Newcastle diet starting Monday, done it once who gonna join me on my journey??

What you all are saying is right.
I did ND not to get back to my old habits of eating carbs and not be effected with it in terms of my bg.
I did it so I can have occasional treats and maintain the regime of LCHF with help of which I got a massive drop in my a1c.
But to be honest once you are off it, even if you want to you wouldnt be able to eat a lot.
I had salad and soup last night thinking I will have some meat after all this but after salad I was full, I waited for an hour and had a few sips of soup and I was absolutely full to the max, I know it will take time to get used to real food and more importantly digest them.
Everyone has a different view and take on ND but this is my personal and not everyone would probably agree with me.
I am still LCHF and trying to maintain the weight I lost on ND, if I can maintain that weight for a month or may be gain 2 or 3 kilos back, I would feel it was all well worth it in the end, ofcourse also hoping my bg figures stay good.

Steve50 said:

Thanks for the links RoyTJFL

This 'theory' makes a lot of sense - and puts plainly - what many of us (I'm sure) have thought about. It's not only about losing the weight but keeping it off - and that relies on re-setting our systems to 'defend' the right body/fat mass. That is, the correct fat mass for our personal fat threshold (to combine the theory with Prof T and the ND).

Personally - I think this will require a lifestyle change. I agree we do not want to be constantly 'concentrating' on losing weight - which is what I feel I am doing on the ND. It's exhausting, anti social and I doubt that is it physically and mentally healthy in the long run. I think that once the weight is down, and hopefully T2 in remission - then the challenge will be - of course - to stay there. So, this may require a re-setting of my system, which will include a measure of consciously selecting food and intentionally altering my eating habit - but neither to a point which remains the same level of effort as the ND.

We have discussed the HFLC - which I agree is effective - but I'm not sure for me that it will be the complete answer in the long run. I think I will change a few things about the house, such as what I have in the cupboards and fridge. Removing temptations that are essentially empty calories will be a start. Then I think I will have 'leaning' towards HFLC. Nothing wrong with an omelette without toast or a steak with just a salad and nice creamy pepper sauce. To be honest I prefer them that way. But I also think the introduction of fasting will be important for me. I'll have to see what it takes - either the 5/2 or a 24 hr fast once a week or so may be needed. This will hopefully reduce the mental strain of maintaining my right weight.

It will be a case of trail and error I'm sure - but I'm also predicting that it will not be as simple or strait forward as just one change. It will require some re-learning and developing some survival strategies. We have to survive in a world that - for us Diebies - is designed to basically kill us. We live in a world where we grew up with and are surrounded by the wrong diet, and wrong social environment. We cant change the world we live in - so we have to change the way we live in it.

End of though stream.

Maybe the ND is waking up a few neglected brain cells after all!!!!

Click to expand...

I agree so much which your post, I would like to be able to like it a hundred times, it is very insightful about the challenges of maintaining weight. And that is why I like the guy behind the links I posted, Stephan Guyenet, so much. He is a obesity researcher who really wants to do good, not just sell you som forever needs taking weightloss drug pushed by a pharmaceutical company because obesity is a "chronic" disease kind of guy, he is really honest. Also he has been both a vegetarian and a lowcarber, so he endorses the lowcarb diet for weightloss if you want to try it, and his explainations for why saturated fat is probably not that harmful, is amongst the best defences I have ever read on the sjubect.

But what he also does is that is he puts the science of obesity really in a context of a sustainable lifestyle, and he tells you why the lowcarb diet really works, and how you can achieve the same thing, with another diet but by the same principles that made lowcarbing sucessful.

Here is a 50 page condensed document with 174 references, where he fleshes out his thoughts about obesity and sustainable weightloss. It is by far the best summary of the subject I have seen,and really worth going through, even if it very condensed, and packed with information.

https://www.dansplan.com/assets/Ideal_Weight_Program_Scientific_Rational.pdf

When you are armed with this information you can really lay the foundations for a lifestyle that will work for you, and this coupled with Jason Fungs information about fasting, has made me capable of maintaining my weightloss.

Lowcarb will always be like my first love, I lost most of my weight on it, and my father as well, but I now I eat lots of carbs, but unprocessed.
Stepgan Guyenets theories about leptin and setpoint, coupled with Roy Taylors personal fat threshold makes really sense to me, but Stephan Guyenets ideas are unusual for many in the beginning, but if they keep an open mind, like you for instance contemplating that HFLC is not the game in town in the long run, it could be quite beneficial.

