 4's and seems to stay there overnight until DP kicks in. On the other hand my months stalled weight has been dropping like crazy. 7 pounds in 5 days. I do not have access to a libre as they are not available in Canada but it sure would be interesting to see a more complete picture. I don't seem to have any problems with hunger although I do get hungry when 6 pm approaches. This is much easier than I expected.

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Hi @chalup

That's wonderful news! I deliberately posted the theory first, then the diet that should work along side it, before actually doing the diet because that way IF is works ( and it was a big IF) at least it won't be that it comes across that I made up something to fit my results. In the end there are three things I'm looking for a) lower weight b) Hba1c and c) lower fasting insulin. For me it seems it might do a) I won't know about b) or c)

for a while, but its looking promising so far.

To be honest I'm finding it more than " easier " , its really put the life and interest back in food and cooking because its so much easier to cook something nice at 1000 to 1500 calories than trying to spread it out.

As a matter of interest do you do waist measurements?
I measured my waist at the beginning and it was 94 cm, this morning 11 days later this morning it was 87cm.
I think being consistent and doing it properly is very hard, so my method is to pull the tape measure as tight as I can and recognise that that mean my goal would be 2-3 cm lower than the stated figures. The 7 cm difference is that method. I can see my shape having changed round my middle
Might be worth checking that out too.

Are you still sticking to 20g carbs or under ? I've found that even upto 40-50g carbs, the meal itself produces no spike and as you say a reduction within a couple of hours.

On the glucose front, I seem to be running bit higher now, I'm still not sure if that's an artifact of the protein overdose though. my overall readings are pretty similar to yours.

N=2 + 1 just beginning is getting interesting, would be lovely if a few more joined in, especially those who have suffered a weight stall like we have and tried just about everything to kick start it back in .

CherryAA said:

Here's a novel thought !

https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/guide/diabetes-colds#1

Perhaps its just an artifact of the common cold !

Maybe some people are lucky that their mom didn't get a cold during pregnancy , for the rest of us, she did and when she did that switched on the IR switch !

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Following that mind boggling thought a little further .
We know that we have now got babies being born fat. We know that gestational diabetes is on the increase.

I've never been pregnant (or at least not successfully - though now I think that too was my insulin levels) -

Does anyone actually test fasting insulin in pregnant mums?
If so are today's babies being born with higher insulin maybe that then is why they get fatter and diseases . So I look it up
Sure enough

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14723485

METHODS:
Ten 7 day old children each of low birth weight (< 2500 g, Group 1), normal birth weight (2500-3500 g, Group 2) and high birth weight (> 3500 g, Group 3) selected successively over a period of one month were studied. All children were normally delivered at full term and were not suffering from any major illness.

RESULTS:
Levels of total cholesterol, triglycerides, low density and high density lipoprotein cholesterol and glucose were not significantly different in the three groups. Mean fasting and post-glucose load insulin levels (microU/ml) were 2.78 +/- 2.23 and 3.28 +/- 2.04 in Group 1, 1.67 +/- 1.20 and 2.60 +/- 2.32 in Group 2 and 3.37 +/- 2.08 and 4.40 +/- 3.05 in Group 3 and fasting C-peptide levels (microg/ml) were 0.296 +/- 0.22, 0.208 +/- 0.09 and 0.327 +/- 0.23 respectively. There was no inter-group difference in insulin-glucose ratio, insulin levels adjusted for ponderal index and HOMA indices. A significant inverse quadratic correlation (U-shaped curve) of body weight with insulin (fasting and post-glucose) and C-peptide levels was observed (P < 0.05).

INTERPRETATION & CONCLUSION:
Both low and high birth weight term neonates have high fasting and post-glucose insulin levels. This U-shaped trend suggests influence of foetal undernutrition (environmental) as well as genetic factors in these children.

So here is the baldest possible result - in newborns before they have even been sullied by further food - the ONE easy test that correlated with poor feotal development in BOTH directions - Fasting Insulin NONE of the standard tests on the current lipid profile would pick up the problem everything else is normal at this stage .

