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'Newcastle diet' advice

kimyeomans said:
Hi
I recently started on my version of the Newcastle diet. I say my version as I swapped Optifast meals for Exante as Optifast were not easily available.
1 week in and mixed experiences
BS down from 10.4 to 7.8 but in the week all over the place, some higher then I had for some time, up to 11+. And lots of the symptoms from original diagnosis, 'cold eyes' blurry vision, crinkly tingly fingers and frequent urination?
Weight down by 8lb to 14st 13lb, lowest since diagnosis.
BP down 145/90 to 119/88
So far so good. Not hungry at all, fancied some meat or a beer from time to time but easy to resist. Mind set ok.

Any tips or advice welcome

regards
Kim
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First of all Well Done for doing this diet yourself. Secondly, see your practice nurse or DN if these symptoms persist, and discuss the diet and the symptoms with them. The people selected for the Newcastle Diet were chosen based on the information given by themselves and their medical team, they were also very closely monitored by the research team so any problems. This diet might not be suitable for every diabetic, and I do wonder if a better option would be something like the 5:2, where you eat "normally" for five days and for 2 days have a combined intake of 500 calories. I have been following this since October last year and have now lost 2stone in weight, and I can assure any one thinking about doing this diet, that I have not yet been hungry, and on what I call the "starvation days" I have eaten as well as on the normal eating days. I will add that at present I have also given up chocolate, alcohol and cheese for Lent, and three weeks in, my cholesterol levels have dropped very nicely...6.2 to 4.1....and no craving for any of them at present :-)
 
AndBreathe said:
Paulins - I'm so pleased to hear you continue to do well, and have been considered reversed.

As a matter of interest, what sort of carb levels are you eating these days, and what sort of blood scores do you see, if you still test?

Well. Well done. You should be very proud of your achievements, especially with the bumps in the road you encountered along the way.
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In answer to your questions ...

- I used Shake that Weight products as my GP said they gave the vitamins and nutrients required. Optifast is only available in the US and shipping costs were prohibitive. I used them for 5 months, gradually introducing low carb/high protein foods to the vegetables I was allowed for the evening meal.

- almost all fasting readings have been in the 4s (4.2-4.9), with the very occasional one at 5.1-5.5. After exercise it can go as low as 3.5-3.8, though it quickly comes back up. One hour after main meal, usually sitting at 5.6-6.5, and two hrs after meal usually around 5.2-5.9.

- run 6k every day, though have been advised I need at least 2 rest days to let muscles recover. I plan to begin swimming (after 30 years!!!!) and will sign up for some lessons I think. I have also been shown some exercises to build strength/resistance and do them each evening.

- carbs, I have begun to re-introduce them one at a time. I LOVE bread, but have found where to buy spelt flour bread (less then half the carbs) and I bought spelt flour and make my own, and spelt spaghetti pasta (same) which I use for spaghetti bolognese, and spelt pasta quills (which I use with chilli con carne). I eat nuts, avocado, low fat high protein meat (chicken, ham), any vegetable now (with Newcastle diet I avoided starchy root veg), and plan to try rice next - though Basmati wholemeal rice which is lower carb. I have mainly stuck with berries which are very low in sugar, and I love them so it is no hardship. I have had a couple of glasses of wine and champagne at special family events. Have not tried potatoes at all yet. You will see from the readings that these things have had no adverse effects on my BS levels.

- one thing I have NOT done yet is to eat a slice of chocolate cake to see what happens! But my friend made me a diabetic Christmas cake and it had little impact on levels and it had some sugar in it, so might try that soon.

- I was given a book called "Low Carb Comfort Eating" which has some fab tasty and filling recipes, and I make them often.

I plan to test throughout this year as well, and will keep a record of what I'm eating and what my levels are. My doctor tells me I have a low diabetes threshold so will watch my weight carefully, and I will keep exercising!

Good luck everyone!
 
paulins said:
In answer to your questions ...

- I used Shake that Weight products as my GP said they gave the vitamins and nutrients required. Optifast is only available in the US and shipping costs were prohibitive. I used them for 5 months, gradually introducing low carb/high protein foods to the vegetables I was allowed for the evening meal.

- almost all fasting readings have been in the 4s (4.2-4.9), with the very occasional one at 5.1-5.5. After exercise it can go as low as 3.5-3.8, though it quickly comes back up. One hour after main meal, usually sitting at 5.6-6.5, and two hrs after meal usually around 5.2-5.9.

- run 6k every day, though have been advised I need at least 2 rest days to let muscles recover. I plan to begin swimming (after 30 years!!!!) and will sign up for some lessons I think. I have also been shown some exercises to build strength/resistance and do them each evening.

