New, confused and hoping to learn!

Hello @Kathy from England and Welcome to the Forum .
Tagging @daisy1 who will provide you with some basic information that all new members receive on here.

I am on an LCHF diet, ( generally under 30-40g carbs) .At that level I've noticed that my blood sugars are not artoculalry affected by what I eat. My fasting number in the morning is between 4.5 and 6.5 and depends on how late I ate the night before. That number increases by around 3-4 mmol regardless of what I eat for the low carb breakfast. Eating the breakfast stops it continuing to rise, but in practice whether I eat or not, it stays high ish until lunch time before it then drops back into the 5's and 6/s for the rest of the day with maybe a 1-2 mmol increase after my low carb lunch and evening meals.

So for me , blood sugars above normal are all a function of the morning liver dump not the food . Maybe that will reduce once additional weight comes off.

@Kathy from England

Hello Kathy and welcome to the Forum Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope that you will find it useful. It gives a lot of advice on diet and levels and includes a link to the free Low Carb Program. Ask as many questions as you like and someone will be able to help.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 147,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a free 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.

Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. They're all free.

• Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why
• Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.

Kathy from England said:

1. Overnight my reading was 4.9, by 8am it was 5.9 (true fasting reading, high for me) - and before I ate an hour later it read at 8.2!! So it climbed from 4.9 50 8.2 in 5 hours yet I'd not eaten? Also, I rarely get readings above 7.7 at any time of day.

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Hi @Kathy from England That could be due to 'Dawn Phenomenon' where your liver dumps glucose into your blood stream as you wake to give you a boost as you get going, or if there isn't enough glucose in your blood after not eating for a few hours.
It's quite normal, and non-diabetics get it too.
Some people find that a small protein snack, like a few nuts or small piece of cheese before you go to bed blocks it. Or eating something for breakfast, or coffee with cream when you get up can stop it.

Hi and welcome!

Can I just clarify - when you say 'Freestyle disc system' do you mean the Freestyle Libre?
And have you cross checked any of your 'disc' readings with finger prick tests to see if the disc is reading high or low?

Kathy from England said:

1. Overnight my reading was 4.9, by 8am it was 5.9 (true fasting reading, high for me) - and before I ate an hour later it read at 8.2!! So it climbed from 4.9 50 8.2 in 5 hours yet I'd not eaten? Also, I rarely get readings above 7.7 at any time of day.

2. I are a cooked meal around 1pm. Two hours later my reading was 3.8. And I was really hungry. This is something that I've noticed, just a couple of hours after eating a main meal I am hungry again. Is this a sign of pre diabetes?

The rest of my readings so far (I'm on Day 2) have been normal - so long as the meter is reasonably accurate that is. I think that whether I'm now pre-diabetic or not, I need to sort myself out, lose some weight and watch those carbs.

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1. If you don't eat your liver will supply glucose. It is of mild concern that it got as high as 8.2 and this might indicate that you are right to be concerned about diabetes.

2. Really hungry can be a symptom of a meal high in carbohydrates. It is not a symptom of pre-diabetes as far as I know. Meals containing higher quantities of fat should stave off the feeling of hunger. It is worth testing this out to see if it works.

Hello and welcome!

If you're concerned about your readings, I would book an appointment with your GP

Kathy from England said:

Prem51,
I've heard of the 'Dawn Phenomenon' but didn't realise that non-diabetics get it too.

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Everybody gets it since it is the body's way of making sure that you don't run out of glucose. I suppose it is more correctly called a liver dump since it can happen any time you haven't eaten for a while.

Kathy from England said:

Oh I will get this checked out. I've had yearly checks for years, because I've asked for them. My last one was normal, and inbetween I check now and again with my husband's finger strips, which have always been normal too.

As he's using the Freestyle Libre I thought I'd try wearing one to give me a better insight to what's happening. I'm trying to understand what's going on, not replace medical advice. Whether I'm pre-diabetic or not, I do need to lose weight and improve my diet after last year.

