Ok..now I can't get my head around this at all...

[Finsky]

...so ideas please!?

I started lowering my carb intake some time before I 'officially' started following LCHF diet about 9 weeks ago...8 weeks everything went BRLIANTLY...blood sugars came crashing down and I had to lower my insulin intake drastically, even had odd day without need for insulin at all...and then I had few days slightly higher readings and I could not explain any reason for them at all...so I decided to take matter further and try fasting. It wasn't very pleasant experience...managed nearly 4 days, out of them day 3 I was feeling normal and highly energetic...but even then my blood sugars didn't really come down that much...in higher end of normal range most of the time.
I thought...yep, it must be the excess from stores that is coming out....I knew I was producing ketones...I've had ketone breath some time now, even before starting the fast And then came the 4th fasting day...managed just about half day and I just couldn't do it anymore...but my blood glucose levels were not that low!?
So now I've been back into solids....thought still eating VERY carefully and only very small amounts and within LCHF guide lines..though on the very low end of the carb intake...and the ketone breath is not going away
What is bothering me...I cannot get my blood sugars back down again...I walk, I do physical stuff...everything like I did before when I had constant brilliant test results and now I'm lucky to even get down to 6! I don't feel particularly hungry, nor thirsty, eye sight fine, blood pressure fine....but I'm feeling the cold weather when outside and I don't feel warm inside neither. Sometimes I have been testing my blood thinking I must be having low bloodsugar levels..it is almost like I have hypo coming on...little achy feeling on arms like I would have done something to make my muscles tender day before...BUT I haven't!
And now I've got this rash under my armpit and under my boobies....cannot explain that neither!? I haven't used any new products, don't usually react anything that way. I've taken antihistamin last couple of days incase it is allergic reaction...but it doesn't have no effect. And even then my blood sugars have been up before this rash....just thought to mention it as it is only thing that is obvious being different with me....oh and yes, I've lost weight over these months, that too is different
I don't feel I have cold coming anything like that, just little achy..feeling cold..and 'rashy'!?

I just can't figure out what to do...I've taken some insulin to bring my 'sugars' into higher end of the normal range..but now I feel like everything is going backwards...!? And my fasting was supposed to help me... I still carry on extended fasting hours like before total fasting...but it doesn't come as easily now...I'm really watching the time all the time as I feel I'm ready for little something to eat, but not really hungry as such
So any thoughts....is there something 'going around' that I should be aware...maybe I'm turning into

 

[bulkbiker]

Do you think you could be sickening for something? I think quite a few people here report higher readings when they are coming down with an illness? Might explain the rash as well. I get cold hands and feet but put that down to having lost a shedload (almost literally) of weight.

 

[Finsky]

Do you think you could be sickening for something? I think quite a few people here report higher readings when they are coming down with an illness? Might explain the rash as well. I get cold hands and feet but put that down to having lost a shedload (almost literally) of weight.

Thanks...yes, that thought just entered my mind as well (it helps to read one's own thoughts...) I'm generally otherwise very well person...and rarely suffer with colds etc. But who knows...bugs and viruses are everywhere and last couple of weeks I've been more out and about in public places than normal....very unlike my usual 'hermit' life style. I just wonder now if I was brewing something at the start/during fasting!
I don't usually nap during day and I tend to be night owl as well...and just recently I've been going to bed at 10pm!!! That's not like me....even now I could crawl on settee and do nothing and have layer of blankets to keep me warm.
We'll see how this develop...thanks again..you reply was most welcome...it is good be reminded that 'we' do react so many ways to even some simple illnesses.
I feel like swearing now...........'heading for supplements...I'll kill the bugs!'...'maybe a tot of whisky would be more potent 'sterilizer'( yes, that's how I feel and I'm normally almost tea total!)

 

[jbcat]

I'm currently trying to lower my carb intake. I'm not following any specific plan but trying to keep to low carb food. I'm really interested in knowing if you find what's causing your problem.

 

[Totto]

@Finsky I think you should eat a good meal or two, proper LCHF food and fill up. It might be that your body gets so stressed from fasting. You could try it and see what happens.

 

[Finsky]

I'm currently trying to lower my carb intake. I'm not following any specific plan but trying to keep to low carb food. I'm really interested in knowing if you find what's causing your problem.

I don't find any issues with LCHF diet in general and until now its been better than any advise that I've been following and I will carry on regardless. But I will update as and when there is any changes for my current 'thing'.

 

[Finsky]

@Finsky I think you should eat a good meal or two, proper LCHF food and fill up. It might be that your body gets so stressed from fasting. You could try it and see what happens.