- carbs, I have begun to re-introduce them one at a time. I LOVE bread, but have found where to buy spelt flour bread (less then half the carbs) and I bought spelt flour and make my own, and spelt spaghetti pasta (same) which I use for spaghetti bolognese, and spelt pasta quills (which I use with chilli con carne). I eat nuts, avocado, low fat high protein meat (chicken, ham), any vegetable now (with Newcastle diet I avoided starchy root veg), and plan to try rice next - though Basmati wholemeal rice which is lower carb. I have mainly stuck with berries which are very low in sugar, and I love them so it is no hardship. I have had a couple of glasses of wine and champagne at special family events. Have not tried potatoes at all yet. You will see from the readings that these things have had no adverse effects on my BS levels.

- one thing I have NOT done yet is to eat a slice of chocolate cake to see what happens! But my friend made me a diabetic Christmas cake and it had little impact on levels and it had some sugar in it, so might try that soon.

- I was given a book called "Low Carb Comfort Eating" which has some fab tasty and filling recipes, and I make them often.

I plan to test throughout this year as well, and will keep a record of what I'm eating and what my levels are. My doctor tells me I have a low diabetes threshold so will watch my weight carefully, and I will keep exercising!

Good luck everyone!
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Thanks for that comprehensive summary Paulins. I'm positive that will be very useful and motivational for many people.

Just one final thing, if you could. Roughly how many grammes of carb are you eating these days (on average)? I usually side-step this question when asked myself, as it's such a personal (in terms of tolerance, rather than sensitive), so if you feel it's unhelpful, jus ignore me.

I trust you are also otherwise well and thriving.
 
Thanks for the info. Really informative. I cycle about 7 miles a day on exercise bike so interesting that they suggest rest days as I've sometimes found it hard going - roll on spring and I can do some more walking in lieu.
Good luck with it all. Xxx
 
AndBreathe said:
Thanks for that comprehensive summary Paulins. I'm positive that will be very useful and motivational for many people.

Just one final thing, if you could. Roughly how many grammes of carb are you eating these days (on average)? I usually side-step this question when asked myself, as it's such a personal (in terms of tolerance, rather than sensitive), so if you feel it's unhelpful, jus ignore me.

I trust you are also otherwise well and thriving.
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I don't mind answering it is just that it varies so much from day to day. It depends on what meals I am having and whether I have bread or not. As a general rule I completely avoid anything that has a reading higher than 30 per 100g, and I remain alert to high carb foods and avoid them. So, I can have the occasional slice of bread from Burgen (the seeded one) but it is higher than I normally eat. I eat no processed foods at all - everything is made from scratch. My husband has been great and he makes fab soups, curries, stir fries, etc etc. My evening meal today was home made meatballs - lean ground beef - in home made tomato ragout, and spelt flour tagliatelli. I see this as a life change, not a diet. I feel so much better overall without all the carbs and am healthier than I have been for many years. I have struggled with another health issue this past year and have been told that I coped so well with it because of the weight loss and the exercise and the healthy eating. Happy to answer any questions - I have felt very supported by several contributors to the forum over this past year and am happy reciprocate and help others. I need help now to keep going and stay on the right side of the diabetes threshold, which for me seems to be low.
 
cold ethyl said:
Thanks for the info. Really informative. I cycle about 7 miles a day on exercise bike so interesting that they suggest rest days as I've sometimes found it hard going - roll on spring and I can do some more walking in lieu.
Good luck with it all. Xxx
Click to expand...

Apparently our muscles need recovery time and will actually be stronger if we build this into our exercise regime. One suggestion was two days running (for you cycling) then one rest day. On the rest day I can do something else - swimming, strength/ resistance exercises, just not running. Meant also to say my blood pressure medication has been reduced twice and during a recent short stay in hospital they said it was too low and did not give me it for three days! They told me to go to the GP to see if it could be stopped, but it went up again as soon as I walked into the surgery, so she said she was not keen to stop it since it could bounce up like that. White coat syndrome I think. But only on 2.5 mg now. Having debate about statins as well. Stopped them and levels went up to 5, then took them again and down to 4, so she wants me to stay on them. Nothing to do with food as eating so healthily!
 
paulins said:
Apparently our muscles need recovery time and will actually be stronger if we build this into our exercise regime. One suggestion was two days running (for you cycling) then one rest day. On the rest day I can do something else - swimming, strength/ resistance exercises, just not running. Meant also to say my blood pressure medication has been reduced twice and during a recent short stay in hospital they said it was too low and did not give me it for three days! They told me to go to the GP to see if it could be stopped, but it went up again as soon as I walked into the surgery, so she said she was not keen to stop it since it could bounce up like that. White coat syndrome I think. But only on 2.5 mg now. Having debate about statins as well. Stopped them and levels went up to 5, then took them again and down to 4, so she wants me to stay on them. Nothing to do with food as eating so healthily!
Click to expand...


