Type 2 Physiological IR/Adaptive Glucose Sparing

[Caeseji]

Just wondering if this was what was happening to me, noticed the past few days that my FBG has been hovering between 4.9-5.1 lately when the other week I was seeing consistent 4's. Post prandial sugars are around the same sort of range but sometimes I have been seeing 5.4 in the middle of fasting. Now I am not sure if it is the new strips that I opened the other day or something like that or could it be that I am fully fat adapted so my cells and muscles are saying no thank you to glucose? These days I'm eating nearly zero carbs and mostly fat and protein whilst doing OMAD.

 

[Bluetit1802]

It could be physiological insulin resistance, the symptoms you describe fit.

However, as you FBG is still remarkably good, I see no reason for concern.

 

[bulkbiker]

Just wondering if this was what was happening to me, noticed the past few days that my FBG has been hovering between 4.9-5.1 lately when the other week I was seeing consistent 4's. Post prandial sugars are around the same sort of range but sometimes I have been seeing 5.4 in the middle of fasting. Now I am not sure if it is the new strips that I opened the other day or something like that or could it be that I am fully fat adapted so my cells and muscles are saying no thank you to glucose? These days I'm eating nearly zero carbs and mostly fat and protein whilst doing OMAD.

Which meter are you using?

 

[Caeseji]

Which meter are you using?

A Glucomen Areo 2K, the nurse gave it to me last year because she feared me going into DKA.

 

[bulkbiker]

A Glucomen Areo 2K, the nurse gave it to me last year because she feared me going into DKA.

OK no personal experience of that one.. but some strips do read higher than others in my experience.. could be the heat too? Have they been in the sun e.g.?

 

[Caeseji]

OK no personal experience of that one.. but some strips do read higher than others in my experience.. could be the heat too? Have they been in the sun e.g.?

Not to my knowledge really but they could have been left out near the oven at some point whilst I was sorting out my previous run to the pharmacy so that could have had an effect. These ones have been consistently higher than the last two tubes I had so pondering poking my GP to get another tube (they actually gave me some on prescription oddly enough).

That or start self funding with a Tee2 or somesuch.

 

[bulkbiker]

That or start self funding with a Tee2 or somesuch.

I found the Tee2 aligns far better with my HbA1c than the SD Codefree ever did... might just be me of course.

 

[Caeseji]

I found the Tee2 aligns far better with my HbA1c than the SD Codefree ever did... might just be me of course.

Yeah I've noticed that about the Areo too, my 3 month average was way above the A1C that I actually got on that day. I think I'll invest in one actually, there's been a lot of instabilities with this one.

 

[Adm_Mad]

I’ve been reading most of the morning about this, and about how saturated fats (ie fats from red meat, chicken, pork, and processed meats etc) increase insulin resistance so type 2’s trying to eat low carb/higher fat and protein should only eat unsaturated fats like nuts and avocados and fresh fish. No cheese, dairy, processed meat, freah meat with fat in it, etc.

I don’t know about the UK but avocados and fresh fish aren’t exactly cheap in Australia, and apparently eating too many nuts can be bad too.

If carbs = death, too much protein = insulin resistance and kidney problems and fat = insulin resistance and coronary disease which is apparently the biggest cause of death of us type 2’s, exactly what are we supposed to eat?

My answer was going to be green leafy vegetables but apparently they cause kidney disease too.

 

[Tophat1900]

I’ve been reading most of the morning about this, and about how saturated fats (ie fats from red meat, chicken, pork, and processed meats etc) increase insulin resistance so type 2’s trying to eat low carb/higher fat and protein should only eat unsaturated fats like nuts and avocados and fresh fish. No cheese, dairy, processed meat, freah meat with fat in it, etc.

I don’t know about the UK but avocados and fresh fish aren’t exactly cheap in Australia, and apparently eating too many nuts can be bad too.

If carbs = death, too much protein = insulin resistance and kidney problems and fat = insulin resistance and coronary disease which is apparently the biggest cause of death of us type 2’s, exactly what are we supposed to eat?

My answer was going to be green leafy vegetables but apparently they cause kidney disease too.

What on earth were you reading?

 

[Deleted member 308541]

I’ve been reading most of the morning about this, and about how saturated fats (ie fats from red meat, chicken, pork, and processed meats etc) increase insulin resistance so type 2’s trying to eat low carb/higher fat and protein should only eat unsaturated fats like nuts and avocados and fresh fish. No cheese, dairy, processed meat, freah meat with fat in it, etc.

I have done all right eating fats from meat, chicken, bacon, cheese, yoghurt etc.