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welcome Kathy from England

My suggestion try to eat a breakfast without carbs Then the dawn phenomenon will stop and the food will not add further to raising blood glucose

Kathy from England said:

CherryAA, congratulations on the weight loss so far!
Thanks for sharing what happens with you. I'm on Day 3 and my pattern seems to be similar, in that it's normal on waking then soon rises to either pre-diabetic or diabetic level. After I eat it drops to a normal level and then remains

Prem51,
I've heard of the 'Dawn Phenomenon' but didn't realise that non-diabetics get it too. I'll try a small protein snack and see if it helps.

Hi Brunneria, yes it is the Freestyle Libre. No, I haven't checked with a finger prick test yet. I need to do so, but I'll have to borrow my husband's kit to do that.

Thanks everyone, especially Daisy with the excellent information.

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Hi Kathy,

I find that it still drops to about the same place even without the food, though it may take a bit longer to do it. I also find if I put up with that and then try to eat just the one meal round 4.00pm, then even though the DP phenomena still happens the longer I can keep up the not eating much the lower the actual peak from the liver dump is the following day, I'm trying to bring my average sugars down using the libre freestyle and also re-kick start slimming again, I've had very similar patterns three times now - i.e. morning highs of 10, then 9 , then 8 ish on three successive days following skipping the first breakfast and next two and only having a bone broth for lunch. Even if I am not eating, still record a 1 carb meal for breakfast, that way freestyle still reports what my morning high was automatically.

Kathy from England said:

Hi, here is my background.

I have a strong family history of Diabetes and so have asked for yearly checks from the GP. I was creeping towards pre-diabetes in 2003 but have managed (somehow!) to remain within normal levels since. The last year has been very stressful and my diet has been poor (lots of snacks and hurried meals). I'm overweight and I know I'm not doing myself any favours. I also skipped my yearly test.

My husband is diabetic and I test myself from time to time using his finger strips. My readings are ok. He is using the FreeStyle disc system at the moment, and I thought that if I tried one myself it would give me more detailed information.

I know that any meter can be slightly inaccurate, and the disc system may read lower than the finger test. But I'm confused by two things.

1. Overnight my reading was 4.9, by 8am it was 5.9 (true fasting reading, high for me) - and before I ate an hour later it read at 8.2!! So it climbed from 4.9 50 8.2 in 5 hours yet I'd not eaten? Also, I rarely get readings above 7.7 at any time of day.

2. I are a cooked meal around 1pm. Two hours later my reading was 3.8. And I was really hungry. This is something that I've noticed, just a couple of hours after eating a main meal I am hungry again. Is this a sign of pre diabetes?

The rest of my readings so far (I'm on Day 2) have been normal - so long as the meter is reasonably accurate that is. I think that whether I'm now pre-diabetic or not, I need to sort myself out, lose some weight and watch those carbs.

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I'm not diabetic or a doctor so can't comment on that side, but you're absolutely right. Particularly considering your family history, taking preventive care at this stage is just about the best thing you could do. Lose some weight, get some more exercise, eat well and drop the sugar and starch.

You'll feel better, and so will your husband if you include him in your low carb eating plan. But you don't say if he's T1 or T2. Either way, make sure his team know what's going on.

Kathy from England said:

Last night I compared the Freestyle Libre with a finger prick over several hours. These are the results.

1. Freestyle Libre 4.6
Finger prick 5.3

2. Freestyle Libre 8.6
Finger prick 8.6

3. Freestyle Libre 6.8
Finger prick 7.5
(2 hours after main meal)

4. Freestyle Libre 6.5
Finger prick 7.3
Finger prick 6.9
(Tested 2 fingers one immediately after the other)

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Hi @Kathy from England Which meter did you use for the finger prick test?

Kathy from England said:

I had the results of my HbA1c today. It's 42, which puts me as prediabetic. I'm not surprised. My own readings show the main problem to be impaired glucose tolerance.

I know I have to lose weight, exercise more and reduce the cards. Now I just have to do it!

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It is only just pre-diabetic, so you should manage to get those levels down easily enough if you commit yourself to a good and sustainable way of low carb eating. Do you mean impaired fasting glucose?