New evidence shows it's a waste of time.

[Lobsang Tsultim]

Average age of those who had died with COVID-19 - Office for National Statistics

Governments own figures.
My mistake i was 2 years out.

Still doesn't mean what you think it means. For example, my ex-wife died at the beginning of January.

She died with Covid 19. It wasn't what killed her.

She was in hospital for three months, where she was exposed to Covid. Her case was very mild, she had a slightly sore throat, and that was it. If she hadn't been in hospital, it probably wouldn't even have been picked up. Still, Covid was listed on the death certificate since she did have it at the time of death.

 

[bulkbiker]

You think they are hiding information surrounding the vaccine directed by……

The people who were coercing people to get jabbed...

As Hancock's messages show they were determined to stab the entire population using fear as the main driver no matter what the consequences were.

I think that over time we'll see far more problems emerging with the jabs.. the "safe and effective" mantra will be shown to be the biggest lie ever used on the general population.

 

[HSSS]

The people who were coercing people to get jabbed...

As Hancock's messages show they were determined to stab the entire population using fear as the main driver no matter what the consequences were.

I think that over time we'll see far more problems emerging with the jabs.. the "safe and effective" mantra will be shown to be the biggest lie ever used on the general population.

So you believe the government (who I also think made huge mistakes just probably not always the same ones you do) are controlling the media about the vaccines. If so, is it so far fetched they are doing the same about covid, long covid, long term complications from the virus itself? They just want everything associated with covid to go away silently.

As you say time will tell the long term issues with the virus and the vaccine, and there are likely some for both (as all medications can have negative side effects) - although I know where I think the significant majority will be. It’s going to be hard to find decent numbers of people that have only had one or other though to identify which is causing what issues as a significant majority have had both.

 

[Jo_the_boat]

Or maybe the media are simply reporting what they are told to report..?

Or paid ('rewarded') to report.

 

[Jo_the_boat]

So you believe the government (who I also think made huge mistakes just probably not always the same ones you do) are controlling the media about the vaccines. If so, is it so far fetched they are doing the same about covid, long covid, long term complications from the virus itself? They just want everything associated with covid to go away silently.

As you say time will tell the long term issues with the virus and the vaccine, and there are likely some for both (as all medications can have negative side effects) - although I know where I think the significant majority will be. It’s going to be hard to find decent numbers of people that have only had one or other though to identify which is causing what issues as a significant majority have had both.

With respect, at least you acknowledge both sides of the debate. But may I point out:
Debate was something that wasn't allowed on diabetes.co.uk a couple of years ago, nor indeed was it allowed on any public site, channel, (including Facebook etc. etc.) without the poste being banned or at the very least, like me, having posts pulled, and in other places being called all the names under the sun. Because the vast majority of the population had been scared witless by a one-sided mantra. No single mainstream media outlet actually debated the biggest health-related intervention in history. In addition, there was an alternative (and largely correct) viewpoint early on (2020), just nobody was allowed to hear it, or if they did, it was bebunked.

I'm sure we've all heard of the Trusted News Initiative, a world-wide news conglomerate, conceived and founded by our own 'state' broadcaster, the BBC (that WE pay for). The TNI ensured one message came over, and one only. A message that was corrupt and wrong. We were looked in the eye by national premiers, health leaders, celebrities and Main Stream Media and lied to.

Would you have taken the jab if we had known:
It didn't prevent infection
It didn't prevent transmission
It causes an adverse reaction in 1 in 800. (Other drugs were immediately withdrawn with a 1 in 10,000 reaction. WHY?). Our (UK) National Yellow card reporting system, last time I looked there were 177,000 adverse reactions reported regarding the Pfizer jab, both by individuals and doctors on their behalf. Some of them fatalities. It is estimated that these yellow card entries are under-reported by a factor of 10.
Young people's chance of dying of covid was infinitesimal. Yet we still jabbed them, it's still recommended on the NHS website as far as I know. This really is criminal.
Pfizer's tests lasted a few months till they realized they weren't getting the results they hoped for and the 'control' arm of the 'victims' were given the jab, therefore invalidating the trial.
Then the vaccine manufacturers were given indemnity against prosecution f things went wrong. Surely we should have smelled a rat there!

Enough......

 

[Lobsang Tsultim]

I'm sure we've all heard of the Trusted News Initiative, a world-wide news conglomerate, conceived and founded by our own 'state' broadcaster, the BBC (that WE pay for). The TNI ensured one message came over, and one only. A message that was corrupt and wrong. We were looked in the eye by national premiers, health leaders, celebrities and Main Stream Media and lied to.


