Prediabetes Neuropathy Question

[Grannie75]

I posted on the Pre Diabetes forum today to say that my recent blood test showed that my bloods have gone from 45 down to an amazing 38 in 3 months due to LCHF diet, however I have been suffering since last year ( before diagnosed ) with neuropathy. A burning and numbness in my toes and balls of my feet. Can this problem go away if I carry on losing weight and manage to keep my blood sugar in check or is it with me for life.
Even though I am over the moon with the result received today, my feet are still very sore and uncomfortable and showing no sign of getting better.
I just wondered if anyone else has managed to cure this problem or if there is something I should do to relieve the symptoms. I do use either cocoa butter cream or coconut oil on my feet daily.

 

[Art Of Flowers]

You can get neuropathy due to a vitamin B12 deficiency, so some people take this vitamin to help.

Another supplement which seems to help is Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA). There are lots of forum threads on this. ALA does reduce blood sugar levels, so you need to be aware of this and monitor your blood sugars to ensure you don't get a hypo. The "ideal" dosage seems to be 600 MG a day, but you might want to try a lower dosage initially in case you have side effects from it. There are two types of ALA - R-ALA (natural) and S-ALA (synthetic). The R-ALA is the variant which has all the benefits. Most ALA pills have a 50:50 split between the two types.

ALA has other benefits other than treating neuropathy. It is also useful to treat "brain fog" and increase cognitive ability. See http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/alphalipoic-acid

 

[Squire Fulwood]

I am not sure of the answer to this but I can say what I experience. If I am careless with my diet one thing I notice is my feet seem to start to turn into bird claws and ache a bit when I walk. If I am careful with my diet etc. then over a period of days the feet go flatter on the floor and are more comfortable.

My point is that some improvement seems possible if you keep your BS low. I suppose there is a point of no return but I wouldn't know where that was.

 

[Juicetin]

Hi, I'm also prediabetic with foot neuropathy, I have posted about it on here quite a bit recently. I am takIng ALA, b12 and b1 and initially this really helped my feet, however it is now back worse than ever and I'm struggling to even walk. I'm 45 years old.
I'm sure it may be possible to level out the neuropathy but in my case this hasn't happened.
I have the same as you, burning, pain and numbness.

 

[Freema]

I posted on the Pre Diabetes forum today to say that my recent blood test showed that my bloods have gone from 45 down to an amazing 38 in 3 months due to LCHF diet, however I have been suffering since last year ( before diagnosed ) with neuropathy. A burning and numbness in my toes and balls of my feet. Can this problem go away if I carry on losing weight and manage to keep my blood sugar in check or is it with me for life.
Even though I am over the moon with the result received today, my feet are still very sore and uncomfortable and showing no sign of getting better.
I just wondered if anyone else has managed to cure this problem or if there is something I should do to relieve the symptoms. I do use either cocoa butter cream or coconut oil on my feet daily.

maybe , some do reverse their neuropathy totally and some just a bit and some cant reverse it... but in any case strict control and blood glcuose down to normal levels is the best we can do and exercise as well and we must also remember that even more conditions can come along the way and the worse and the more uncontroled diabetes the higher the risk will probably be to add more and more condition on our way.. so yes do take control and keep it... you´ll get so many supportive people in this forum so stay here as well...

 

[DeejayR]

Hello, sorry to hear of your discomfort. I have tingly toes (as my GP calls it) and my feet always feel warm when they're flat on the ground in shoes, but this winter it's been a blessing really since the rest of me feels the cold, especially my hands. I haven't noticed any change in three years and don't expect to, as my blood sugar is fairly constant. I tried ALA two years ago without effect. Hope you find a remedy. We all seem to be different.

 

[Winnie53]

@Juicetin saddened to hear you're neuropathy is back again.

I'm assuming your glucose levels are well controlled, and that you regularly engage in some form of physical activity on a daily basis.

