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- Thread starter MING
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Useless Pretty Boy said:
You're missing the point here. You don't need to cut your calories to lose weight. I've lost 6lbs in less than 3weeks, and DO feel great - but I've not cut my calorie intake.
IT IS A MYTH that the only way to lose weight is by caloric deficit.
[Edit: In fact, nothing you say in that post makes ANY sense - you're not helping].
Useless Pretty Boy
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Um...ok. Be that your opinion as it may. I'm simply trying to help when help has been asked for. So long as Ming values whatever input I make, then I feel fine contributing. I hope I've not been unclear in anything I've written. If anything needs clarification, I'd be happy to do so.
Mathematically speaking a caloric deficit is the only way to lose fat. So strictly speaking, what you say is true, a person can indeed lose weight in other ways. Cutting out all carbs will recuce your ability to retain water in your muscles, so that'll lose weight... and quickly, I might add. But it won't be losing weight in what we think of as the traditional sense. Boxers, wrestlers and body builders all use such a method in order to 'make weight' for a competition. They then have about three huge carb meals and suddenly regain all their previous strength and size.
Alternatively, a reduction of exercise will lose muscle mass. Muscle being heavier than fat, you could cut 'weight' quicker that way without dieting as such.
And to be clear, a 'caloric defecit' is not only brought around by reduced calorie intake, but also by additional caloric expenditure. Vis a vis additional exercise.
While carb reduction is a sensible move for a diabetic, and I do it myself, obliterating starch carbs from your diet will not work for everyone. People's bodies all work differently. I've been able to get away with being thin and healthy my whole adult life simply by lifting weights regularly - much to the vast annoyance of my fiancee who also needs to watch her fat intake (which she finds difficult to burn off) and do some cardio too.
My point is that Ming is here, looking for help with the fact that her husband is struggling with a low carb diet. I think she deserves a little more help that a blithe and glib comment about a 'kick up the ass' and telling her that her man simply isn't trying hard enough.
If a man walks into a doctors with a headache. It could be anything from being short sighted or having a caffeine intolerance all the way up to having a tumour. There are several possibilities. You're 'diagnosing' one way, while I'm pointing out that it would be something very different. But then there's absolutely no reason both of us can't be wrong at the same time. :mrgreen:
You come to a peer support group, rather than going to an expert and the best you can hope for is whatever worked for the person giving you advice at this exact moment. A possibility to try. Nothing more definitive than that. I'm trying to put forth the idea that if she keeps trying this diet and it never starts to produce the effects she's hoping for, it would perhaps be wise to ease up and not be so stringent. Then again, he might come through the end of it and feel just great in a week or two.
Whatever happpens and whatever Ming tries, I hope her husband feels better soon. Diabetes is bad enough to live with without having to feel constantly tired and grouchy too.
:mrgreen: I'm old and wise ( :lol: ) enough to sift through info , and I think if it takes other people time and effort then I can afford to leave him go a bit longer this way. And apart from anything else, we must be healthier eating this way than we were before, so it's cool :mrgreen:
He is just an extra difficult patient , that's all ! His BS is coming down though, with occasional spikes.
He is just an extra difficult patient , that's all ! His BS is coming down though, with occasional spikes.
hanadr
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Ming
i have been married to my T1 husband for 38 years. In that time, he's developed ALL the possible complications, because he didn't keep good control. Mind you the hospital didn't encourage it either. It's taken imminent kidney failure to wake him up.
The kidneys are actually improving and his eyes too. His psoriasis( not a diabetic phenomenon) is better than it was and foot ulcers have healed. Charcot feet are irreparable.
I nagged 30 years ago and 20 and 10 and it's been about the last 2 that things have improved.
Hana
i have been married to my T1 husband for 38 years. In that time, he's developed ALL the possible complications, because he didn't keep good control. Mind you the hospital didn't encourage it either. It's taken imminent kidney failure to wake him up.
The kidneys are actually improving and his eyes too. His psoriasis( not a diabetic phenomenon) is better than it was and foot ulcers have healed. Charcot feet are irreparable.
I nagged 30 years ago and 20 and 10 and it's been about the last 2 that things have improved.
Hana
Ming - I went throught the same thing a few years back but for me at least it was a passing phase.
I've found a great low carb breakfast 'cereal', which gives you lots of fibre, is easy to make from 2 or 3 parts toasted soy bran to one part ground almonds, some crushed nuts and a smidgen of wheat germ. All quite cheap at holland and Barratt, but almonds better from supermarkets. Needs a dash of salt and sweetener. Eat cold with milk or soy milk like meusli, or microwave with plenty milk for 3 minutes.
