Obesity

Andy_Warlow said:

So,

I just seen ion the papers, that the government have told GP's to frank with Obese people.

This drive is to save tax payers money.

IS this the correct way about going about it or will it drive people more down the rabbit hole?

Click to expand...

I certainly think it ill considered and that it will be futile. I doubt anyone doesn't know it is a problem, and that it is not good.

However, like all "awareness-raising" it will misfire, as the problem is not lack of knowledge but all too natural human traits that make temptation hard to resist and discipline hard to follow .

Interestingly this does not seem to be one of Boris's 24 hour thought bubbles and it seems to have lasted at least 72 hours

Couldn't trust the Gov or the NHS to 'advise' the population on obesity (been bitten far too many times), food manufacturers have far too much clout within Gov. Imagine if manufacturing of high fructose foods were banned, how many people would be out of work? It would cost the Gov a fortune in lost taxes. There's too much money involved in Big Food.

From what I've been reading, fructose is trashing peoples metabolism it's so addictive, and don't food manufacturers love that addiction. Some kids don't stand a chance.

Type in 'low fat' into the search box of an online shopping website and dozens of products will result, but type in 'low carb' and hardly any products result - that's my experience with Tesco online shopping anyway.

Andy_Warlow said:

So,

I just seen ion the papers, that the government have told GP's to frank with Obese people.

This drive is to save tax payers money.

IS this the correct way about going about it or will it drive people more down the rabbit hole?

Click to expand...

I think the problem is the advice which has been dished out for around 50 years to eat low fat and eat plenty of carbs instead has had such a detrimental impact. Instead the focus is on calories and usual advice to eat less and move more failed mantra. Which does nothing to change outcomes for people who are obese or even over weight to a certain degree because there seems to be no understanding or no wanting to understand the role of insulin and an absurd belief that we should be consuming 45% or higher of our daily energy level in the form of carbohydrate which isn't even an essential nutrient. Yet it requires the largest response from the pancreas.

So it continues, keep dishing out the same failed advice. So GP's are going to be laying down the law (so to speak) because of a problem created by the the health care system (Dietary) and a collection of vested interests such as the food industry etc. This is blaming the very people who have done what they have been advised to do. Who then get labeled as nonconforming if Dr's don't see the results they think they should see. Which I think is basically calling these people liars. Even if they have tried so hard.

Toby789 said:

However, like all "awareness-raising" it will misfire, as the problem is not lack of knowledge but all too natural human traits that make temptation hard to resist and discipline hard to follow .

Click to expand...

I couldn’t disagree more. There is a huge lack of knowledge among healthcare professionals as well as the general public. A lack of knowledge which helps to fuel the unhelpful narrative that the overweight and obese are simply weak willed, lazy and undisciplined.

As a former (almost morbidly) obese person I can testify that none of this is true. I do not claim to have eaten a ‘perfect’ diet as prescribed by the ‘eatwell’ plate - far from it - but all my attempts to lose weight following traditional advice failed. It was not until I understood the concepts of insulin resistance (in which obesity is a symptom not a cause) and the impact of carbohydrates for those who are metabolically challenged that I was able to move forward, deal with type 2 and also lose weight (and that is not a given for any way of eating).

There are many more similar stories here and elsewhere.

If there is to be a real shift in public health then there needs to be a fundamental shift in nutrition understanding and advice not a culture of bullying and blame towards those who struggle with their weight.

Goonergal said:

I couldn’t disagree more. There is a huge lack of knowledge among healthcare professionals as well as the general public. A lack of knowledge which helps to fuel the unhelpful narrative that the overweight and obese are simply weak willed, lazy and undisciplined.

As a former (almost morbidly) obese person I can testify that none of this is true. I do not claim to have eaten a ‘perfect’ diet as prescribed by the ‘eatwell’ plate - far from it - but all my attempts to lose weight following traditional advice failed. It was not until I understood the concepts of insulin resistance (in which obesity is a symptom not a cause) and the impact of carbohydrates for those who are metabolically challenged that I was able to move forward, deal with type 2 and also lose weight (and that is not a given for any way of eating).

There are many more similar stories here and elsewhere.

If there is to be a real shift in public health then there needs to be a fundamental shift in nutrition understanding and advice not a culture of bullying and blame towards those who struggle with their weight.

Click to expand...

Maybe, but how can doctors being frank get where you want? Doctors being frank in the sense Boris is pushing just compounds the problem. maybe doctors being frank about what you are saying would work, but something tells me pressed NHS doctors will not be debating your points but merely pushing a "you need to lose weight" line, which will compound the psychological/shame culture aspects of this. I think the real problem is top down government health campaigns - they always fail and yet we repeat them thinking they will work this time.

I already avoid going to see my GP as much as possible because I have been lectured to lose weight (and once shouted at) so many times. I don't need another lecture, I need the right keys to unlock the fat. Low carb is one key but there has to be more keys that I haven't found yet. I do know that eat less and move more isn't the answer.

Well, I certainly look forward to having a frank conversation with my doctor (not that I have seen him in the 3 years since I joined the practice).

I hope he will find it interesting not too shocking educational refreshing.

although I actually do feel sorry for healthcare staff tackling the issue of weight loss and obesity. They probably started their career all bright and shiny and Enthusiastic to help and care for their patients. But over time, the endless regurgitation of policy approved dietary advice has done nothing but seen their patients get fatter, and metabolic syndrome become epidemic.