Tell me about white coat syndrome. Mine runs at about 124/66 normally on my own meter but in surgery it's pushing 175/80 - I can feel it going up before they even put the cuff on. I will try a rest day as I do think I need a bit of recovery time at my age! I am ignoring my GP on statins so far. They dole them out like sweets and no one yet knows the long term effects of long term use in the well.
 
I rode to the end of the beach in the Avatar tonight. It wanted to rain but held off. Big celebration this morning I weighed in at 199.5 lbs so 14st. 3.5 lbs ! I've lost 52lbs. I am still getting neuropathy in my feet if I don't workout but I normally work out every day. I 've not checked my A1c in a while I'll get it done shortly I know I am a good deal healthier than I've been in 20 years. That's the truth..
 
kimyeomans said:
Hi
I recently started on my version of the Newcastle diet. I say my version as I swapped Optifast meals for Exante as Optifast were not easily available.
1 week in and mixed experiences
BS down from 10.4 to 7.8 but in the week all over the place, some higher then I had for some time, up to 11+. And lots of the symptoms from original diagnosis, 'cold eyes' blurry vision, crinkly tingly fingers and frequent urination?
Weight down by 8lb to 14st 13lb, lowest since diagnosis.
BP down 145/90 to 119/88
So far so good. Not hungry at all, fancied some meat or a beer from time to time but easy to resist. Mind set ok.

Any tips or advice welcome

regards
Kim
Click to expand...
I am on day 4 of the Newcastle diet and I know that they used Optifast meals for the study but surely this is to ensure that the test subjects food intake could be more easily controlled. I have not cut out poultry, fish, meat, fruit or dairy products but I do stick to a daily calorie intake of not more than 700cal. I also make sure that all my food has a low or medium glycemic load.

After 3 days I did lose 7lbs. Initially my blood sugar reading was 9.9mmol/L but the lowest it has gone to was 6.9 but is mostly in the low 8s.

I know I have a way to go but I am sticking to the diet very strictly. Incidently I did buy a meal replacement to Optifast by "Shake that Weight" but only use it occassionally. Sometimes I pimp it up by mixing it with low fat yogurt or fruit but I always count the calories.
 
I suppose you are conducting your own experiment by deviating from the original protocol. But hopefully it is the calorie restriction alone that causes the diabetes reversal effect, and not some aspect of the nutritional composition of the Optifast shakes.
 
jack412 said:
@Spiker he wants the fat gone, he doesn't care what they eat/drink, cut the carbs and reduce protein, the drinks are an easy way for people who don't know a starch from their elbow
from 1:00 hour into video, near the end
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/events/public-lectures/item.php?roy-taylor-diabetes
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Sure, but he only has experimental proof using the shakes, right?

I mean I am sure Prof Taylor is right and most forms of calorie restriction would work. But deviating from the proven protocol is an experiment, of sorts.
 
I don't see it as a diversion and I think there is too much carb in the drinks/salad at 90g a day. I'd have the salad and the rest as protein and fat ~60g each, which is the RDA
Taylor works on the theory if you eat 800cal a day for 8 weeks, you will lose weight. end of. he has said you can eat 1500 and it just takes longer
Having the drinks and a salad is just a simple way to have uniformity in the study, simple is good and you know when you cheat
 
I'm just trying to make a distinction between what Prof Taylor believes, and what he has proven to be true. I'm not saying he's wrong. He's probably right.
 
Spiker said:
I suppose you are conducting your own experiment by deviating from the original protocol. But hopefully it is the calorie restriction alone that causes the diabetes reversal effect, and not some aspect of the nutritional composition of the Optifast shakes.
Click to expand...
Hi Spiker,
I am pretty sure if you are conducting a controlled experiment with 11 subjects, you want to make sure they all stick to an almost identical diet. I would imagine the easiest way to do this would be to use controlled meal replacements such as Optifast so you know they all get an almost exact food intake.