Firstly, I will reiterate that haven't done the ND, but by virtue of trimming up and reducing carbs, I have had serially non-diabetic HbA1s scores. In fact, I have only ever had one diabetic range HbA1c score, although I accepted my diagnosis on this, backed up by a number of diabetic range finger prick tests over a brief period. My HbA1c stats are in my signature.

But, having reduced my blood scores, which was initially my sole objective, and trimmed to very lean, only as a later objective, once I understood Professor Taylor's concept of PFT, I was similarly faced with formulating a maintenance plan which would not result in weight, and, or blood glucose you-yo effects. My method of choice was to maintain a low carb lifestyle, but to adjust the proportions of macronutrients I ea on a day to day basis. It's fair to say, and I have documented it casually on this site, that finding a balance point took a little while. During that time, I didn't find myself gaining weight, but losing more. To be honest, my preference would have been to settle 4 or 5kg heavier than I am now, but I wasn't about to set my self an objective of weight gain.

For me, my current regime is pretty relaxed and I almost run with it, without too much thought or planning. My have a wide range of food that I eat, as and when seems right, and have no issue dining our in restaurants, or at friends homes. Like most people mindful of their waistlines, if I have an excessively large meal one evening, I wouldn't say I cut back next day, but I tray not to back it up with another gorge. I eat a lot. In fact, it is often commented upon by people that I eat more than my OH, but their state of mindfulness doesn't usually lead them to analyse that my plat may have a mega mound of veg, and a few chips or potatoes, on it, whereas his might have a portion of veg, but more chips or potatoes. Our proportions are the biggest differentiators in our diets. Oh, and he sometimes enjoys a beer, whereas I'd prefer to stick with a glass of red. My diet is largely reduced but mixed carb, medium but always quality protein and enough fat to prevent a calorific deficit. Thankfully few people ask me to put a label on it!

I don't fast and I don't 5:2. I don't want that level of thinking or planning, and thankfully, it hasn't been necessary for me, to date. I do accept that 15 months on from my second HbA1c, and the first of my returned to non-diabetic levels, that it's still early days. Things may change for me, and I may have to think again, radically.

I think we all have our challenges when it comes to this big D thing, but fasting seems like it's designed to shock the body. Surely, on fasting or the 2 days (with reference to 5:2), your body is going to be shocked into considering starvation mode, or are you not considering utilising them often enough for that. Secondly, wouldn't is be reasonable to expect your blood scores would show differing glucose profiles on eating and fasting days? My personal preference is to maintain fairly steady bloods, minimising the peaks and troughs. For me, I'm more likely to seek out something, anything to eat if I'm hungry, so why go through fasting and increase the risk of a carb-fest?

I'm not sure I have expressed myself too well here, and please don't think I'm saying you shouldn't eat in any way that suits you. Let's face it, my life won't be changed whatever you are anyone else eats, I'm just putting forward a counter argument for discussion or debate.

Good luck with it all. This diabetes is certainly food for thought.

Hi AB

Interesting.

I have just read the reference added by RoyTJFL. Again - interesting. I learned about the importance of sleep - and it also includes a useful discussion on physical movement and personal goals (psychology). Definitely worth a read.

I think the point you are making supports the 'we are all individuals' argument - and nature and nurture have a lot to do with the decisions we make. Personally I am an all or nothing person. If I decide to do something I usually achieve it. For example - a few years ago I decided to learn the piano. I have now gained a 7th grade certificate (very proud) as well as a lot of respect for pianists! So - when I decided to do the ND - I knew I would do it. No question. And I find ways to support this goal - such as joining this blog.

What I am completely rubbish at is noticing the gradual changes that happen to me and around me. I don't notice the long term detrimental effects of how much I do or don't sleep, how much movement I am engaging in over the course of the day, or importantly what I am eating and when. I have let myself gradually become T2 - in the full knowledge of my family history and increasing risk factors. That is disappointing!

I can do the ND - 8 weeks - simple. I've made my mind up, done the reading, prepared for it and am doing it. But I question what comes next. I know it will be so easy to rebound.