I don’t know about the UK but avocados and fresh fish aren’t exactly cheap in Australia, and apparently eating too many nuts can be bad too.

I buy bags of small avocados from Woolworth's for $8.00, single avos for less than $2.00 at the farmers markets on a Sunday. The fish I buy from the trawlers is not overly priced compared to the fish shops.

Macadamia nuts I get from my next door neighbour for free, if you go to the packing sheds here in Bundy you can get broken macadamia kernels reasonably priced.

You need to look around more for bargains.

 

[Adm_Mad]

@Tophat1900 https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-t...-healthy-balanced-diet/processed-and-red-meat
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6244743/
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/25/3/620
https://www.diabetesaustralia.com.au/what-should-i-eat
https://nutritionfacts.org/2016/11/17/fat-is-the-cause-of-type-2-diabetes/
https://ucdintegrativemedicine.com/2016/09/diet-diabetes-saturated-fats-real-enemy/
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/5-foods-to-avoid.html
https://www.healthline.com/health/diabetes/eggs
Even the keto fanatics/dogmatics on Reddit seem to agree that the rules don’t apply for type 2 diabetics, and saturated fat needs to be low as possible

Just to be clear I’m not trying to have an argument here. I’m doing what I assume most type 2 diabetics do in the weeks following their diagnosis, reading everything I can and feeling totally overwhelmed and hopeless at all the information. I know this is just the panic speaking but to my very new eyes it seems like this is the very obvious readon why so many of us type 2’s die of heart disease - it’s either that or high blood sugar complications, because foods that address one health concern exacerbate another, and our bodies don’t respond well to “everything in moderation” because something that would be moderate for normal people (carbs and sugar) is too high for us.

And for the record if I read anything that says meat and cheese etc are bad and that type 2 diabetics should eat plenty of “good” or “slow release” or “low GI” carbs like whole grains, breads, pastas, or dried fruits etc, and propose meal plans with big servings of carbs at every meal, I side eye that.

@Tipetoo I was able to buy a bag of 6 small avos for $8 today, that’s 220 calories a day for six days sorted. I am NOT saying that it isn’t possible to eat a low budget diet that’s low carb, low calorie, low bad-fat, high good-fat, medium lean-protein, won’t give you malnutrition or make you OD on anything, and not feel so deprived and miserable that you’re tempted to break. It obviously is because lots of people manage. I am just saying that it’s something I am going to have to learn because I haven’t done it before. As wrong as this sounds, my history of anorexia will probably help me here if I can tap into the willpower I used to have to make this work to improve my chances of surviving as long as I can (allowing for the randomness of this disease obviously and how doing everything right isn’t a guarantee you won’t get complications and die early).

 

[Deleted member 308541]

@Tipetoo I was able to buy a bag of 6 small avos for $8 today, that’s 220 calories a day for six days sorted. I am NOT saying that it isn’t possible to eat a low budget diet that’s low carb, low calorie, low bad-fat, high good-fat, medium lean-protein, won’t give you malnutrition or make you OD on anything, and not feel so deprived and miserable that you’re tempted to break.

It has not happened to me.

This link will help you work out your carbs for Australian food, it includes greasy spoon franchises.

https://www.fatsecret.com.au/calories-nutrition/

 

[Adm_Mad]

Yep that’s one of the sites (and CalorieKing.com.au) I’ve been using to google nutritional info for everything I’ve eaten. I don’t trust the calorie counts in My Fitness Pal even though that’s the app I’m using for calorie and macro counting. I am giving myself a big margin of error for inaccuracies and my own errors in entries.

My appointment with my GP is tomorrow (FINALLY!) fingers crossed I don’t put on weight overnight like I did last night and my sugars don’t spike stupidly.

 

[Tophat1900]

@Tophat1900 https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-t...-healthy-balanced-diet/processed-and-red-meat
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6244743/
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/25/3/620
https://www.diabetesaustralia.com.au/what-should-i-eat
https://nutritionfacts.org/2016/11/17/fat-is-the-cause-of-type-2-diabetes/
https://ucdintegrativemedicine.com/2016/09/diet-diabetes-saturated-fats-real-enemy/
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/5-foods-to-avoid.html
https://www.healthline.com/health/diabetes/eggs
Even the keto fanatics/dogmatics on Reddit seem to agree that the rules don’t apply for type 2 diabetics, and saturated fat needs to be low as possible

Just to be clear I’m not trying to have an argument here. I’m doing what I assume most type 2 diabetics do in the weeks following their diagnosis, reading everything I can and feeling totally overwhelmed and hopeless at all the information. I know this is just the panic speaking but to my very new eyes it seems like this is the very obvious readon why so many of us type 2’s die of heart disease - it’s either that or high blood sugar complications, because foods that address one health concern exacerbate another, and our bodies don’t respond well to “everything in moderation” because something that would be moderate for normal people (carbs and sugar) is too high for us.