I’m sorry but I ignore any theories that rely on grand conspiracies to explain evidence or lack of evidence.

 

[bulkbiker]

I'm sure we've all heard of the Trusted News Initiative, a world-wide news conglomerate, conceived and founded by our own 'state' broadcaster, the BBC (that WE pay for). The TNI ensured one message came over, and one only. A message that was corrupt and wrong. We were looked in the eye by national premiers, health leaders, celebrities and Main Stream Media and lied to.


I’m sorry but I ignore any theories that rely on grand conspiracies to explain evidence or lack of evidence.

Then you should read the Ofcom mandates for covid reporting that specifically ban anything that goes against the government narrative. Although oddly they appear to have disappeared from their website... knock me down with a feather..

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/policies-and-guidelines/coronavirus-information

 

[Lobsang Tsultim]

Strange how you think all but the “official” narrative was silenced, and yet you still managed to find out “the truth” just by spending a few minutes on the internet. If that were true then there’s nothing to worry about because the shadow government / lizards / new world order / bankers / whatever-group-you‘ve-got-a-problem-with-this-week are inept and powerless anyway.

Anyway, it seems pointless to spar since we are convinced of our respective positions. I won’t comment on this again, got a life to live.

 

[bulkbiker]

trange how you think all but the “official” narrative was silenced,

i don't 'think" it was I know it was.

And all the doctors and scientists that refused to follow the narrative who were denigrated by the media.

 

[Jo_the_boat]

I'm sure we've all heard of the Trusted News Initiative, a world-wide news conglomerate, conceived and founded by our own 'state' broadcaster, the BBC (that WE pay for). The TNI ensured one message came over, and one only. A message that was corrupt and wrong. We were looked in the eye by national premiers, health leaders, celebrities and Main Stream Media and lied to.


I’m sorry but I ignore any theories that rely on grand conspiracies to explain evidence or lack of evidence.

You're quite right, grand conspiracy indeed.
I'm glad someone else has recognized and refutes the huge conspiracy that was our response to Covid. Great to hear.
Please keep spreading the message, if not for our sake (if like me, you are coming towards the end of your time), then for the sake of our children and grandchildren.
We must never let this horror happen again.

 

[Jo_the_boat]

Strange how you think all but the “official” narrative was silenced, and yet you still managed to find out “the truth” just by spending a few minutes on the internet. If that were true then there’s nothing to worry about because the shadow government / lizards / new world order / bankers / whatever-group-you‘ve-got-a-problem-with-this-week are inept and powerless anyway.

Anyway, it seems pointless to spar since we are convinced of our respective positions. I won’t comment on this again, got a life to live.

You've got a life to live eh? Unlike others, who have perished due to our abject handling of the pandemic.
Hundreds upon hundreds in care homes for example.
This is written by a GP who cared for the elderly in care homes. No conspiracy - front line and as good as helpless to offer the care he wanted. Article here
He was also ordered to record deaths as Covid deaths, despite the fact that some people were way over 80 and suffering from all manner of illnesses and would have died anyway.

And, it's not merely 'a few' minutes looking on the internet. Some people have had their careers ruined for speaking out.
Doctors have been threatened by the GMC (General Medical Council) for even questioning the narrative.
Here by the same GP

By all means live your life, but please allow me to make other people aware of an alternative narrative,
It is a fundamental right that we should ALL be able to make our own decisions about ourselves and our families health, With one side of the story we simply can't do that.

 

[HSSS]

Debate was something that wasn't allowed on diabetes.co.uk a couple of years ago, nor indeed was it allowed on any public site, channel, (including Facebook etc. etc.)

Odd that I recall many a debate in here and on FB then…….

A message that was corrupt and wrong.

You may consider the messaging wrong. That doesn’t mean everyone does. It’s an opinion not a fact (at this time)

Would you have taken the jab if we had known:
It didn't prevent infection
It didn't prevent transmission
It causes an adverse reaction in 1 in 800. (Other drugs were immediately withdrawn with a 1 in 10,000 reaction. WHY?). Our (UK) National Yellow card reporting system, last time I looked there were 177,000 adverse reactions reported regarding the Pfizer jab, both by individuals and doctors on their behalf. Some of them fatalities. It is estimated that these yellow card entries are under-reported by a factor of 10.
Young people's chance of dying of covid was infinitesimal. Yet we still jabbed them, it's still recommended on the NHS website as far as I know.