If you have been able to reset your body fat status - reinvent yourself as a slimmer and healthier person - that is fantastic - and if that means you are able to remain on the right side of T2 - even better. I think I will need little projects, like a fasting day or a few weeks or so on the 5/2 to keep below my target weight. I need something that I am consciously working on - not a state of subconscious reliance on a reset body fat self image - or environmental factors - that had not worked for me all that well up until now.

Staying in remission (if indeed I achieve it) is going to be a project for me - I just need to work out how to make it less painful.

Pleased to hear AB that life can still be enjoyed without compromise.

Thanks Pip

I guess what I am saying is that I am aware that staying under my personal fat threshold is the real key to success - not just getting there in the first place.

I am considering long term strategies that will achieve this and the 5/2 is one. I'm really interested to hear what others have done, are doing or are planning to do - especially people such as yourself, AB, Brettza, Rob and the rest of you..........

Steve50 said:

Hi AB

Interesting.

I have just read the reference added by RoyTJFL. Again - interesting. I learned about the importance of sleep - and it also includes a useful discussion on physical movement and personal goals (psychology). Definitely worth a read.

I think the point you are making supports the 'we are all individuals' argument - and nature and nurture have a lot to do with the decisions we make. Personally I am an all or nothing person. If I decide to do something I usually achieve it. For example - a few years ago I decided to learn the piano. I have now gained a 7th grade certificate (very proud) as well as a lot of respect for pianists! So - when I decided to do the ND - I knew I would do it. No question. And I find ways to support this goal - such as joining this blog.

What I am completely rubbish at is noticing the gradual changes that happen to me and around me. I don't notice the long term detrimental effects of how much I do or don't sleep, how much movement I am engaging in over the course of the day, or importantly what I am eating and when. I have let myself gradually become T2 - in the full knowledge of my family history and increasing risk factors. That is disappointing!

I can do the ND - 8 weeks - simple. I've made my mind up, done the reading, prepared for it and am doing it. But I question what comes next. I know it will be so easy to rebound.

If you have been able to reset your body fat status - reinvent yourself as a slimmer and healthier person - that is fantastic - and if that means you are able to remain on the right side of T2 - even better. I think I will need little projects, like a fasting day or a few weeks or so on the 5/2 to keep below my target weight. I need something that I am consciously working on - not a state of subconscious reliance on a reset body fat self image - or environmental factors - that had not worked for me all that well up until now.

Staying in remission (if indeed I achieve it) is going to be a project for me - I just need to work out how to make it less painful.

Pleased to hear AB that life can still be enjoyed without compromise.

Click to expand...

Yes, of course, we are all different.

I too am a "completer". I like to see a job through. I also always have goals and targets in my life. But, before I was diagnosed with Diabetes, I had goals and targets, and I still do. I just don't want the rest of my life to have diabetes at its hub, driving conscious, goal driven behaviours. Maybe, over time, that will catch me out.

You can still have goals and challenges, but I would rather them relate to far more life enhancing or enriching, or even scarier than maintaining my weight at xkg. Maintaining an HbA1c under diabetic levels will of course always be a goal, but in the same way waking up breathing is a goal.

Hi AB

I guess I do have an obsession with diabetes as I grew up with a diabetic mother (I used to give her her injections) and then watched both of my younger sisters and older brother all develop T2 and T1. I was the last to be diagnosed. That is what I meant by nature and nurture.

If maintaining a weigh level below my personal fat threshold can be as easy as waking up and breathing - fantastic!

(But I note your signature block says 'Work in Progress')

Well I am week 1 out of ND tomorrow, I would say it has not been easy even coming off it as there is a constant fear in your mind as to what will happen if you start eating high carb food. So i have stayed LCHF till now and all my figures have been in 4's with a few in 5's but they were 1 hour after the meal.
Long term plan is only to stay LCHF with some treats along the way.
I have had one treat till now and bg behaved so not overly unhappy with it.
Main problem is even if you want to you really cant eat a lot, I am still full on salad and a bowl of soup.
Would I be full having same amount of food earlier, I dont think so but I am trying to increase my diet to get more calories in.
One thing I would like to do is do a 16:8 IF which is 16 hour fasting and 8 hours of sensible eating window.
This 16 hour is not really something I will struggle with as I normally skip breakfast even after coming off nd but lets see if i can really do it or not.
I am not going force or push myself to do it, I will if I can.
I will not do anything major in terms of change to my diet or exercise regime till my bg asks me to do so, very comfortable at the moment with my eating and working out habits and most importantly my bg levels.

