Newspaper Article What Do People Think?

lucylocket61 said:

Interesting - how do you know its gone from there? Is there a way of finding out that is readily available?

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You need body composition scales. They tell you what your visceral fat level is, plus body weight, percentage of water, muscle mass and so on.

lucylocket61 said:

I am fortunate enough to still be able to have some homemade wholemeal bread

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Hmmmmm

Bluetit1802 said:

Have you read how many carbs he was eating? A HUGE, HUGE amount.

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Agree. He was carb loading presumably on advice of sports nutritionists and despite all that rowing was still struggling to keep his belly in check (yes I know he is fit and not as fat as the stereotypical type 2) but if you are genetically inclined to store fat in the wrong area when you exceed your individual level of carb tolerance then you will eventually get metabolic problems. Also Roy Taylor had normal weight type 2 s in his initial experiment who found that they had to drop their visceral fat further to reverse their diabetes.

DavidGrahamJones said:

No doubt in my mind that a lot of people will be better off with lower carbs and 12 weeks at 800 cals a day will help them some to lose weight and from my personal experience will lead to much better BG control, my graphs from my Freestyle Libre are exemplary. To suggest it's a complete cure would be misleading. I've only ever increased my calorie intake from 800 to about 1200 with most of that 400 extra being protein, but in my case it's enough to start mg BG spiking a bit.

I wish that people's expectations are handled better because there could be some disappointment which could lead to this approach being ignored in the future.

Something none of this hype seems to cover is the state of the pancreas in the first place, the pancreas might produce normal amounts of insulin, as does mine (3 c-peptide tests in last 2 years), but what about the pancreatic beta cells which are responsible for producing insulin. Also, as there are tests for insulin resistance, I'd love to see before and after.

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I agree.
I think the search for THE holy grail of diabetes reversal is doomed to failure whatever the method under study ( diet a, diet b, medication x, medication y, this or that wonderfood etc etc etc) they all fail to acknowledgs that virtually all methods at gaining control / remission / reversal or whatever else we want to call it will work well for some while at the same time abjectly failing others

NicoleC1971 said:

Agree. He was carb loading presumably on advice of sports nutritionists and despite all that rowing was still struggling to keep his belly in check (yes I know he is fit and not as fat as the stereotypical type 2) but if you are genetically inclined to store fat in the wrong area when you exceed your individual level of carb tolerance then you will eventually get metabolic problems. Also Roy Taylor had normal weight type 2 s in his initial experiment who found that they had to drop their visceral fat further to reverse their diabetes.

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Strangely enough, and despite all the many medicals he had, it was his wife who originally diagnosed him. (she is a doctor)

lucylocket61 said:

back off you!!! I am not giving up my precious slice of bread a day!!!

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I'm still trying the toasted frozen bread, not every day, but it's worth a try I reckon.

lucylocket61 said:

Interesting - how do you know its gone from there? Is there a way of finding out that is readily available?

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I'm using a combination of old & new technology. The new is a set of these:-

https://tanita.eu/products/body-composition-monitors/bc-601

So combination of transducers zapping via arms and feet, it can estimate limb and core resistance and translate to fat & muscle. Then the old is a mirror, a belt and a few pinches. Which were much cheaper. Neat thing about those scales is they log to an SD card in a simple format to view either in Tanita's app, or any old spreadsheet. I use them once a day on waking and now got 7 months of data to look at trends, and see if diet changes do the right thing. Been handy to check muscle and tweak protein intake & exercise accordingly.

So that showed me I'd lost 12-15kg and '5' off visceral fat, dropping from 12.8 to 8. Tanita rates that on a scale of 1-59, with 1-12 being low/healthy. But I've also lost 2 notches off my belt and can see my 6-pack re-emerging. Weight loss has slowed, but the mirror's showing a more defined 'me' and the phlebotomist complemented my easy-access veins, which should mean subcutaneous fat is now dropping because they're more visible.

(and not high blood pressure cos I check that as well )

I've always been led to believe that scales that measure your visceral fat depend on how much liquid (water) you have in your body. So if you want a better visceral fat maker have a lot to drink first.

carol43 said:

I've always been led to believe that scales that measure your visceral fat depend on how much liquid (water) you have in your body. So if you want a better visceral fat maker have a lot to drink first.

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I didn't know that, but you may have a point. My visceral fat changes from day to day - mostly 6, often 7, sometimes 5, although my body weight is stable. I must make a note of how much I have drunk before weighing.

Tannith said:

I weigh myself most days to check that the weight isn't creeping back. The last thing I want is my T2 back. I'd hate to be condemned to a lifetime of low carbing and eating high fat to make up the missing calories. I think saturated fat is particularly unsuitable for me as I believe it is bad for my cardiovascular system and would do me as much harm as the high blood sugars would have done if I had eaten carbs instead. Incidentally , far from putting on weight I have actually lost a couple of pounds more since I finished Newcastle 6 months ago.