I suspect any further debate is pointless but I could not ignore your statements above that are simply not true in the black and white way you portray them.

It did prevent infections -just not all of them
It did prevent transmission - just not all of it and if you didn’t catch it (see above) you couldn’t spread it at all
It still isn’t agreed what the level of adverse reaction is and many of these reports include very minor and short term effects as well as serious and worrying ones so the impression is distorted as much bigger than it is. WHICH effects matter not just raw numbers.
The yellow card system is potential reactions reported by both drs and laypeople not confirmed reactions. Again a distortion to not identify the difference when people are quick to want something to blame for their ‘event’ no matter how tenuous.
Whilst statistically you are right about low risk to young people it still happens when the numbers are large enough and many chose to be vaccinated to avoid/limit long term harm that wasn’t death. Death is not the only bad outcome of covid. They also choose to be vaccinated to help protect more vulnerable family members.

So yes I would have still be vaccinated knowing everything I know now and will (unless evidence or circumstances change) continue to be vaccinated or at the very least seriously consider it in future.

With respect, at least you acknowledge both sides of the debate.

With respect it’s a shame you don’t acknowledge the one sidedness and distortion of evidence that is also happening on your side of the debate. Yes there were/are vaccine issues that should be investigated. 100%. But they must be balanced against the very real risks that did and do exist from the virus. That seems to be forgotten in the ignorant comparison that it’s “only a cold”.

 

[Jo_the_boat]

Odd that I recall many a debate in here and on FB then…….


You may consider the messaging wrong. That doesn’t mean everyone does. It’s an opinion not a fact (at this time)


I suspect any further debate is pointless but I could not ignore your statements above that are simply not true in the black and white way you portray them.

It did prevent infections -just not all of them
It did prevent transmission - just not all of it and if you didn’t catch it (see above) you couldn’t spread it at all
It still isn’t agreed what the level of adverse reaction is and many of these reports include very minor and short term effects as well as serious and worrying ones so the impression is distorted as much bigger than it is. WHICH effects matter not just raw numbers.
The yellow card system is potential reactions reported by both drs and laypeople not confirmed reactions. Again a distortion to not identify the difference when people are quick to want something to blame for their ‘event’ no matter how tenuous.
Whilst statistically you are right about low risk to young people it still happens when the numbers are large enough and many chose to be vaccinated to avoid/limit long term harm that wasn’t death. Death is not the only bad outcome of covid. They also choose to be vaccinated to help protect more vulnerable family members.

So yes I would have still be vaccinated knowing everything I know now and will (unless evidence or circumstances change) continue to be vaccinated or at the very least seriously consider it in future.

With respect it’s a shame you don’t acknowledge the one sidedness and distortion of evidence that is also happening on your side of the debate. Yes there were/are vaccine issues that should be investigated. 100%. But they must be balanced against the very real risks that did and do exist from the virus. That seems to be forgotten in the ignorant comparison that it’s “only a cold”.

Ahhh. You work in the pharmaceutical industry! I claim my prize.

I could refute every comment you have made, but it would be a waste of effort. I felt really, really embarrassed when I realized I'd been duped into being vaccinated even though I had more than an inkling that things were seriously awry.

We have heard one side of the debate for 3 years but it's a relief for so many people like me to be able to speak their minds without being shut down or sworn at. Thank you for that at least.

Smoking was OK - till it wasn't.
High carb low fat was OK - till it wasn't.
Untested mRNA vaccines are not OK. Natural immunity is OK.
Lockdowns are not OK.

Smoking, High carb / low fat and untested mRNA technology all have one thing in common. They were trumpeted and backed by huge money - the latter two still are.

Finally, before I go for a walk in the snow I think the two things that have distressed me most are:
1. Medical treatment during the vaccine period was no longer individual. It was an unproven one solution fits all. Throughout, natural immunity has been acknowledged to be far superior to vaccinated. Better efficacy and longer lasting. Despite this everyone was injected with the same thing, regardless of whether they'd had Covid and thus had natural immunity. That is utterly crazy. Each injection cost the country about £20 I think. Would it not have been better to set up a testing programme to see if people actually already had antibodies via natural immunity?
2. Freedom of choice. We were not given all the facts - nowhere near. We were manipulated and in effect blackmailed. Basically the only people who refused the jab were those that could afford it. No jab - no job. No jab - no holiday. No jab - no meal out.