From what I've read over the last two years, 5 of the 8 B-vitamins are used to treat neuropathy. Have you thought about replacing the B1 and B12 with a high quality vitamin and mineral supplement and a B-complex in addition to the alpha lipoic acid?

Two other nutritional supplements that are important for us are vitamin D3 (which plays an important role in managing inflammation) and magnesium (which is required for almost 300 processes in the body; and I should add, most of us are deficient in this critical mineral).

I know I take a lot of nutritional supplements - (multi vitamin and mineral*; B-complex*, C*, D3*, K2 in MK-7 form, magnesium citrate, selenium citrate and zinc citrate for thyroid condition, CoQ10, alpha lipoic acid, fish oil and cod liver oil) - but I have inflammatory bowel disease and non-celiac gluten sensitivity which affects absorption of nutrients. Even though I'm in remission 99% of the time, I have taken a B-complex most of my adult life because when I don't, I have symptoms.

*These supplements are made from whole foods and include enzymes.

Nutrients are synergistic, so perhaps your targeted supplement strategy worked until another needed nutrient became depleted? I don't know.

Other possibilities are a build up of one or more heavy metals or persistant organic pollutants. Don't know. The research is showing that type 2 diabetes correlates more strongly with persistent organic pollutants than with weight.

I'd try every nutritional strategy available to me before accepting that a condition I have is genetically driven, and not reversible. And I say that with the understanding that I have one or more genetically driven conditions, specifically the IBD, perhaps the non-celiac gluten sensitivity (NCGS) too. At this point, a lot is known about celiac disease, but not so much about NCGS.

 

[Winnie53]

For anyone who has foot and ankle swelling, particularly during the summer months, I took pantothenic acid (vitamin B5) for a couple of months in addition to the above listed supplements. I believe I took 500 mg a day. It was a game changer for me. This is a condition I had for 10 years.

This article is interesting, in part because it speaks to how nutrients work synergistically with other nutrients... http://www.progressivehealth.com/5-vitamins-to-reduce-fluid-retention.htm

 

[scottw]

I've been T1D for 37 yrs. Front of feet and toes have less feeling then they used to. Occasional/Rare sharp pains in balls of feet. 6.25 A1c's and exercise consistently. Is this neuropathy? Endo says when you get it, it doesn't go away? I knew an elderly woman (deceased) who wasn't diabetic but suffered excruciating pain all the time in her feet. MD's told her she had peripheral neuropathy.

 

[Winnie53]

Leaving for the day but want to park this article here that discusses vitamin B6 toxicity which can also cause peripheral neuropathy. Lots to interesting comments too... https://www.peoplespharmacy.com/2010/11/21/excess-vitamin-caused-neuropathy/ This happened to an acquaintance recently.

 

[Winnie53]

I've been T1D for 37 yrs. Front of feet and toes have less feeling then they used to. Occasional/Rare sharp pains in balls of feet. 6.25 A1c's and exercise consistently. Is this neuropathy? Endo says when you get it, it doesn't go away? I knew an elderly woman (deceased) who wasn't diabetic but suffered excruciating pain all the time in her feet. MD's told her she had peripheral neuropathy.

Lots of helpful information here. Suggest you read and take notes... http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/help-in-dealing-with-neuropathy.74653/

 

[Grannie75]

Thank you all for answering, there are so many useful hints and suggestions. I think maybe I will have a chat with my GP as she is very up to date on all things diabetic and if she doesn't come up with any ideas then I will look at the vitamin advice given in the posts above.
I think it would be sensible to speak with her rather than try vitamins by guesswork, however I have them to try if no other help is forthcoming, as I would much rather treat the problem than hide it with painkillers if at all possible.
Your help and answers are much appreciated

 

[Juicetin]

Hi Winnie yes my euphoria was short lived, I am suffering again. I am aware of the toxicity of b6 so am careful with that.
I am taking a good quality multi vit which has biotin, chromium, magnesium etc etc.
I'm also having a good d3 which a lot of us are deficient in.
I wonder if it's just a case of my body getting used to the supplements, kind of becoming immune to them.
I don't know.
I experiment with higher levels of ALA but to no effect.
I've changed manufacturers on some of them too, also to no avail.
I'm a sensible chap and am keeping a lid on my blood sugar so I think perhaps it's just the natural progression of neuropathy taking place. That saddens me a great deal. I was once a great hill walker and orienteer...no more...I struggled to walk to the shops today.
I played baseball and softball for 30 years and have just had to hang up my boots.
Last Friday I went to a bar with a friend and had to stand on one leg all night like a pelican!
Does anyone know if those liquid insoles are any good?

