Newcastle diet starting Monday, done it once who gonna join me on my journey??

Steve50 said:

HI LBB

This is a particularly sensitive issue - as you say. I have found myself 'observing' others - I've even mentioned this in this thread.

As an exercise, next time you get a chance, sit down in a food court or somewhere where there are a range of food outlets - and notice the relative size of the customer in relation to what is being sold. It can be both amusing and educational. You may have already done this.

However, I would never argue for or against the availability of the food - or say anything to or about those who make the choices.

We do have to take responsibility for our own choices.

What I would like to see though is more people making the kind of choices that would encourage the outlets to meet that demand. Supermarkets now have a sugar free section - that has only come about by demand. From what I understand, vast amounts of sugar can be reduced from the products we buy - if there was a demand for producers to do so. We need to create that demand and use education to change minds.

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Which supermarkets have sugar free sections? I have seen a number of "Free From" sections", but those seem mainly gluten, wheat and lacto-based.

AndBreathe said:

I don't think one person on here in particular would dispute that carrying excess weight is a good thing for a number of troublesome conditions, including, but not exclusively diabetes.

In the US, anyone watching TV will see advertising for diabetes drugs and protocols all the time. So, I am assuming this young woman, and her father, will have seen at least some of the content I have. To be clear, where I struggle is is why you chose to say something at that time, in that circumstance, and to an extent why saying it to her was apparently abhorent, but saying it to her father was just fine. I doubt you walk up and down the street sporting a sandwich board with the same messages every day, so something must have precipitated it.

Whilst some overweight people are happy enough with their lot, I would state my feelings are that the vast majority would rather be slim, or at least within the healthy BMI range. If you were overweight prior to diagnosis, had you every tried to lose weight? It strikes me that some men are comfortable to carry some weight, but few women are. If losing and maintaining weight was simple there would be far, far fewer overweight people around.

And just to finish up. Did you ever consider this young girl could have an eating disorder, or another medical condition impacting on her weight and may be fighting her own battle and demons? Ask anyone who has taken systemic steroids for any length if time how "easy" it is to lose or even maintain a healthy weight.

I sincerely hope that as you move forward you find a suitable and sustainable eating regime because I can't imagine your inner messaging processes if your weight went up.

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@AndBreathe

I live in the US & I see the adverts on TV all the time. The one for Farxiga is particularly obnoxious for me. Dire Straits "Walk of life" is the background music to a bunch of happy smiling faces literally walking about in a park. What is implied is that diabetes is a "Walk in the park". This advert is horrendous and is about selling drugs not about making one aware of correcting a potential problem.What many don't consciously get is that an obese BMI puts the chances of getting T2 up 60 fold.

I have specifically pointed out that neither I nor did the 5 physicians I had seen over the previous 4 years made me aware of the connection between my growing BMI and the chance of my attaining T2DM.

In fact when I got my first full blood workup my internist, who had the info of an HbA1c of 6.5% in his hands, didn't recognize that I had T2DM! The INTERNIST didn't diagnose me as a T2! That was my US doctor, and the fact in my situation. So if my internist with blood work showing HbA1c at 6.5% & a fat guy stood in front of him can't diagnose T2DM what hope have we as a society? He thought I needed to see a back surgeon! We are bombarded with diabetes adverts yet a trained internist doctor can't diagnose T2 with blood work showing T2? Come on! It is because of this that I want to share my experience, that I fell thru the HCP support system of catching me pre-diabetes & failure to recognize T2DM too. Crazy.

I was obese at diagnosis but I prior to diagnosis couldn't find the tools to lose the weight. The real motivation came from the pain of the neuropathy.

What I find incredibly interesting in this discussion is I sense that bullets are being fired at myself the messenger of how bad T2DM is and no bullets being fired at BIG Pharma for not supplying the fix! When Ebola was raging in West Africa Big Phama did step up finally and find a fix of sorts. Diabetes is an epidemic. Sticking our heads in the sand will not make the problem disappear..