60g for breakfast does wonders for constipation, without the carbs that go with porridge.
I've found a great low carb breakfast 'cereal', which gives you lots of fibre, is easy to make from 2 or 3 parts toasted soy bran to one part ground almonds, some crushed nuts and a smidgen of wheat germ. All quite cheap at holland and Barratt, but almonds better from supermarkets. Needs a dash of salt and sweetener. Eat cold with milk or soy milk like meusli, or microwave with plenty milk for 3 minutes.
60g for breakfast does wonders for constipation, without the carbs that go with porridge.
UPB
sorry hunny, but you really, really, really should read 'The Diet Delusion' by Gary Taubes. Calorie restriction leads to hunger and metabolic slowdown not weight loss (long term).
Also, try googling 'hyperlipid' and read some of the posts, its an eye opener!
Cheers
Foxy
sorry hunny, but you really, really, really should read 'The Diet Delusion' by Gary Taubes. Calorie restriction leads to hunger and metabolic slowdown not weight loss (long term).
Also, try googling 'hyperlipid' and read some of the posts, its an eye opener!
Cheers
Foxy
AliB
Well-Known Member
Useless Pretty Boy said:
Mathematically speaking that may be true, but thermodynamically speaking (which is how the body works) it isn't.
It comes back to the old adage - it's not the amount you eat, but what you eat that is the key. The body burns fat far more efficiently and in the long-term than carbs which is a short-term 'fight or flight' need response.
If you ate 4000 calories a day in carbs, you would gain weight - if you ate 4000 calories a day in good quality protein, fats, fruit and veggies then you are more likely to lose weight because these foods supply a better energy source for the body. If you keep running on short-term energy all the time that is when blood sugar imbalances start to set in as the body is not designed to work like that.
Athlete's will stock up on carbs before a race in order to give themselves a good store of short-term energy reserves but although the accepted way, it is not necessarily the best way (low-fat diets have become the accepted way, but that isn't the best way either!).
Have a read of the following article - it is quite an eye-opener.
http://stanford.wellsphere.com/weight-l ... etes/94841
:mrgreen: Ooooh I didnt mean to start a war .
He is not starving, he's eating like a horse. He's just being VERY DIFFICULT which he is VERY GOOD AT ! :twisted: Last night it was "My life is ruined ! Things will never be the same again ! I can't go on like this !" :mrgreen:
And I'm fedup because I had a stock of food in for emergencies (flu/strikes/illness, because we live remote) and had to give it all away. Now what on earth do I stock up on ? We are living on fresh greens and salads. I just got a lovely breadmaker... I hardly eat any bread, it was for him. So all in all, it is a time of whines ! :mrgreen:
He is not starving, he's eating like a horse. He's just being VERY DIFFICULT which he is VERY GOOD AT ! :twisted: Last night it was "My life is ruined ! Things will never be the same again ! I can't go on like this !" :mrgreen:
And I'm fedup because I had a stock of food in for emergencies (flu/strikes/illness, because we live remote) and had to give it all away. Now what on earth do I stock up on ? We are living on fresh greens and salads. I just got a lovely breadmaker... I hardly eat any bread, it was for him. So all in all, it is a time of whines ! :mrgreen:
AliB
Well-Known Member
Don't worry Ming - we've all been there and bought the T-shirt! I don't suppose there are many of us who haven't been through the 'why me' and denial thing for a while at some point.
The thing is that you (and he) have come to the right place for sensible help and support. I wish I had known 12 years ago what I know now. Come to that I wish I had known 20 years ago what I know now - I might just have prevented myself from becoming Diabetic in the first place!
The stupid thing is that I did know at least some of it, but it still didn't stop me wallowing in self-pity.
What has really kicked me into touch is the final realisation that this carb-ridden 'normal', generally accepted as 'beneficial' and 'optimum', supported and promoted by 'the powers that be', Western Diet is actually damaging everybody.
That has had more effect on me than anything and instead of feeling sorry for myself, I now feel sorry for everyone else who is trapped in the 'treadmill' and who have been quietly and insidiously lulled and 'mugged' into thinking that they are doing the 'right' thing.
Did you read that link I put on my last post? It is a real eye-opener. I think it is so good I will post it as a new thread for any who may have missed it.