Another very enlightening interview here by UK trained doctor working in America.

 

[HSSS]

Ahhh. You work in the pharmaceutical industry! I claim my prize.

I could refute every comment you have made, but it would be a waste of effort. I felt really, really embarrassed when I realized I'd been duped into being vaccinated even though I had more than an inkling that things were seriously awry.

We have heard one side of the debate for 3 years but it's a relief for so many people like me to be able to speak their minds without being shut down or sworn at. Thank you for that at least.

Smoking was OK - till it wasn't.
High carb low fat was OK - till it wasn't.
Untested mRNA vaccines are not OK. Natural immunity is OK.
Lockdowns are not OK.

Smoking, High carb / low fat and untested mRNA technology all have one thing in common. They were trumpeted and backed by huge money.

I am not sure if it was sarcasm you are being serious but I do not work in the pharmaceutical industry in anyway shape or form. Not sure why you think I do or if you seriously believe only those people would continue to support their decision to be jabbed. I have zero financial or other conflicting interest in any aspect other than my own personal health and that of those I love.

Natural immunity didnt do much for the millions that have died because of covid in the last 3 yrs has it? And unless you have a crystal ball you cannot say millions more wouldn’t have died without the initial lockdowns and vaccines? Obviously natural immunity great but it’s not enough on its own or do you consider all vaccines and public health measures pointless? Also you have to run the gauntlet of the potential repercussions of the disease (death and disablement in various forms) before you acquire that immunity. Hardly unproblematic either.

I do hear your points on things that were ok til they weren’t and the money driving the resistance to change. I’m willing to agree there may be issues we are or were not not aware of. I also agree we do need to know more. That’s not the same as running around screaming the sky has fallen and being childishly oversimplistic in making every issue black or white. Grey is where most of life exists. Also just because some of my views oppose yours doesn’t automatically mean I agree with all the actions that were taken either or that I disagree on everything you say. More oversimplification. Honestly the argument you support would do far better and be listened to by a far wider audience by making reasoned and sensible claims and not acting like tabloid headlines (or swearing at people)

 

[RobertJ]

I'm Type 1. I had three jabs before getting Covid, then got it two weeks after my third jab. It was incredibly mild. To even call it an illness would be an exaggeration.

I then got it a second time in September 2022, which was ten months after my last jab. It was even milder that time.

I'm not really sure what I'll do in the long-term but I don't feel enthusiastic about getting more booster jabs. I feel like there is a climate of fear about Covid vaccines. The message is: If you question their safety you are an unhinged conspiracy theorist.

We're allowed to talk about the contraceptive pill having dodgy side-effects and it's right that we are. Why can't we talk about dodgy side effects of something else without it becoming a culture war?

I know of two women who experienced significant disruption to their menstrual cycle after the second jab. We're talking women in their late twenties with absolutely no health problems. The government messaging at the time was: If you, as a normal, healthy young person, don't take the vaccine you are putting other people in danger. We now know, scientifically, this message was absolute rubbish and quite simply a lie.

It's quite amazing how we've just moved on from this, as if it was no big deal to guilt-trip young, healthy people into taking an experimental vaccine they probably didn't need. It seems like once we decided the vaccines were 'safe and effective' any facts to the contrary just had to be swept under the carpet.

 

[Jo_the_boat]

I am not sure if it was sarcasm you are being serious but I do not work in the pharmaceutical industry in anyway shape or form. Not sure why you think I do or if you seriously believe only those people would continue to support their decision to be jabbed. I have zero financial or other conflicting interest in any aspect other than my own personal health and that of those I love.

Natural immunity didnt do much for the millions that have died because of covid in the last 3 yrs has it? And unless you have a crystal ball you cannot say millions more wouldn’t have died without the initial lockdowns and vaccines? Obviously natural immunity great but it’s not enough on its own or do you consider all vaccines and public health measures pointless? Also you have to run the gauntlet of the potential repercussions of the disease (death and disablement in various forms) before you acquire that immunity. Hardly unproblematic either.

I do hear your points on things that were ok til they weren’t and the money driving the resistance to change. I’m willing to agree there may be issues we are or were not not aware of. I also agree we do need to know more. That’s not the same as running around screaming the sky has fallen and being childishly oversimplistic in making every issue black or white. Grey is where most of life exists. Also just because some of my views oppose yours doesn’t automatically mean I agree with all the actions that were taken either or that I disagree on everything you say. More oversimplification. Honestly the argument you support would do far better and be listened to by a far wider audience by making reasoned and sensible claims and not acting like tabloid headlines (or swearing at people)

Oh dear, you're mistaking light humour for sarcasm. Apologies.