Lol...something my dad would say to me if he would be alive....''get your food down girl!"
I have eaten few full meals with puds as well! ...tough I can't get my portion sizes up yet without feeling uncomfortable.
I just had smoked mackerel and bit of whipped cream and yogurt with berries and I'm stuffed! I just might follow your advise and try again some more little later on, I just don't want to push my portion sizes too much, particularly now that I've managed to train my tummy to be happy with less....'says one that always have had VERY healthy appetite and rarely used to no thank you....'

 

[bulkbiker]

Lol...something my dad would say to me if he would be alive....''get your food down girl!"
I have eaten few full meals with puds as well! ...tough I can't get my portion sizes up yet without feeling uncomfortable.
I just had smoked mackerel and bit of whipped cream and yogurt with berries and I'm stuffed! I just might follow your advise and try again some more little later on, I just don't want to push my portion sizes too much, particularly now that I've managed to train my tummy to be happy with less....'says one that always have had VERY healthy appetite and rarely used to no thank you....'

To be honest I fast quite regularly and have never had an ill effects so doubt it would be that if you have been low carbing beforehand.

 

[Totto]

To be honest I fast quite regularly and have never had an ill effects so doubt it would be that if you have been low carbing beforehand.

Good for you but who says everybody reacts the same?

 

[bulkbiker]

Good for you but who says everybody reacts the same?

well I've never developed a rash through fasting.. I, like most people here, can only refer to my own experience..

 

[Brunneria]

If you are deeply in ketosis, you may be experiencing physiological insulin resistance.

Have a google, and you will see what I mean.
Sorry, but the explanation is long and is best explained by proper articles than by me phaffing in a forum post.

 

[Finsky]

If you are deeply in ketosis, you may be experiencing physiological insulin resistance.

Have a google, and you will see what I mean.
Sorry, but the explanation is long and is best explained by proper articles than by me phaffing in a forum post.

OH BRILLIANT! I've been googling that found it all VERY interesting indeed. You might be onto something there...
and it is very easily found out...EATING 150g carbs on 3 days in row!!!! Oh I'm going to have field day trying that out
I have to admit I've been almost obsessive with my low carbing...maybe I have indeed pushed my body bit too hard. I had slightly larger low carb meal tonight with the result that I'm really stuffed, but my blood sugars have gone quite high...just like PIR would suggest...I also had some sleep and don't feel any better...it is just like I don't have no muscles in my body...just constant back round aching going on.
I'm going to venture into kitchen right now!....nom nom..

ETA: just corrected the carb intake doze...got the wording wrong...

 

[Brunneria]

lol

I have also just written a post on another thread about making sure you get enough minerals (salt, potassium and magnesium), and I thought of you...
Are you having the bone broth/stock cube drinks and making you have enough minerals - deficiency shows up as cramps (hot weather) and muscle floppy weakness.

 

[Finsky]

lol

I have also just written a post on another thread about making sure you get enough minerals (salt, potassium and magnesium), and I thought of you...
Are you having the bone broth/stock cube drinks and making you have enough minerals - deficiency shows up as cramps (hot weather) and muscle floppy weakness.

Yes, I have been having stock cube drinks...when I was doing liquid fasting, and these symptoms first appeared, at first slurping stock did have almost medicinal effect....I could feel my muscles 'melting' (in a nice way...like warm spreading through veins) but eventually even that didn't do anything anymore and I had really REALLY strong 'EAT NOW' message and stopped fasting. But now these aches and unwell feeling don't go away. No raised temperature, actually in the slightly low end of normal body temp..and feeling cold too....just like when one haven't got energy going on. One site called this PIR as 'ketone flu'...which kind of sounds what I'm feeling.
I haven't had any cramps at all nor any floppy weakness so I think I'm ok with minerals + I've been taking supplements as well so I should be covered.
Well...I've just managed to stuff in about 60g of carbs in one go...(not much in house in first place)...but hubby's last chockie bar was lovely....he'll be 'pleased'....ooooooh and I had some TOAST! I'll see if I feel any difference in the morning. I think I might have to shop few 'good carbs' into house for next few days...and maybe few bananas
If PIR is the cause and cure is some carbs...I wonder if I carry on LCHF diet but include 'a shot' of them every once and while, maybe every other day or so portion of extra 'easy' carbs to keep this from happening again..or would steady supply 'good' carbs be better idea..not so low levels? I do find eating really low carb food much easier option rather than 'playing with fire' all the time. Kind of all or nothing attitude.
Maybe I just have to trial response for that too....

ETA: you are such a wonder for sources for knowledge......