Your husband needs to try and look at this as a positive thing. It now gives him the opportunity to throw off the years of being 'mugged' and finally turn his life around and get his health back. For that matter, it gives YOU the opportunity to join him. Ok, so you may not be Diabetic now, but if, as you say, you have a very sweet tooth, then it may well only be a matter of time.
Do you have any health issues? Weight gain? Lack of energy? Fatigue? Arthritic conditions? Digestive issues? Etc., etc.
If your body has the ability to handle sugars and carbs then you are very fortunate indeed - most people are affected by it sooner or later.
The thing is that you (and he) have come to the right place for sensible help and support. I wish I had known 12 years ago what I know now. Come to that I wish I had known 20 years ago what I know now - I might just have prevented myself from becoming Diabetic in the first place!
The stupid thing is that I did know at least some of it, but it still didn't stop me wallowing in self-pity.
What has really kicked me into touch is the final realisation that this carb-ridden 'normal', generally accepted as 'beneficial' and 'optimum', supported and promoted by 'the powers that be', Western Diet is actually damaging everybody.
That has had more effect on me than anything and instead of feeling sorry for myself, I now feel sorry for everyone else who is trapped in the 'treadmill' and who have been quietly and insidiously lulled and 'mugged' into thinking that they are doing the 'right' thing.
Did you read that link I put on my last post? It is a real eye-opener. I think it is so good I will post it as a new thread for any who may have missed it.
Your husband needs to try and look at this as a positive thing. It now gives him the opportunity to throw off the years of being 'mugged' and finally turn his life around and get his health back. For that matter, it gives YOU the opportunity to join him. Ok, so you may not be Diabetic now, but if, as you say, you have a very sweet tooth, then it may well only be a matter of time.
Do you have any health issues? Weight gain? Lack of energy? Fatigue? Arthritic conditions? Digestive issues? Etc., etc.
If your body has the ability to handle sugars and carbs then you are very fortunate indeed - most people are affected by it sooner or later.
hanadr
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It would all be so simple if we did work on the calories in: calories out principle, but we don't. At some level, we MUST obey the laws of thermodynamics, but it's not the simple obvious one. :twisted:
Read "The diet deception" by Gary Taubes.
Read "The diet deception" by Gary Taubes.
AliB
Well-Known Member
I am convinced that ME can be related to diet. Yes, often it will take some kind of stress to trigger it, but I am sure it comes back to food one way or another.
I developed fatigue at the age of 15 after a relatively healthy and active childhood. I did have a tendency to childhood coughs and sniffles and now believe that the main trigger for that was being given antibiotics as a small child.
Once you have had one lot you then become enslaved to them because they wipe out the good bacteria and leave your body much more vulnerable to further infections. The irony is that most childhood illnesses will recover perfectly well on their own and just as quickly, as the Medical Profession have now realised. They no longer offer them for certain things, but back then they were dished out like sweeties for everything. I don't blame my Mum. Like everyone else she believed that the Medical Profession were there for our benefit!
Fleming said at least two things when he instigated the use of Penecillin. One was that people should take yoghurt during and after its use. The other was that indiscriminate use of them should be avoided - both of which were completely ignored. Now, of course, as a result we have the growing and very worrying scenario of microbes that have become resistant to the drugs and cannot be controlled.
Except for a very, and all too brief window about 25 years ago (when I was put on a low-carb diet by a very wise Naturopath) I don't remember what it is like to jump out of bed in the morning, bright and alert and ready to face the day. I have been dragging myself (and my weight) around all my adult life like a noose and I don't want to be in that place any more.
Already my energy is improving. I still have a way to go, but I am getting there and I know I am on the right track. Now if only I could let go of the day and get to bed earlier (during the evening of the same day I woke up would be a start!), I am sure that would make a big difference..........
I developed fatigue at the age of 15 after a relatively healthy and active childhood. I did have a tendency to childhood coughs and sniffles and now believe that the main trigger for that was being given antibiotics as a small child.
Once you have had one lot you then become enslaved to them because they wipe out the good bacteria and leave your body much more vulnerable to further infections. The irony is that most childhood illnesses will recover perfectly well on their own and just as quickly, as the Medical Profession have now realised. They no longer offer them for certain things, but back then they were dished out like sweeties for everything. I don't blame my Mum. Like everyone else she believed that the Medical Profession were there for our benefit!