brettsza said:

Well I am week 1 out of ND tomorrow, I would say it has not been easy even coming off it as there is a constant fear in your mind as to what will happen if you start eating high carb food. So i have stayed LCHF till now and all my figures have been in 4's with a few in 5's but they were 1 hour after the meal.
Long term plan is only to stay LCHF with some treats along the way.
I have had one treat till now and bg behaved so not overly unhappy with it.
Main problem is even if you want to you really cant eat a lot, I am still full on salad and a bowl of soup.
Would I be full having same amount of food earlier, I dont think so but I am trying to increase my diet to get more calories in.
One thing I would like to do is do a 16:8 IF which is 16 hour fasting and 8 hours of sensible eating window.
This 16 hour is not really something I will struggle with as I normally skip breakfast even after coming off nd but lets see if i can really do it or not.
I am not going force or push myself to do it, I will if I can.
I will not do anything major in terms of change to my diet or exercise regime till my bg asks me to do so, very comfortable at the moment with my eating and working out habits and most importantly my bg levels.

Click to expand...

Just want to chime in here to note that it's now been several months since I finished the Newcastle Diet and I've been doing 16:8 IF pretty consistently (almost every day) since.

I'm happy to report that after the initial/immediate gain of approximately three pounds, I haven't gained any more weight (even though I also quit smoking after finishing ND - it's been seven weeks since a cigarette and three weeks since any nicotine gum!), and I think that IF is helping to maintain my weight.

I am eating a lot of carbs (250-350g a day, typically) but my fasting BG is still good (Occationally creeps over 100 mg/dL for a day) and my post-prandial tests are insanely good, even after very high GI meals. The ND weightloss, coupled with a renewed interest in exercise and decision to quit smoking, seems to be doing a good job of restoring my insulin sensitivity, to go along with my newfound hepatic insulin sensitivity and renewed beta cell function.

Long story short (too late?) IF might be a good plan going forward.

Steve50 said:

Hi AB

I guess I do have an obsession with diabetes as I grew up with a diabetic mother (I used to give her her injections) and then watched both of my younger sisters and older brother all develop T2 and T1. I was the last to be diagnosed. That is what I meant by nature and nurture.

If maintaining a weigh level below my personal fat threshold can be as easy as waking up and breathing - fantastic!

(But I note your signature block says 'Work in Progress')

Click to expand...

Life is a work in progress.

Steve50 said:

Hi TyTy

I think your questions have been answered in earlier posts - you need to look back through this discussion. The information has not changed.

Good luck with the ND.

Click to expand...

@Steve50

Well done and good luck!

Steve50 said:

Thanks for the links RoyTJFL

This 'theory' makes a lot of sense - and puts plainly - what many of us (I'm sure) have thought about. It's not only about losing the weight but keeping it off - and that relies on re-setting our systems to 'defend' the right body/fat mass. That is, the correct fat mass for our personal fat threshold (to combine the theory with Prof T and the ND).

Personally - I think this will require a lifestyle change. I agree we do not want to be constantly 'concentrating' on losing weight - which is what I feel I am doing on the ND. It's exhausting, anti social and I doubt that is it physically and mentally healthy in the long run. I think that once the weight is down, and hopefully T2 in remission - then the challenge will be - of course - to stay there. So, this may require a re-setting of my system, which will include a measure of consciously selecting food and intentionally altering my eating habit - but neither to a point which remains the same level of effort as the ND.

We have discussed the HFLC - which I agree is effective - but I'm not sure for me that it will be the complete answer in the long run. I think I will change a few things about the house, such as what I have in the cupboards and fridge. Removing temptations that are essentially empty calories will be a start. Then I think I will have 'leaning' towards HFLC. Nothing wrong with an omelette without toast or a steak with just a salad and nice creamy pepper sauce. To be honest I prefer them that way. But I also think the introduction of fasting will be important for me. I'll have to see what it takes - either the 5/2 or a 24 hr fast once a week or so may be needed. This will hopefully reduce the mental strain of maintaining my right weight.

