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Not a good news for keto according to this new study.

Veryanxious said:
I dont have much details about this new study. If anyone has more info on it please share.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/oby.22468
Would like to here your thoughts as well.
Click to expand...
Not being on a LCHF diet at any stage in my life, I can truly state that I have no axe to grind. My immediate response however is that 17 (and all men at that) is a farcical example of a fair test. There must be many people on this forum, who have been on a LCHF diet for many years and show no signs of Cholesterol or lipid problems. Why did they publish this at such an early stage in research? It should be valid research, but in this case I would put my thumb to my nose and wiggle my fingers.

Edited as an afterthought: Your initial sentence says it all!
 
Switching to the KD was associated with increased cholesterol and inflammatory markers, decreased triglycerides, and decreased insulin‐mediated antilipolysis. Glucose homeostasis parameters were diet dependent and test meal dependent.

I counter the cholesterol, inflammatory markers and insulin stopping lipolysis through intermittent fasting. 18:6.

I think keto, exercise and fasting is the winner.
 
Veryanxious said:
I dont have much details about this new study. If anyone has more info on it please share.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/oby.22468
Would like to here your thoughts as well.
Click to expand...

My thoughts on this study:

- There is not enough information on that link for any of us to have a clue what was actually going on

- 17 men on 50% carb diet for 4 weeks, and then switching to 5% carb for the next 4 weeks? Not enough people. Too short, and goodness, it would take me more than 4 weeks of keto to recover from how dreadful I would feel after 4 weeks of all that carb.

- here is a link to an article on NuSi describing the design issues and disagreements the organisation encountered.
https://www.wired.com/story/how-a-dollar40-million-nutrition-science-crusade-fell-apart/

- ‘isocalorific’ diets were used. An isocalorific diet is a diet where the fat, protein and carb percentages are strictly controlled, but what those percentages are made up of, is not important. So basically you can eat processed rubbish, but so long as it fits your macros, you think you are doing great. Milk chocolate? Salad? Donut? Steak? Weetabix? Vegan cheese? Banana milkshake? Polyunsaturated veg oil? Lard? Coconut butter? Chicken nuggets? Huge salads? Processed tinned bean salads? Turkey Twizzlers? Organic shoulder of lamb? Battered fish, deepfried in soya oil?
So long as the macro quotas are met, you can eat what you like.

My experience:

- so long as I avoid the gluten and carbs that cause my autoimmune inflammatory issues and so long as I eat minimal carbs, then my inflammation is massively reduced. My cholesterol is great. My blood glucose is under control. I feel well. None of those would be the case on a 50% carb diet. I know this because adding carbs to my diet makes me feel progressively more grotty the more carbs I eat.
 
Pretty much gonna echo everyone else, 4 weeks is not at all going to be long enough to get fat adapted and going from a relatively high carb load to low is going to do all sorts of chaotic things to the body. Kind of getting sick of them using people that have not previously been on keto nor have metabolic conditions that facilitate the usage of keto. I think they are still grasping at straws sometimes to really throw a spanner in the whole WOE. I will admit I would LOVE a full long term study on its effects but I am not waiting for one as permission to eat this way. I just look at my meter being at normal BGL and see the pounds falling off to know that I am doing something right for me.
 
I understand the issues posted above about the study. However, my personal experience after changing to a keto Dr Bernstein diet immediately after being diagnosed with diabetes, is that I found myself three months later with a total cholesterol of 10 mmol/L, high inflammation markers and even though I was eating less than 30 g of carbohydrates a day, I had almost zero ketones on my blood ketone monitor on waking and I was putting on abdominal fat. After an enormous battle with my diabetes specialist (who would only read medical articles referenced through the Lancet) and who always wanted me on insulin with my low c-peptide (even now though my blood sugars were now impaired rather than diabetic) and now statins, I was given another 3 months grace. I found that through counting my cholesterol (200 mg a day maximum) and intermittent fasting that I managed to normalise the changes. I'm happy to say that my diabetes specialist is now supporting my efforts.