And for the record if I read anything that says meat and cheese etc are bad and that type 2 diabetics should eat plenty of “good” or “slow release” or “low GI” carbs like whole grains, breads, pastas, or dried fruits etc, and propose meal plans with big servings of carbs at every meal, I side eye that.

@Tipetoo I was able to buy a bag of 6 small avos for $8 today, that’s 220 calories a day for six days sorted. I am NOT saying that it isn’t possible to eat a low budget diet that’s low carb, low calorie, low bad-fat, high good-fat, medium lean-protein, won’t give you malnutrition or make you OD on anything, and not feel so deprived and miserable that you’re tempted to break. It obviously is because lots of people manage. I am just saying that it’s something I am going to have to learn because I haven’t done it before. As wrong as this sounds, my history of anorexia will probably help me here if I can tap into the willpower I used to have to make this work to improve my chances of surviving as long as I can (allowing for the randomness of this disease obviously and how doing everything right isn’t a guarantee you won’t get complications and die early).

I'm not being argumentative, but that is pretty much the same standard advice T2's are given and it's done nothing to help for at least the last 50 years. Fat is not the enemy, meats are not the enemy, we've been eating these foods for millions of years. If they were as claimed, basically killing us, we wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation. We'd of died off as a species a long time ago. What has had a major impact on chronic disease rates over the last 50 yrs is carbohydrate consumption in the form of sugars, grains and potatoes etc. This creates a state of hyperinsulemia (Too much insulin in your system) and insulin resistance, the pancreas just cannot deal with the amounts of carbs being eaten. This also causes fatty liver. When people go low carb and avoid the grains and eliminate sugar, they improve blood glucose levels, they improve their liver health and remove the massive burden on the pancreas, liver and their general health. Blood glucose becomes more stable. If you want to know more about hypernsulemia etc, check out the links I posted further down.

The low fat advice and only eat 3 weeks a week is absurd. Along with the eat healthy grains advice. I'm not bashing you. So please don't think I am. It is daunting when you are trying to figure out stuff soon after diagnosis. Here are a few links that may interest you.

Ivor Cumin's, https://thefatemperor.com/blog/ - is a bio-engineer with a wealth of knowledge. He covers a lot of diet info, including cholesterol and various other topics. Just scroll through his blog for topics that interest you. He interviews a lot of top specialist in different fields. I've learnt a lot from him And there are plenty of other podcasts available.

For diet and low carb meals etc, take a look at www.dietdoctor.com
@Jim Lahey will recommend Dr.Jason Fung, I think he's a great source of info also.

Good luck with your appointment.

 

[Guzzler]

Sat fats do not cause heart attacks. Protein does not cause kidney disease. No one has didcovered the reason why some of us become hyperinsulinaemic and insulin resistant though some of us can have a blummin' good guess.

Here's your own Paul Mason on different fats, search for him on YouTube for short and long presentations on a range of topics wrt to metabolic syndrome.
@Adm_Mad

 

[Bluetit1802]

I’ve been reading most of the morning about this, and about how saturated fats (ie fats from red meat, chicken, pork, and processed meats etc) increase insulin resistance so type 2’s trying to eat low carb/higher fat and protein should only eat unsaturated fats like nuts and avocados and fresh fish. No cheese, dairy, processed meat, freah meat with fat in it, etc.

You are pointing out that maybe saturated fats can increase insulin resistance. @Caeseji was asking if his current readings could indicate Physiological Insulin Resistance. This is not the same as the diabetic insulin resistance that you are discussing. Physiological IR (PIR) is a situation where the body detects very low glucose and gets worried there won't be enough for the brain, so cells are triggered to reject the glucose there is and it gets sent to the brain. I don't understand the biology behind it but it leads to an increased fasting level and increased levels pre meals. (The base line levels). It does not affect the actual rise we see from before to after eating. It is normally temporary, and can be resolved quickly by increasing carbs by a small amount. It doesn't happen to everyone, or at least if it does, they don't notice because the rises are fairly small, but none the less, consistent.

 

[Adm_Mad]

@Bluetit1802 Thank you! Please tell me this eventually gets less confusing, LOL.

 

[ickihun]

Borderline dehydration can effect the number on your meter. Or battery efficiency.

 

[Bluetit1802]

@Bluetit1802 Thank you! Please tell me this eventually gets less confusing, LOL.

Sorry, I can't!! After 5 years I am even more confused.