Has someone tested the level of fasting insulin in mothers with obese babies ?
of course they have

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2681036/

And in this table

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2681036/table/T1/

lean mums = fasting insulin 11.8 +/- 5.6
obese mums = fasting insulin 26.0 +/- 14.6

placental insulin lean mums 7.2+/ 3.8
placental insulin obese mums 9.2 +/ 4.7

The other markers are nowhere near as significant.

What the hell does it take for the medical profession to realise that FASTING INSULIN IS THE PRIME TEST OF HEALTH.

chalup said:

I do measure my waist from time to time and have definitely lost some there. It is now 2 am here and I have dropped from 6.7 pre meal to 4.1. Thanksgiving here so turkey (dark meat), brussels, broccoli, and butter on it all so probably 10 grams of carbs or so. Was a nice meal with family and friends. My liver does not seem to be happy with the fasting and is keeping me higher than I would like pre-meal but if my insulin is lowering that could account for the higher numbers. Still they are in the normal range so I will continue on with this and hopefully keep losing weight. 55lbs gone and 70 to go.

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There have been numerous studies that show that its better to live with higher hba1C and lower insulin ( look up Jason Fung on that) so I wouldn't worry too much about the glucose for now as long as its not spiking much after the meal . That will be my approach. goodnight!

Day 11 of the Low Insulin Diet (starting weight 91.6 kg, current 84.6 kg )
Waist size 87 cm (starting 94 cm)

I only ate about 1000 calories yesterday I was full so I figured it was enough , I slept well, overnight average glucose 5.0 , tiny blip in morning liver dump to 6.4 but back to 5.8 in minutes.

This morning I woke up with the most incredible urge to go exercise - almost a compulsion that I simply HAD to do. So I went for a jog in the park for 30 minutes.

Today I will tackle the salmon LOL - funnily enough after the protein fest I really don't feel like eating salmon much but neither do I like wasting food - so hopefully the appetite will big enough to make it seem nice this afternoon! No particular hunger pangs as yet. still no morsel of food has passed my lips other than the daily mega meal ( and 1 tiny bit of carrot lol) and some spiced coffee.

Bluetit1802 said:

How much protein is there in your portion of salmon? Can you not just reduce the portion size if it takes you over your limit? Salmon is so good for us.

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Exactly what I am doing right this minute.
I went off salmon because I overfaced myself with 200 g of it.
I am now cooking a meal with about 100 g of it instead !

Bluetit1802 said:

I have 100g per meal, although I don't cook it .... I eat tinned red wild salmon on my lunch time salads. The tins contain 105g salmon, (21g protein)

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This morning I woke up with a ridiculous urge to run, so I succumbed and went jogging for half an hour. I then ended up very animated conversation whilst pacing the living room before realising that now I was starting to feel a bit faint. clearly only 1000 calories plus exercise is not mixy.
so I brought forward my meal.

I had my salmon ( about 120g) cooked with different types of buttered veggies, half an avocado and berries, yoghurt and cream About 1500 calories for the full day. Hopefully that's enough !

marathonmona said:

I’m currently munching my way through a second portion of the fatty bacon and aubergine lasagne (had first portion yesterday). @cherry.
Oh my. Filling up quickly. Haha.

Edited for clarity.

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It is lovely hop it does for you what it did for me

Kristin251 said:

Just an FYI. yesterday I was running a tad low and I had ONE BABYcarrot and I went up 14 (us) ! That's crazy. But it was away from all insulin and I don't make any so it was a clear picture for me. Great hypo treatment!!!

Now your carrot doesn't seem so crazy.

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yeah - this stuff is just bizarre .
As @Mr_Pot points out , - I should be stating "in my opinion" everywhere and he's right. It's nice when my meanderings prove useful to someone. I must admit I wondered when it happened to me if I should be mentioning it as a treatment for hypo's for people with different problems than T2 but I thought - nah that' just too weird to be credible!
It does reinforce the idea that at least some of these response are not volume related just type.