And it is natural to blame others. It can’t be the advice, can it?
And if they are a typical healthcare worker, they are fighting their own personal battle of the bulge, and applying their own advice to themselves must just cause even more frustration.

personally, I doubt if doctors will take the slightest notice of the new advice. They have probably learned long ago that frankness gets them many reactions (anger, tears, complaints, disappointment, desperate hope, arguments, detailed life stories...). One thing I am certain is that ‘frankness’ will result in little long term weight loss, if the standard low fat high carb guidelines are part of the package.

Goonergal said:

I couldn’t disagree more. There is a huge lack of knowledge among healthcare professionals as well as the general public. A lack of knowledge which helps to fuel the unhelpful narrative that the overweight and obese are simply weak willed, lazy and undisciplined.

As a former (almost morbidly) obese person I can testify that none of this is true. I do not claim to have eaten a ‘perfect’ diet as prescribed by the ‘eatwell’ plate - far from it - but all my attempts to lose weight following traditional advice failed. It was not until I understood the concepts of insulin resistance (in which obesity is a symptom not a cause) and the impact of carbohydrates for those who are metabolically challenged that I was able to move forward, deal with type 2 and also lose weight (and that is not a given for any way of eating).

There are many more similar stories here and elsewhere.

If there is to be a real shift in public health then there needs to be a fundamental shift in nutrition understanding and advice not a culture of bullying and blame towards those who struggle with their weight.

Click to expand...

I am not sure that it is clear that in all cases insulin resistance causes obesity, although it may be in some. The scientific research is at worst all over the place and at best balanced on that, and there are plenty of examples of the reverse causal process.

However I completely agree that the narrative that obese people are weak willed is incorrect (and positively harmful), but I think all humans are weak willed, and some are lucky enough to seem to not suffer for that, while others aren't. It is one of the conundrums of our age of abundance.

Andy_Warlow said:

So,

I just seen ion the papers, that the government have told GP's to frank with Obese people.

This drive is to save tax payers money.

IS this the correct way about going about it or will it drive people more down the rabbit hole?

Click to expand...

"Frank", I can handle. "Patronising" and "fearmongering" not so much. Years ago, my GP tried to scare me into dieting on the basis of "What if you died, or had a heart attack or stroke? How would your family cope?" That stuff isn't constructive. I wouldn't take it from them, now. But I really wish someone had taken the time to tell me to regulate my carbs (not just sugar) rather than leaving me to believe that toast or crackers, with low fat spread, were pretty much sin free snacks.

It seems they won't promote LCHF, possibly out of fear of the HF part doing more harm than good with respect to cholesterol and other issues. (Even though there's plenty of anecdotal evidence that LCHF can improve cholesterol too, it at least seems counter-intuitive to eat more fat if your cholesterol is elevated.) LCHF may be the holy grail for some of us whose only issue is diabetes, but the situation's more complex once comorbidities are introduced.

Andy_Warlow said:

told GP's to frank with Obese people

Click to expand...

Has printing this will kill you on the side of cigarette packets stopped people smoking? No.

So then they put the price up. (notice a pattern here)

zand said:

I already avoid going to see my GP as much as possible because I have been lectured to lose weight (and once shouted at) so many times. I don't need another lecture, I need the right keys to unlock the fat. Low carb is one key but there has to be more keys that I haven't found yet. I do know that eat less and move more isn't the answer.

Click to expand...

I think we are seeing everywhere how doctors are singularly ill-equipped and in fact incompetent at dealing with widespread health issues.

Our public health technocrats have roundly failed us, and yet stand there blaming us for their failures and getting harsher and harsher (there is a good case for saying they are gaslighting us - I tend to believe my lying eyes over much of what they say). Their public health remedies don't work yet they shout even louder - as the lay joke says, that is the definition of madness.

It seems to me that both in diabetes and SARS COV 2 doctors seem to know everything about the body and nothing about humans. Translating their micro level rules to macro level rules has been a disaster.

Losing weight is NOT about will power and determination if you have insulin resistance.
The cycle of eating foods that spike BG, crashing and insane hunger is impossible to knuckle through.
Carbs are addictive. Only though stopping the viscous cycle and stopping the high BG can a person succeed. As long as people are feeling deprived and hungry no amount of “frank discussion” will help.
For me since cutting carbs to a bare minimum and filling up on full fat and meat has my hunger subsided.
I always cook my meals with the odd time eating out and exercised. Keto way of eating changed my life.

In a similar vein, his GP told my father in law.... If you keep smoking, you may as well jump under a bus!

He stopped smoking.
A word to the wise!
D.

Andy_Warlow said:

So,

I just seen ion the papers, that the government have told GP's to frank with Obese people.

This drive is to save tax payers money.

IS this the correct way about going about it or will it drive people more down the rabbit hole?

Click to expand...

Depends how frank they are going to be. I have found when the nurse has been frank (I felt was more nasty personally) that I don’t find it encourages me, rather the opposite

It also needs support elsewhere, low carb information would have changed my lifestyle probably decades ago but that’s not the advice I was given

Encouraging to eat out, half price at restaurants is hardly an encouragement to eat better. Sugar taxes and ending BOGOF won’t work either. If people want a mars bar they’ll eat one.

Processed foods and high sugar and carbs are everywhere, cheap and easy to get hold of. The food industry wants us to eat this stuff and come Brexit I can’t see this getting any better