Fleming said at least two things when he instigated the use of Penecillin. One was that people should take yoghurt during and after its use. The other was that indiscriminate use of them should be avoided - both of which were completely ignored. Now, of course, as a result we have the growing and very worrying scenario of microbes that have become resistant to the drugs and cannot be controlled.
Except for a very, and all too brief window about 25 years ago (when I was put on a low-carb diet by a very wise Naturopath) I don't remember what it is like to jump out of bed in the morning, bright and alert and ready to face the day. I have been dragging myself (and my weight) around all my adult life like a noose and I don't want to be in that place any more.
Already my energy is improving. I still have a way to go, but I am getting there and I know I am on the right track. Now if only I could let go of the day and get to bed earlier (during the evening of the same day I woke up would be a start!), I am sure that would make a big difference..........
We've both been low-carb for 3 weeks now, he's lost 16lbs and I lost 4 then put 2 back on !! :evil:
But it's not diet with me, its lack of moving. However he is trying to take more exercise & I have got 2 cookbooks and am trying my best. Will let you know how he goes on.
I have no change Ali, it's not helping me . Yet. :mrgreen:
But it's not diet with me, its lack of moving. However he is trying to take more exercise & I have got 2 cookbooks and am trying my best. Will let you know how he goes on.
I have no change Ali, it's not helping me . Yet. :mrgreen:
AliB
Well-Known Member
I believe that things like ME are triggered by a very toxic system.
We have a good friend who developed ME about 5 years ago. Previous to that she used to get Cystitis very regularly which suggested that her body was trying to off-load toxins. Then she developed reactions to the glues and glazes that she used in her china restoration business and couldn't do that any more. She developed reactions to other things like household cleaners.
Eventually she developed full-blown ME - so bad that she was virtually bedridden, could hardly communicate with anyone, couldn't cope with noise or light, couldn't read or watch TV. It was awful, like a living death. It's only over the last few months that she has gradually started to come out the other side.
It is possible that although you lost the weight your body wouldn't allow you to keep it off because there were too many toxins floating around in your body. Fat is a toxin store. The liver will hive toxins off into fat cells to be dealt with 'later'. In reality, later never comes because we keep topping up the toxins. Add into that the toxins created by pathogenic microbes like Candida and the body is just never able to get on top of them.
Eventually we end up with some kind of major health issue because the toxins have settled and are causing issues. Tumours are very likely formed as a protective measure by the body.
The body is amazing and has a fantastic ability to heal itself - just look what happens when you cut yourself. But we have to give it the tools to do it properly. If you keep putting the wrong fuel in an engine, eventually it will break down. Our bodies are no different.
Eat a clean diet and you will have a clean body. Simple. We make such a thing about looking good on the outside and then stuff all sorts of rubbish down our throats - and wonder why we are sick!
Carbs and sugars are the worst. Ok, so you didn't shift the weight. Well, neither have I. I have too many toxins floating around my body for that to happen. That is why dieters often plateau. Their body won't allow them to lose any more weight because the released toxins would kill them!
Once the backlog has cleared then the body will start to lose the weight again.
This is a life-changing thing. It's not just for a while. This is about being healthy. It's for life. And it's for LIFE.
We can't change certain things - pollution, getting older, but we can control what goes into our mouth. Life is what you make it - and health is what you eat.
We have a good friend who developed ME about 5 years ago. Previous to that she used to get Cystitis very regularly which suggested that her body was trying to off-load toxins. Then she developed reactions to the glues and glazes that she used in her china restoration business and couldn't do that any more. She developed reactions to other things like household cleaners.
Eventually she developed full-blown ME - so bad that she was virtually bedridden, could hardly communicate with anyone, couldn't cope with noise or light, couldn't read or watch TV. It was awful, like a living death. It's only over the last few months that she has gradually started to come out the other side.
It is possible that although you lost the weight your body wouldn't allow you to keep it off because there were too many toxins floating around in your body. Fat is a toxin store. The liver will hive toxins off into fat cells to be dealt with 'later'. In reality, later never comes because we keep topping up the toxins. Add into that the toxins created by pathogenic microbes like Candida and the body is just never able to get on top of them.
Eventually we end up with some kind of major health issue because the toxins have settled and are causing issues. Tumours are very likely formed as a protective measure by the body.
The body is amazing and has a fantastic ability to heal itself - just look what happens when you cut yourself. But we have to give it the tools to do it properly. If you keep putting the wrong fuel in an engine, eventually it will break down. Our bodies are no different.
Eat a clean diet and you will have a clean body. Simple. We make such a thing about looking good on the outside and then stuff all sorts of rubbish down our throats - and wonder why we are sick!