The key differences and features of my approach are as follows:

1. I stick to a maximum of 700 calories a day
2. I do not leave out meat, fish, poultry or dairy products but I always count the calories
3. I only choose foods with a low glycemic load (GL) as opposed to glycemic index (GI). Remember some foods such as watermelon can have a high GI but if you control the portion size then the GL is in fact low due to the density of the sugar in a portion size of one slice.
4. I still use meal replacement meals by "Shake that weight" but only occasionally if I don't have time to prepare a meal
5. I take into account calories burned through exercise. So if for example my daily food intake amounts to 780 calories per day but my exercise amounted to 200 calories then my net daily calorie intake becomes 580cal. I therefore use exercise as an incentive to "bank" additional calories so I can add other items to my meals.
6. I don't go overboard with the exercise as I want to lead a normal life as possible. My exercise consists of brisk walking when I need to go to the shops (there are online tools to calculate calories burned based on your weight and age) and exercising on a stationary exercise bike. My bike has a console which estimates calories burned based on your age, distance cycled and tension applied to the flywheel. Most exercise bikes have these now as standard.

So far the results have been significant even though I am on day 6 of the diet. I have lost 3Kg since I started and my lowest blood glucose reading has gone down from averaging around the mid 8s to 6.4mmol/L. It is early days to attribute this to loss of fat around the organs but by simply sticking to the low calorie/low GL diet has had an effect.

I am recording everything I eat, blood glucose readings, exercise, weight and waist size into a spreadsheet and hope to publish this one day.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
VinnyD said:
Hi Spiker,
I am pretty sure if you are conducting a controlled experiment with 11 subjects, you want to make sure they all stick to an almost identical diet. I would imagine the easiest way to do this would be to use controlled meal replacements such as Optifast so you know they all get an almost exact food intake.

The key differences and features of my approach are as follows:

1. I stick to a maximum of 700 calories a day
2. I do not leave out meat, fish, poultry or dairy products but I always count the calories
3. I only choose foods with a low glycemic load (GL) as opposed to glycemic index (GI). Remember some foods such as watermelon can have a high GI but if you control the portion size then the GL is in fact low due to the density of the sugar in a portion size of one slice.
4. I still use meal replacement meals by "Shake that weight" but only occasionally if I don't have time to prepare a meal
5. I take into account calories burned through exercise. So if for example my daily food intake amounts to 780 calories per day but my exercise amounted to 200 calories then my net daily calorie intake becomes 580cal. I therefore use exercise as an incentive to "bank" additional calories so I can add other items to my meals.
6. I don't go overboard with the exercise as I want to lead a normal life as possible. My exercise consists of brisk walking when I need to go to the shops (there are online tools to calculate calories burned based on your weight and age) and exercising on a stationary exercise bike. My bike has a console which estimates calories burned based on your age, distance cycled and tension applied to the flywheel. Most exercise bikes have these now as standard.

So far the results have been significant even though I am on day 6 of the diet. I have lost 3Kg since I started and my lowest blood glucose reading has gone down from averaging around the mid 8s to 6.4mmol/L. It is early days to attribute this to loss of fat around the organs but by simply sticking to the low calorie/low GL diet has had an effect.

I am recording everything I eat, blood glucose readings, exercise, weight and waist size into a spreadsheet and hope to publish this one day.
Click to expand...
Just as I finish submitting my post, my morning BG reading before breakfast is now 6.1mmol/L, a new low for me. Definitely sticking to the plan!
 
I am 4 weeks into nd now lost 10 kilos and BG readings not going past 5.1 and stay in 4 all day. I am on shake that weight too but tje sweetness is almost killing me now so have added some proteins but 800 calories worth veggies raw or soup are a lot more fibre and also something to eat that the shakes but I am sticking to shakes because it might or it does have all the nutrients we need. I could be wrong but I get 400 cals from shakes and remaining 400 from veggies and proteins and rest is all water.
 
brettsza said:
I am 4 weeks into nd now lost 10 kilos and BG readings not going past 5.1 and stay in 4 all day. I am on shake that weight too but tje sweetness is almost killing me now so have added some proteins but 800 calories worth veggies raw or soup are a lot more fibre and also something to eat that the shakes but I am sticking to shakes because it might or it does have all the nutrients we need. I could be wrong but I get 400 cals from shakes and remaining 400 from veggies and proteins and rest is all water.
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I agree the carb sugars in Shake that weight are not particularly low (between 9 to 11g) which is why I tend to have not more than one of these in any single day. But it is really good to see the dramatic change in your Bg readings as you are within the NICE target range for non diabetics which is great.

Incidentally I forgot to mention that I am still on medication. I take 1 metformin tablet in the morning after breakfast and one in the evening after my meal. My doctor wanted me to increase my dosage but eventually I want to eliminate the medication altogether. I would be interested to know if you still take medication.
 
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