I have an interesting problem that anyone can chime in on. I know of a different person in their twenties who goes to my church and by looking at them I can see that the person is clinically obese. Applying that to the knowledge I learned this morning that being obese gives rise to 60 times more chances of becoming T2DM, what does you all do? Do we behave like the "Good Samaritan ?" Or does one walk away?

In truth I am the messenger I am not the disease.

I have already said how rude and inappropriate I think it is to give unsolicited advice to people about their health.

Now I need to add:

Frankly, if you feel the need to type 'in truth I am the messenger I am not the disease' into an Internet forum post, then I suggest very strongly that you are not the person to be talking to anyone about their risk of T2.

Far too emotive.
And melodramatic.
Relying on hyperbole rather than facts.
Likely to upset and distress your audience.

Besides, what does this 60x more likely stat actually mean? Have you investigated it? You know that there are far more fat people without T2 than with T2, don't you? 60x a fraction is still only a fraction albeit a larger fraction.

People bandy these stats around like they are tablets from Mount Sinai, but the (unmelodramatic) fact is that 'a 100% increase in risk of dying from falling down stairs' is still a pretty insignificant risk if only 0.015 % of people die falling down the stairs.

You are not a messenger. You are someone who has been lucky enough to find a diet that worked for you in the short term (it will be 10 yrs til you know if it works in the long term).

That doesn't qualify you to go out warning the obese of their T2 risks.
It does qualify you to speak from personal experience about your experience, but doing it to convince others that they should 'see the light' is a terrible idea.

I am cringing at the thought.

I watched the documentary film 'Fed Up' on the weekend. I realise there has been a deal of criticism about this film, the dramatic and emotional way it presents information (and in some cases - miss-information) but it did chime with my belief that 'market forces' and our education about food choices and healthy eating have a lot to do with what we have available in our supermarkets.

I still think that we can influence this. Governments and lobbyists aside - if we don't buy it - they wont sell it. Simple.

Of course, this too is an oversimplification. We are not going to convince large numbers in any population to 'ignore' the nutritional advice of their governments. But we can do some 'lobbying' of our own. For example, our Waitrose store collects customer feedback. I have (on more than one occasion) suggested that they consider labeling food 'Suitable for Diabetics' in the same way they label food for wheat intolerance or nut allergies.

One message I took away from the film was that large food corporations have taken the 'if you cant beat them - join them' strategy, and started to promote 'healthier' versions of their original products. So we are to believe that a product with reduced salt or sugar or fat is better for us than the original version of the same product. Surely we don't fall for that! - you might say. But so many do. The film promotes the idea that as a rule of thumb - if it's processed, it's probably not that good for you, regardless of the claims on the packaging.

I found the film on Netflix. Not necessarily recommending it - but if you live in America, you might like to see it. It probably has more relevance to your current politics and products.

Living-by-the-beach said:

@AndBreathe

I live in the US & I see the adverts on TV all the time. The one for Farxiga is particularly obnoxious for me. Dire Straits "Walk of life" is the background music to a bunch of happy smiling faces literally walking about in a park. What is implied is that diabetes is a "Walk in the park". This advert is horrendous and is about selling drugs not about making one aware of correcting a potential problem.What many don't consciously get is that an obese BMI puts the chances of getting T2 up 60 fold.

I have specifically pointed out that neither I nor did the 5 physicians I had seen over the previous 4 years made me aware of the connection between my growing BMI and the chance of my attaining T2DM.

In fact when I got my first full blood workup my internist, who had the info of an HbA1c of 6.5% in his hands, didn't recognize that I had T2DM! The INTERNIST didn't diagnose me as a T2! That was my US doctor, and the fact in my situation. So if my internist with blood work showing HbA1c at 6.5% & a fat guy stood in front of him can't diagnose T2DM what hope have we as a society? He thought I needed to see a back surgeon! We are bombarded with diabetes adverts yet a trained internist doctor can't diagnose T2 with blood work showing T2? Come on! It is because of this that I want to share my experience, that I fell thru the HCP support system of catching me pre-diabetes & failure to recognize T2DM too. Crazy.