 

[Winnie53]

@Juicetin I'm learning as I go. My very poor and over simplified understanding is that heavy metals and persistent organic pollutants fill up the cell's receptor sites and prevent the nutrients from entering. A possible explanation? Don't know.

Oh wow. I just checked Amazon and the book I've been waiting on since last year that explains all this is out. It released in February. This is the book I'm reading next...
https://www.amazon.com/Toxin-Soluti...489216133&sr=1-1&keywords=joseph+pizzorno+and

If I come across anything that I think will be helpful, I'll post it on the Neuropathy topic. All I can say for now is that Pizzorno began to question years ago why some people don't fully respond to nutritional treatment strategies. Finding the answers to that question led to the writing of his most recent book. To learn more, take a listen to this interview done last month - (EDIT: For those who like digging into the details, this is a great interview, and for more practical "how to's" start at minute 42:00 and watch the last 20 minutes; see my post below for a less technical interview with Joseph Pizzono, N.D.)...

For now, perhaps adding more magnesium could help because it's so important. My multi provides only 43 mg or 11% of what the body needs - (I take 450 mg/day).

Another thought is perhaps there's an irritant driving the problem. Gluten sensitivity comes to mind. One way to find out is to give up gluten containing foods - (wheat, rye, barley, and oats) - for a month, and that includes gluten hidden in processed foods, condiments, etc., and see what happens.

I can't imagine what it would feel like to give up playing baseball and softball after 30 years. I'm holding out hope that with time and perseverance, you'll find the elusive answers to this challenge and share it with us here.

@Grannie75 I read all your posts this morning. I think you're on the right track. Much can be done with eating the right foods and taking nutritional supplements as needed. And you're right, medications reduce symptoms, but don't address the root problem. Hoping you're feeling a lot better soon. You've made a tremendous amount of progress in a short period of time.

 

[Winnie53]

I realize few people reading this want to learn about "toxic load" or "how to detox toxin's from their body". Particularly those who live in the UK, not the USA or Canada. Following a low carbohydrate ketogenic diet is hard enough, particularly in the beginning. But for those LIKE ME who have made lots of progress but are battling multiple chronic diseases or conditions and/or complications that aren't resolving, learning what Pizzorno says and implementing all or some of his strategies limit intake of toxins and remove them safely likely will be a game changer.

This morning I listened to two NEW Pizzono interviews, the one I posted above earlier and this one below which is more easily understood and a lot less technical. In it, he touches briefly on how toxins lead to the development of type 2 diabetes and he overviews his 9-week detox protocol, also he includes three interesting "patient success" stories...

In the Bulletproof interview that I posted my earlier post above, he also talks about the importance of increasing glutathione levels by supplementing with N-Acetyl-Cysteine (NAC), improving mitochondrial functioning with CoQ10 and alpha lipoic acid, and he mentions one other supplement that I can't understand. (Will dig that information out of the book and post it here next week when I have the book in hand).

BUT prior to taking these supplements, it's important to prepare the body properly for doing the detox so we're not reabsorbing them and doing more damage.

An example of one of the preparation steps is to greatly increase plant based fiber intake which binds with the released toxins and removes them from the body (which means if you're fiber intake is very low or if you are constipated, you have some preparation that you need to do prior to starting a detox protocol).

For those of you who are physically active and also engage in strength training, good for you because that's important too. One strength training session a week is all that's needed in addition to regular physical activity throughout the week.