It will be a case of trail and error I'm sure - but I'm also predicting that it will not be as simple or strait forward as just one change. It will require some re-learning and developing some survival strategies. We have to survive in a world that - for us Diebies - is designed to basically kill us. We live in a world where we grew up with and are surrounded by the wrong diet, and wrong social environment. We cant change the world we live in - so we have to change the way we live in it.

End of though stream.

Maybe the ND is waking up a few neglected brain cells after all!!!!

Click to expand...

In a nutshell Steve, my thoughts exactly, could not have put it any better, even for me at this early stage in the ND I've come to realise that I have to start thinking of the future after the ND with regards to what to eat, you've summed it up perfectly, it's life changing

Day 44. Fasting blood 5.5. No more weight loss. Seems to come in short spurts now. A few days of plateau - then 0.5kg drop. Still 24 BMI - and still 24kg lighter than last September. Didn't have so much water yesterday and fasting blood went up a little - so I might try increasing the water intake today to see if that makes any difference.

I'm still getting very cold hands and feet (and the tip of my nose!!!) - especially in the afternoon and evening. Sitting on the couch with hot water bottles, while the sun is shining outdoors seems not right on so many levels! I've tried moving around - and increased my exercise (mostly walking) - to see if elevated heart rate can improve circulation - but when I stop moving, hands and feet just seem to turn to ice.

Thanks for all your comments and ideas guys. Like the 16/8 idea and if it works - fantastic. Kind of doing that now on the ND as I don't have the first shake till mid-day.

Away for work again - just overnight - but no compulsory socialising - phew!

Hayfever season is here again and although I don't suffer as bad as I used too (due to regular injections) I have that Hayfever feeling. Any suggestions against illness on the ND? I guess it is just keep going and do the best you can.

telandy said:

Hayfever season is here again and although I don't suffer as bad as I used too (due to regular injections) I have that Hayfever feeling. Any suggestions against illness on the ND? I guess it is just keep going and do the best you can.

Click to expand...

I never had hay fever but in last 2 or 3 years I have had it, at the moment I dont do anything but yes it would be good to know if there is anything I could do as well to avoid it or get relief if it gets really bad.

Glitterbritches said:

Just want to chime in here to note that it's now been several months since I finished the Newcastle Diet and I've been doing 16:8 IF pretty consistently (almost every day) since.

I'm happy to report that after the initial/immediate gain of approximately three pounds, I haven't gained any more weight (even though I also quit smoking after finishing ND - it's been seven weeks since a cigarette and three weeks since any nicotine gum!), and I think that IF is helping to maintain my weight.

I am eating a lot of carbs (250-350g a day, typically) but my fasting BG is still good (Occationally creeps over 100 mg/dL for a day) and my post-prandial tests are insanely good, even after very high GI meals. The ND weightloss, coupled with a renewed interest in exercise and decision to quit smoking, seems to be doing a good job of restoring my insulin sensitivity, to go along with my newfound hepatic insulin sensitivity and renewed beta cell function.

Long story short (too late?) IF might be a good plan going forward.

Click to expand...

Thank god I am not the only one thinking about dieting in a different way after coming off ND so its not bad.
I am still trying to keep low cal and low carb diet to get used to eating more. I am still struggling to eat a lot at one time so I almost eat like all day but it would be something as less as a slice of boiled chicken or few nuts or soup.

Week 1 off ND and total weight loss now is 21 kilos, its more like 20.8
I have put myself on 16:8 IF diet and bg's have been between 4.2 and 4.8
I dont go into 3's but I dont go into 5's either unless after 1 hour of food.
My 30 day average on my meter is 4.8.

brettsza said:

Thank god I am not the only one thinking about dieting in a different way after coming off ND so its not bad....

Click to expand...

No I'm with you both on the same train of thought. In fact I am researching recipes even now to look forward to introducing in another 4 weeks.

I'm fortunate inasmuch as I took early retirement from a long-term career at 50, ran another couple of businesses until selling them this time last year and have now fully retired just short of 60. I have the luxury of time to prepare the daily meals for the family and especially make sure it's appropriate for my 7 year old son but reducing former levels of carb intake for my wife & I.

I'm 2/3rds of the way to my arbitrarily decided 14st target weight (although will still be classed as "overweight" for BMI purposes), but as long as bg & bp readings are kept as low as they appear to be on home monitoring and the a1c backs up these results, I intend to adopt a more steady weight loss programme that the drastic ND regime.