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I love being "condemned to a lifetime of low carbing and eating high fat," and if T2 was "the last thing" I wanted then I would be very happy indeed. T2 is one of the least of my worries compared to the dozen or so other medical conditions I live with. And after 30 years of yo-yo dieting only to gain weight, I thank the universe every day that I heard about LCHF. It allows me to start undoing the emotional and physical damage done by every other weight management approach, all of which except bariatric surgery I tried, and none of which worked.

zand said:

Well there's not much fat in the ND so I guess Prof Taylor does advocate low fat.

I see low calorie diets as a kind of punishment for T2s because they are fat. I see low carb high fat diets as nurturing T2s by giving them the nutrition they need. I know which of the two I prefer.

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This is a great comment! The science is now clear - some T2s at diagnosis are not fat. About 5% IIRC. The rest of us who were overweight or obese at diagnosis are not necessarily fully responsible for being in that state. (Yes, I take responsibility for my choices (now) and am working on losing weight).

IMO, a compelling argument can be made for the role of genes in contributing to the development of obesity and T2. Half of my extended family has T2 & quite a few have T1 as well. My own DN said the other day that to a great extent I didn't stand a chance of dodging it. Here's some further info about the hypothesis, with links to research about it:

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/47101698.php

I get tired of all the fat-bashing in the world, and envy people whose emotional issues, and results in the genetic lottery, are not visible for all to see. They can hide their issues most of the time. Fat-bashing made it harder, not easier, for me to start and continue this journey towards health.

Low calorie diets that do not include adequate fats and protein are miserable long term for almost everyone. That's just a fact. When I've gone through phases of not doing LCHF, I have gone to the other extreme and had a staple diet of junk food. Pressuring people about what they eat can contribute to terrible outcomes. I believe it is better to give them info, offer support, then leave them to decide for themselves.

carol43 said:

I've always been led to believe that scales that measure your visceral fat depend on how much liquid (water) you have in your body. So if you want a better visceral fat maker have a lot to drink first.

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I'd not heard that, but there's an element of truth. Or a compound. They work by measuring the body's resistance between the electrodes. Electricity likes to take the path of least resistance, so if the scales (or hand-held) meter just have electrodes for feet, it'll measure the path up one limb and down the other and then have to extrapolate from there. Mine should be more accurate as it's got 2 electrodes per foot & hand. Body fluid has a relatively low resistance compared to fat because to maximise lipid storage, it's dehydrogenated and muscle conducts better.

Mine also show me that my water percentage has gone from 50% to 58%, so it being summer, I guess I should go outside and dehydrate to cheat. It's been interesting to see that given a diet theory (myth?) that rapid weight loss means you're just losing water. I think my results are showing me a healthy trend and hydration.

I have noticed that fat readings can vary a lot depending on when I take the readings, ie if it's straight out of the shower and I'm still a bit damp, it reads lower than when I've dried out more. So I make sure hands & feet are clean and dry to keep readings consistent. And it's the trends I'm more interested in, ie weight & fat loss, but not muscle or water. One of the studies mentioned in another post used the 'pro' versions of my scales and another vendors, and calibrated them against scans and caliper measurements. Interestingly, they mentioned Tanita may overestimate fat percentage. Which for me is no bad thing as I'm still working on lowering those.

They've been a very useful tool for monitoring my progress. I'm still not sure about metabolic age. So far, I've lost 20yrs, and hoping this doesn't mean going back to school, or getting carded buying booze.

Jenny15 said:

I love being "condemned to a lifetime of low carbing and eating high fat," and if T2 was "the last thing" I wanted then I would be very happy indeed. T2 is one of the least of my worries compared to the dozen or so other medical conditions I live with. And after 30 years of yo-yo dieting only to gain weight, I thank the universe every day that I heard about LCHF. It allows me to start undoing the emotional and physical damage done by every other weight management approach, all of which except bariatric surgery I tried, and none of which worked.

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Well said, and I think a lot of people underestimate the psychology. So whether that's the incredibly negative 'fat shaming', or food shaming, and making people feel guilty about what they're eating. Especially when that may sometimes be linked to bad science, ie a lot of the FUD around cholesterols. As a blue oyster once said, don't fear the butter. But all good things in moderation.

This is also the beauty of LCHF. I can enjoy an omlette again, especially if I hold the chips, or just replace them with slices of mixed peppers. Far more enjoyable to eat than a sickly strawberry flavored diet shake.. And it's great that the staff here and others are getting the message across to the medical community and public. It might upset Nestle, but the junk food industry has a lot to answer for.

Stupid Daily Wail does not discriminate between cure and remission. I was always told as a lad not to believe all of what I read in the news papers I have since ammended that to do not believe anything you read in the daily mail.

JohnEGreen said:

Stupid Daily Wail does not discriminate between cure and remission. I was always told as a lad not to believe all of what I read in the news papers I have since ammended that to do not believe anything you read in the daily mail.

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Hitler's favourite newspaper I believe. Having said that they have had some good campaigns; but, even behind those, there seems to be a strategy of stirring up outrage just to sell papers.