I need to listen to these lectures a couple more times and dig into the book before sharing more. I encourage you to at minimum watch the shorter, more easily understood interview in this post, then the Bulletproof interview in my previous post if interested in additional details.

 

[Winnie53]

I've been reading about glutathione off and on all day on this website by clicking on the topics on the left side of the screen. Lots of useful and applicable information here... http://www.immunehealthscience.com/

The link is to the home page where you can learn about the couple who collected the information for the website. I like the design because it allows me to pick and choose what I want to learn first, second, third, etc.

 

[CarbsRok]

Please do remember that neuropathy can be caused by loads of different conditions, with you numbers I would be asking questions about why you have neuropathy and also asking for a referral to a neurologist so an action plan can be put in place to help you. GP's tend to think oh s/he's diabetic so it's whatever because s/he has diabetes.

My Mother has neuropathy and she doesn't have diabetes, hers was caused by chemo nearly 40 years ago it's a known side effect now for the long time survivors.
So start asking questions and expect answers, don't be fobbed off.

 

[Angelofthemarches]

I realize few people reading this want to learn about "toxic load" or "how to detox toxin's from their body". Particularly those who live in the UK, not the USA or Canada. Following a low carbohydrate ketogenic diet is hard enough, particularly in the beginning. But for those LIKE ME who have made lots of progress but are battling multiple chronic diseases or conditions and/or complications that aren't resolving, learning what Pizzorno says and implementing all or some of his strategies limit intake of toxins and remove them safely likely will be a game changer.

This morning I listened to two NEW Pizzono interviews, the one I posted above earlier and this one below which is more easily understood and a lot less technical. In it, he touches briefly on how toxins lead to the development of type 2 diabetes and he overviews his 9-week detox protocol, also he includes three interesting "patient success" stories...

In the Bulletproof interview that I posted my earlier post above, he also talks about the importance of increasing glutathione levels by supplementing with N-Acetyl-Cysteine (NAC), improving mitochondrial functioning with CoQ10 and alpha lipoic acid, and he mentions one other supplement that I can't understand. (Will dig that information out of the book and post it here next week when I have the book in hand).

BUT prior to taking these supplements, it's important to prepare the body properly for doing the detox so we're not reabsorbing them and doing more damage.

An example of one of the preparation steps is to greatly increase plant based fiber intake which binds with the released toxins and removes them from the body (which means if you're fiber intake is very low or if you are constipated, you have some preparation that you need to do prior to starting a detox protocol).

For those of you who are physically active and also engage in strength training, good for you because that's important too. One strength training session a week is all that's needed in addition to regular physical activity throughout the week.

I need to listen to these lectures a couple more times and dig into the book before sharing more. I encourage you to at minimum watch the shorter, more easily understood interview in this post, then the Bulletproof interview in my previous post if interested in additional details.

This was fascinating, thankyou!

 

[Winnie53]

Angelofthemarch, I've wanted to learn how to safely detox the body for more than a year now, but have waited until the release of this book because I'd learned from two experts, Joseph Pizzorno and Datis Kharrazian, that if done without preparing the body first and then slowly over a longer period of time, the body can become overwhelmed and the toxins can be reabsorbed and cause further damage. Not what I want.

After I get a look at the book, I'll start a new topic. There are a number of other recent talks by Pizzorno too. Here's another one I found last night for health practitioners...

My husband and I watched the interviews together last night and both believe this is what I need to do next for my health. I'm going to read the book and follow the protocol, in part because I only recently began eating organic foods, but also because I had significant exposures to pesticides as a child growing up in the south. In the 60's it was common to contract with pest control companies to spray pesticides on carpet for fleas monthly, and for roaches less frequently though I don't know if that was done in the house or under the house. I'd walk barefoot on the carpet afterward which horrifies me now. Thanks for watching the interviews and for commenting here.

------

I did more searches this morning and came across more information about peripheral neuropathy that surprised me.