 

[Robbity]

Interesting! I've only skimmed through this thread as I'm reading it at some ungodly hour in the middle of the night...

But, I've found that if I reduce the size of my meals too much or try fasting for more than a few days, my glucose levels will usually start going up a bit and then start bouncing around instead of staying nice and stable. I've never actually looked for a cause but just accepted that my body isn't happy with the situation and is telling me it's time to stop messing around and just carry on with my normal low carb eating. I'd sort of assumed it was just me!

I'll have to come back for a proper read later on.

Robbity

 

[Brunneria]

ETA: you are such a wonder for sources of knowledge......

Lol. Just hang around the forum. You pick up all sorts of info you never thought would come in useful... (And it was @Andrew Colvin who first put me onto PIR when I was whinging about how my bgs never dropped into the 4s any more - so thank him!)

 

[ep5]

I've been eating a very low carb, high fat diet for about 12 weeks, with two tries at a longer fasting time... the first time I made it 36 hours, the second time about 42, and I felt like **** both times! Cold, and my tummy hurt! A lot! But in the past five days or so I've noticed my digestive system has finally adjusted to LC HF eating (every other part of me has felt so much better since day 1, but my digestive system was not on board) so I'm going to give a longer fast another try in a few days... I think it's going to be better this time : )

I also had a rash under my breasts for several weeks... just checked and yup, that's cleared up too. It's hard to be patient, but I think it was just my body adjusting to the change... but I'm going to go read the article on PIR now... I hadn't even heard of that! Still, I've had great results from just hanging in there, from a fasting blood glucose level of 268 (about 14.9) to 125 (about 6.9?) and tonight, the lowest evening reading I've gotten so far, 100 (5.5)

 

[ickihun]

@Finsky be careful of fasting. Some are saying fasting causes underactive thyroid.
If coldness and need for sleep continues get checked out please.
Only if symptoms continue.
Fasting is good for your digestive system but your hormones have other ideas, sometimes. ;-)

 

[Finsky]

Morning....report after first carb binging sesson. Because I had couple of hours on settee yesterday evening (so not like me), it messed up with my sleeping pattern and I ended up being wake most of the night....so I had chance to have few more carbs in...total for yesterday 90g. I really really don't like jam on toast anymore.......and funny enough I don't enjoy any of the carb rich stuff that we still have in house. So now I know I'll be getting my carbs from next few days from fruit...and maybe from a trifle..
BUT, I can gladly say that my body aches have reduced already almost next to nothing!!!! So it looks like I have indeed had 'ketone flu'!
I WILL be very happy after next couple of days go back to my 'old' new diet, though this time I shall try it with occasional fruit carbs 'injections' and not do drastic carb reductions in a hurry (not that I really do it that fast in first time round)....AND I WILL try again longer term fasting because I want to experience that 'one day wonder' feeling I had last week...and I WANT to try to beat my insulin resistance and live as drug free as possible... I WON'T be beaten by this!

I was reading from one source about this 'PIR', that if one is getting more closer to lean end of body mass, this kind of 'wrong way' round chemical message thing can happen as well as doing sudden drastic changes....since mine should not have been that drastic...it might be the first one. I don't have that much anymore visible fat tissue to loose...yes I still have on the middle, can't call myself slim (yet), but not much anywhere else. For a woman I carry fair bit of muscle...and if they don't get the energy they need because of mixed messages, they were practically starving....no wonder I've been aching!

@Brunneria....(I don't know yet how to do those 'calling cards') YOU ARE to be thanked, it was YOU that passed the info and I really thank you for it!
AND I need to thank @Andrew Colvin as well for finding the info out in first place and passing it on...another example how 'talking' about things may be just the info that will benefit others
My gut was right again....this aching 'business' didn't feel right so did need to question it...and yielded the answers!!

ETA...I did the calling card thing...ha. it was easier than I first thought! ...another little success!

 

[Finsky]

@Finsky be careful of fasting. Some are saying fasting causes underactive thyroid.
If coldness and need for sleep continues get checked out please.
Only if symptoms continue.
Fasting is good for your digestive system but your hormones have other ideas, sometimes. ;-)

Yes, thank you for the warning I am on constant thyroid 'watch' anyway..having so strong thyroid issue history coming from my mother's side that it has been tested every time I get any blood tests done. Tough good thing is those thyroid issues are linked to environmental stimulants for my female relations rather than being 'just' thyroid causes because of thyroid itself...I never grew up that part of the Finland, so I should not been exposed to the possible cause, hopefully I'll be excluded from that issue...one can never be 100% sure of these things so I'm still been watched.