Carbs and sugars are the worst. Ok, so you didn't shift the weight. Well, neither have I. I have too many toxins floating around my body for that to happen. That is why dieters often plateau. Their body won't allow them to lose any more weight because the released toxins would kill them!
Once the backlog has cleared then the body will start to lose the weight again.
This is a life-changing thing. It's not just for a while. This is about being healthy. It's for life. And it's for LIFE.
We can't change certain things - pollution, getting older, but we can control what goes into our mouth. Life is what you make it - and health is what you eat.
AliB
Well-Known Member
Absolutely Ming. Just stick with it - at the end of the day, eating good nutritious healthy food cannot be harmful.
As long as you are getting lots of good veggies (not starchy ones), both cooked and raw (raw is very good because you are also getting the minerals and enzymes destroyed by cooking), some fruits, proteins from fish, meat, poultry and eggs, nuts (not roasted and salted as they are fattening and much of the goodness is destroyed), plain probiotic yogurt to help rebalance the gut flora and oust the beasties (I like the Total Greek whole yogurt (not the 0 or 2%)), a little dairy, and plenty of good oils - coconut, butter, ghee, fish oils and olive oil, and eat meals from a combination of those, you can't go far wrong.
There is, even in that so-called 'limited' selection a huge array of different foods and it is amazing, with a little imagination what you can do with them. If you look at any food created by top chefs like Jamie Oliver or his ilk (not Nigella - she likes the rich puds!) it is very noticeable that most of their meals consist of good wholesome foods, beautifully prepared.
People think they can eat like that because they are rich, but actually we can all eat like that with a little understanding. If only people spent their money on good natural foods instead of the 'open a packet and stuff it in' stuff they would be a darn sight healthier.
I don't think it is really cheap at all - people just think it is. And it certainly is not cheap on the health.
I cooked for Terry and I the other day two pieces of trout I bought in Morrisons. They cost just over £3 (I often buy reduced bits, but this was a treat). I fried them gently in a little butter and made a lemon and coriander sauce from the juices to go over the top. We had the fish with a good helping of french beans. It was gorgeous. If we had bought that in the local pub it would have cost us over £9 each. It took barely 30 minutes to cook.
Sometimes I will just throw a bacon and veggie omelette together which costs little more than £1.50. That makes a good and tasty meal.
All the best with your endeavours. Don't expect a quick result - after all health problems often show up after years of 'abuse'. I am still working some of mine out after 18 months but by far the majority have gone. When my hair finally stops falling out I'll know I've cracked it!
As long as you are getting lots of good veggies (not starchy ones), both cooked and raw (raw is very good because you are also getting the minerals and enzymes destroyed by cooking), some fruits, proteins from fish, meat, poultry and eggs, nuts (not roasted and salted as they are fattening and much of the goodness is destroyed), plain probiotic yogurt to help rebalance the gut flora and oust the beasties (I like the Total Greek whole yogurt (not the 0 or 2%)), a little dairy, and plenty of good oils - coconut, butter, ghee, fish oils and olive oil, and eat meals from a combination of those, you can't go far wrong.
There is, even in that so-called 'limited' selection a huge array of different foods and it is amazing, with a little imagination what you can do with them. If you look at any food created by top chefs like Jamie Oliver or his ilk (not Nigella - she likes the rich puds!) it is very noticeable that most of their meals consist of good wholesome foods, beautifully prepared.
People think they can eat like that because they are rich, but actually we can all eat like that with a little understanding. If only people spent their money on good natural foods instead of the 'open a packet and stuff it in' stuff they would be a darn sight healthier.
I don't think it is really cheap at all - people just think it is. And it certainly is not cheap on the health.
I cooked for Terry and I the other day two pieces of trout I bought in Morrisons. They cost just over £3 (I often buy reduced bits, but this was a treat). I fried them gently in a little butter and made a lemon and coriander sauce from the juices to go over the top. We had the fish with a good helping of french beans. It was gorgeous. If we had bought that in the local pub it would have cost us over £9 each. It took barely 30 minutes to cook.
Sometimes I will just throw a bacon and veggie omelette together which costs little more than £1.50. That makes a good and tasty meal.
All the best with your endeavours. Don't expect a quick result - after all health problems often show up after years of 'abuse'. I am still working some of mine out after 18 months but by far the majority have gone. When my hair finally stops falling out I'll know I've cracked it!