One of the things that I've been taught repeatedly is if a chronic condition does not respond to treatment over time to consider the possibility of gluten sensitivity. Here's a list of potential causes of peripheral neuropathies with clickable links from the University of Chicago here in the USA...

http://peripheralneuropathycenter.uchicago.edu/learnaboutpn/typesofpn/index.shtml

I did not know that celiac disease could be a cause of neuropathy. If that's the case, I assume that non-celiac gluten sensitivity can be a cause too. Peter Osborne who is a leading health practitioner specialized in treating conditions cause by gluten sensitivity here in the USA writes about it too...

https://www.glutenfreesociety.org/gluten-sensitivity-a-common-cause-of-peripheral-neuropathy/

From that article, I found this interesting...

Medical Study Identifies Peripheral Neuropathy Resolves in Many With Gluten Sensitivity
The following is a direct quote from the research:

Gluten sensitivity can engender neurologic dysfunction, one of the two commonest presentations being peripheral neuropathy.

Out of a total of 409 patients with different types of peripheral neuropathies, 53 (13%) had clinical and neurophysiologic evidence of sensory ganglionopathy. Out of these 53 patients, 17 (32%) had serologic evidence of gluten sensitivity. The mean age of those with gluten sensitivity was 67 years and the mean age at onset was 58 years. Seven of those with serologic evidence of gluten sensitivity had enteropathy on biopsy. Fifteen patients went on a gluten-free diet, resulting in stabilization of the neuropathy in 11. The remaining 4 had poor adherence to the diet and progressed, as did the 2 patients who did not opt for dietary treatment. Autopsy tissue from 3 patients demonstrated inflammation in the dorsal root ganglia with degeneration of the posterior columns of the spinal cord.

Sensory ganglionopathy can be a manifestation of gluten sensitivity and may respond to a strict gluten-free diet.

Read more at https://www.glutenfreesociety.org/g...of-peripheral-neuropathy/#CH7gSjKKReWSuwxm.99

But there's a problem, if celiac disease or non-celiac gluten sensitivity is present, testing often fails to identify it until the condition has caused significantly more damage. I know this personally because I belong to a gluten-free group and I've seen this happen to people over and over again. The best "test" for gluten sensitivity is a gluten free diet for a minimum of 1 month, though based on readings I've done this morning, 3 months would be better.

Another cause that surprised me was low iron anemia - (which given the age of this study likely was caused by celiac disease or non-celiac gluten sensitivity; I have the latter and had low iron levels when I was diagnosed with non-celiac gluten sensitivity in 2011. I also bordered on having anemia off and on as a child)...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12200980

 

[Winnie53]

You can get neuropathy due to a vitamin B12 deficiency, so some people take this vitamin to help.

Another supplement which seems to help is Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA). There are lots of forum threads on this. ALA does reduce blood sugar levels, so you need to be aware of this and monitor your blood sugars to ensure you don't get a hypo. The "ideal" dosage seems to be 600 MG a day, but you might want to try a lower dosage initially in case you have side effects from it. There are two types of ALA - R-ALA (natural) and S-ALA (synthetic). The R-ALA is the variant which has all the benefits. Most ALA pills have a 50:50 split between the two types.

ALA has other benefits other than treating neuropathy. It is also useful to treat "brain fog" and increase cognitive ability. See http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/alphalipoic-acid

The Diabetes Summit starts on March 20th. Go here to register for this free event... http://www.thediabetessummit.com/ John Hayes, M.D. who is featured in the above YouTube video will be interviewed...

ASSESSMENT AND SOLUTIONS FOR PERIPHERAL NEUROPATHY

- Understanding the various types of neuropathy
- Learning to properly assess the feet for neurological health
- Natural solutions to address and eliminate neuropathy

I don't know anything about this health practitioner but interested in hearing what he has too say. We won't know which day he's presenting on until the summit starts. Oops, looks like he's presenting on Day 1 which would be March 20th... http://drmowll.com/ds17schedule You must register to attend, preferably before 20th so you don't miss the first day. Again, it's free.