I was obese at diagnosis but I prior to diagnosis couldn't find the tools to lose the weight. The real motivation came from the pain of the neuropathy.

What I find incredibly interesting in this discussion is I sense that bullets are being fired at myself the messenger of how bad T2DM is and no bullets being fired at BIG Pharma for not supplying the fix! When Ebola was raging in West Africa Big Phama did step up finally and find a fix of sorts. Diabetes is an epidemic. Sticking our heads in the sand will not make the problem disappear..

I have an interesting problem that anyone can chime in on. I know of a different person in their twenties who goes to my church and by looking at them I can see that the person is clinically obese. Applying that to the knowledge I learned this morning that being obese gives rise to 60 times more chances of becoming T2DM, what does you all do? Do we behave like the "Good Samaritan ?" Or does one walk away?

In truth I am the messenger I am not the disease.

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This is my last comment on this topic because I feel I am wasting my time. It sounds as if we will never agree on your evangelical approach to this young woman’s condition.

I’m not going to touch on the competency of your multifarious advisors or their obligation to point out the health problems associated with obesity. We all know that obesity is one of those “generally bad” situations, because it increases the individual’s potential to suffer from any or all of the following, and of course the list is not exhaustive:

Diabetes
Cardiovascular Disease
Cancer
Depression
Reproduction
Respiratory Disease
Memory, & Cognitive Function
Musculoskeletal Disorders
Other Conditions
Mortality

If they had highlighted any of those things, can you honestly say, hand on heart, you would have immediately gone and lost weight?

Of course, I can’t answer that for you, but for most people, their response might have been to nod to their physician and say they’d lose weight, then toddle off back to their normal day-to-day lives. Maybe try for a few days, but at the first encounter with potato chips, ice cream, or the individual’s particular “fix”, revert to their previous norm.

Actually, you have highlighted the key to all of this yourself, when you said, “…. I was obese at diagnosis but I prior to diagnosis couldn't find the tools to lose the weight. The real motivation came from the pain of the neuropathy…..”

The absolute truth is that each individual needs their own motivation to change their lives. That can be a significant health diagnosis. It could be the breakdown of a relationship. It could be perceived discriminatory blockers in a career situation. It doesn’t matter what that trigger point is, but it’s individual, and unlikely to be a “this bad thing might happen in the future” sort of thing.

How many people do we see arrive on this site, saying they have been told to lose weight, but they just know they can’t because they’ve been trying for years, if not forever? How many smokers do you know who would love to give up, but just can’t? It’s amazing how many former smokers who “gave up, just like that” you will find in cardiac or respiratory units, having suffered the consequences of their previous bad habits.

Those individuals aren’t necessarily weak. They were simply never quite motivated enough to stick with it when the tricky times came along. Suddenly the “Why should I stick with this?” question had a clear answer, with a serious potential consequence.

So, bottom line is, this young woman needs to find her own trigger point.

Maybe she never will. Maybe something bad will befall her, but she may be one of the many, many obese people who seem to survive and function well, if physiologically sub-optimally.

I’m sure your desire that she doesn’t experience what you have is genuine, but in this world, we can’t rescue everyone, and for most people, evangelism is a turn-off.

Change is difficult. Change to a lifetime’s habits and way of living is particularly difficult because it rarely affects just the one person. Making a lifetime change to a way of eating affects the whole family – whether that’s because their lifestyle will also change by default, or because the person changing will change within the family dynamic as they are eating and living differently to the others. Clearly, those consequences have the potential to derail the best of intentions unless the person changing has the clear answer to the “why should I?” question – and believes it.

A number of people have commented on my weight loss now. I tell them it was a side effect of what I was really trying to achieve - T2 reversal. I'm not sure if they are really interested - but very few have wanted to know any more. T2 is regarded by my cohort as either a genetic or self inflicted condition. Of course family are happy for me - but friends are just being polite and sociable. It is really not a conversation people want to have.