But it does sound like all your points have come straight from a Pfizer press release. Which, incidentally, a large part of our initial 'trust' in the vaccines did! How do you think we knew so much about the safety and efficacy of the mRNA vaccines? It wasn't through independent research, there wasn't any. It wasn't as a result of exhaustive trials / testing, there wasn't time. It was from Pfizer itself. They, with plenty of 'reimbursed' political and corporate allies, were the source of just how good their new tech was.

The video linked at the end of my previous post tackles, in part, vaccine v natural immunity.

Like many people I have discussed this with, I am not trying to change your mind, I am trying to persuade you to at least look at the other side. Not so good for me because my sister is a prescribing nurse and my brother (former fire-fighter) trained himself up to vaccinated people.

 

[Jo_the_boat]

I'm Type 1. I had three jabs before getting Covid, then got it two weeks after my third jab. It was incredibly mild. To even call it an illness would be an exaggeration.

I then got it a second time in September 2022, which was ten months after my last jab. It was even milder that time.

I'm not really sure what I'll do in the long-term but I don't feel enthusiastic about getting more booster jabs. I feel like there is a climate of fear about Covid vaccines. The message is: If you question their safety you are an unhinged conspiracy theorist.

We're allowed to talk about the contraceptive pill having dodgy side-effects and it's right that we are. We can't we talk about dodgy side effects of something else without it becoming a culture war?

I know of two women who experienced significant disruption to their menstrual cycle after the second jab. We're talking women in their late twenties with absolutely no health problems. The government messaging at the time was: If you, as a normal, healthy young person, don't take the vaccine you are putting other people in danger. We now know, scientifically, this message was absolute rubbish and quite simply a lie.

It's quite amazing how we've just moved on from this, as if it was no big deal to guilt-trip young, healthy people into taking an experimental vaccine they probably didn't need. It seems like once we decided the vaccines were 'safe and effective' any facts to the contrary just had to be swept under the carpet.

I agree. I've regularly seen the points you outline made on various platforms.
There is so much information bubbling under, much of it true. Much, as you say, is swept away while people continue to suffer. I really believe the mainstream media should be utterly ashamed.

We have a local councillor who parroted week after week after week about how we should get injected, stay inside, protect granny. Basically spewing out the establishment mantra. Thing is it was wrong, or if not wrong, she had no idea it was actually right. As it's turned out, she looked local people in the eye and basically lied. Local people have suffered as a result.
She is not a medic and she obviously didn't do any in depth research. It's more than disturbing, it's frankly criminal.
Local elections are due, and I will have my say.

 

[Deleted member 475901]

Average age of those who had died with COVID-19 - Office for National Statistics

Governments own figures.
My mistake i was 2 years out.

Did you look at my link? The numbers exposed to covid, eg all those poor people in care homes, means the numbers are like comparing apples and pears in stats.

 

[bulkbiker]

The numbers exposed to covid, eg all those poor people in care homes,

All that Midazolam had to be used somewhere though...

 

[HSSS]

I feel like there is a climate of fear about Covid vaccines. The message is: If you question their safety you are an unhinged conspiracy theorist.

We're allowed to talk about the contraceptive pill having dodgy side-effects and it's right that we are. Why can't we talk about dodgy side effects of something else without it becoming a culture war?

I know of two women who experienced significant disruption to their menstrual cycle after the second jab. We're talking women in their late twenties with absolutely no health problems. The government messaging at the time was: If you, as a normal, healthy young person, don't take the vaccine you are putting other people in danger. We now know, scientifically, this message was absolute rubbish and quite simply a lie.

And the message if you feel they were worthwhile is “you’re a sheep that will believe anything”. Equally extremist.

Quite right we should be able to discuss it - without being told it’s killing everyone and to blame for every world evil.

dead, unable to function normally, pancreatic damage or late period? Umm let me choose?

The message was not a lie nor has it been proved to be scientifically or otherwise. It wasn’t fully accurate agreed. It didn’t perform as well as hoped ie 100%. That is not the same at all

Same old extremist, black and white, unproven arguments and you wonder why it gets dismissed exactly the same way the people who see it your way dismiss a vaccine positive message.

Ever considered the reason your case was mild was because of the vaccine ? Then boosted by natural immunity having survived the exposure.