What do I think is going on here? I think I'm thin type 2 rather than type 1 which I was diagnosed as. Thin type 2's can't generate enough new fat cells, which causes sugar to be dumped into the bloodstream, which switches off fat burning even on a keto diet. Dr Fung's books suggest intermittent fasting is the key and anyway, he explains the process much better than I have. So my experience could be unique to thin type 2's or whatever type of diabetes I am (there are supposed to be over 40 types) and certainly not everyone, particularly after reading the comments above.
 
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Brunneria said:
My thoughts on this study:

- There is not enough information on that link for any of us to have a clue what was actually going on

- 17 men on 50% carb diet for 4 weeks, and then switching to 5% carb for the next 4 weeks? Not enough people. Too short, and goodness, it would take me more than 4 weeks of keto to recover from how dreadful I would feel after 4 weeks of all that carb.

- here is a link to an article on NuSi describing the design issues and disagreements the organisation encountered.
https://www.wired.com/story/how-a-dollar40-million-nutrition-science-crusade-fell-apart/

- ‘isocalorific’ diets were used. An isocalorific diet is a diet where the fat, protein and carb percentages are strictly controlled, but what those percentages are made up of, is not important. So basically you can eat processed rubbish, but so long as it fits your macros, you think you are doing great. Milk chocolate? Salad? Donut? Steak? Weetabix? Vegan cheese? Banana milkshake? Polyunsaturated veg oil? Lard? Coconut butter? Chicken nuggets? Huge salads? Processed tinned bean salads? Turkey Twizzlers? Organic shoulder of lamb? Battered fish, deepfried in soya oil?
So long as the macro quotas are met, you can eat what you like.

My experience:

- so long as I avoid the gluten and carbs that cause my autoimmune inflammatory issues and so long as I eat minimal carbs, then my inflammation is massively reduced. My cholesterol is great. My blood glucose is under control. I feel well. None of those would be the case on a 50% carb diet. I know this because adding carbs to my diet makes me feel progressively more grotty the more carbs I eat.
Click to expand...
Didn't know what isocalorifi diet was, it does look like study is unfinished and not much info was given. Thanks for the info.
 
ert said:
I understand the issues posted above about the study. However, my personal experience after changing to a keto Dr Bernstein diet immediately after being diagnosed with diabetes, is that I found myself three months later with a total cholesterol of 10 mmol/L, high inflammation markers and even though I was eating less than 30 g of carbohydrates a day, I had almost zero ketones on my blood ketone monitor on waking and I was putting on abdominal fat. After an enormous battle with my diabetes specialist (who would only read medical articles referenced through the Lancet) and who always wanted me on insulin with my low c-peptide (even now though my blood sugars were now impaired rather than diabetic) and now statins, I was given another 3 months grace. I found that through counting my cholesterol (200 mg a day maximum) and intermittent fasting that I managed to normalise the changes. I'm happy to say that my diabetes specialist is now supporting my efforts.

What do I think is going on here? I think I'm thin type 2 rather than type 1 which I was diagnosed as. Thin type 2's can't generate enough new fat cells, which causes sugar to be dumped into the bloodstream, which switches off fat burning even on a keto diet. Dr Fung's books suggest intermittent fasting is the key and anyway, he explains the process much better than I have. So my experience could be unique to thin type 2's or whatever type of diabetes I am (there are supposed to be over 40 types) and certainly not everyone, particularly after reading the comments above.
Click to expand...
I have similar schedule as yours keto with intermittent fasting. Works for me as well.
 
Thanks for posting. It is disappointing to see NuSI (Gary Taubes) confounded by this flawed study when their original intent was to improve the quality of this type of research.
Keto works better than guestim -ation of my insulin dose vs. carbs but does not solve things completely because my body has no way to balance its sugars naturally and it is surprising just how many things upset the applecart! (infection, exercise, hormones and uninhibited glucago......
 
I was put on statins for high cholesterol at the same time my diabetes was diagnosed and was put on LCHF diet. My cholesterol has remained in the satisfactory range. In my case the high cholesterol came before the low carbs.
 
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