I noticed today that SupeDrug are stocking LighterLife 5:2 products.

Has anyone used these? Does anyone have any feedback?

http://www.lighterlifefast.com/

Steve50 said:

I noticed today that SupeDrug are stocking LighterLife 5:2 products.

Has anyone used these? Does anyone have any feedback?

http://www.lighterlifefast.com/

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I haven't tried these but I have bought Superdrug's own meal replacement powder/shakes. The vanilla in the tin is fine but the box of 10 caramel shakes is far too sweet even for me and I have a sweet tooth. I have some banana as well but haven't tried that yet. They are very reasonably priced and have no artificial colour or flavouring.

Thanks AH

Ding, Ding, Round 2, That was certainly an interesting 20 or so posts, enjoyed that

Hi @Pipp
How are you doing.
sorry to ask you on here on the thread, was just curious.
Did you manage to get through the second phase of nd by any chance.

Pipp said:

Hello @brettsza. Thank you for asking. There have been so many ND threads recently that I think some of us have got a bit lost.

Not sure what you mean 'second phase ND'? I recently embarked on a VLCD of 800 - 1000 calories a day, so although I was posting on a ND thread, not strictly following ND protocol. I had thought about using just meal replacement products, but having had controlled BG for 3+ years the urgency is not to 'reverse' but to prevent any jeopardising that through creeping weight gain. I did VLCD for just over 3 weeks, losing 9kg in the process. Since then I have regained 2kg, not necessarily through increased calories, which have been around 1500, rather more likely to be due to illness, need for steroids, inactivity, and consuming more fat in the form of too much yogurt and cream. Not too concerned, as apart from when I had steroids for allergy and then antiviral meds BG readings have been in range 5.0 to 5.7.

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Still ... Good figures, Pipp, wish I was getting them,

Pipp said:

Yes, thank you, @Wildrover
I think the most important thing is to get good BG control.
Of course, weight management is important to avoid going back across the personal fat threshold, but sometimes you can try to attain the impossible and set yourself up for failure and disillusionment. Obviously it is not goid for me to remain heavy, particularly as I get older, but I have still lost over a quarter of my total start weight in 2011. So have to be content with what I have achieved in terms of BG control and weight loss. Still a work in progress on the weight, but not urgent.

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My sentiments exactly, could not have put it better, have followed your posts and kinda know the history, I am on the last week of the NP, and your above post mirrors me perfectly, diagnosed 4-5 years ago and thought !!! T2 !!! Never gave it a second thought, and as I've said before, Stumbled onto this thread, and WOW, "woke up and smell the coffee" learnt a vast amount from all you guys, thought maybe that I could be lucky enough to reverse by starting the ND plan, but .... Not to be have lose just over 2 stone AND BG figures down from 13s to 20s to 6s -7s, seen a 5.7 twice, but!!, am happy with my lot cos as you say, the figures are more stable, I am aware of them and i now have more control of them, and understand portion control, So onwards and upwards So Pipp, enjoy, be happy

That's marvellous though @Wildrover .
Great change in numbers.

What is your plan for reintroducing food?
(Sorry if you have already said, but I've just popped back to this thread to read the latest ones.)

Brunneria said:

That's marvellous though @Wildrover .
Great change in numbers.

What is your plan for reintroducing food?
(Sorry if you have already said, but I've just popped back to this thread to read the latest ones.)

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Hi Brunneria, going to follow @steve, @brettza and @Rob, as they seem to have a handle on it, solids have me on the loo as the system can't take it Main lesson is "live by my meter" and portion control, a phone call this morning from my son, his best friends father at 54 was admitted to hospital as a T2 and in a Diabetic coma and has just died, Sad. and all through lack of knowledge about this curse of diabetes, This is why this thread and this site AND the great people on it is so good, knowledge is power