Physiological IR.

[Guzzler]

Can members tell me the difference between Physiological IR and Diabetic IR, please? TIA

 

[ziggy_w]

Hi @Guzzler,

not sure I can explain this really well, but I will try. (Mind you I am just a lay person, so can't guarantee I understood this correctly.)

Physiological insulin resistance occurs due to a low-carb diet. On a low-carb diet the body scales back the use of glucose for some of your body's functions and uses ketones instead (e.g. brain, muscles). Glucose is thus conserved for the most essential functions (such as producing red blood cells). This is why some people also refer to physiological insulin resistance as adaptive glucose sparing. Physiological insulin resistance can be reversed when we start eating a lot of carbs again.

Diabetic insulin resistance, also known as pathological insulin resistance, occurs when insulin is ineffective or not fully effective at getting glucose into your cells. (Sometimes a lock and key analogy is used meaning that insulin is the key to get glucose into the cell, but it no longer fits the lock). So, cells actually are starving because they lack glucose as fuel and cannot use ketones instead because they are not fat adapted. Thus glucose stays in the blood, but also very often your blood insulin levels will be high (at least as long as your pancreas tries to produce more insulin to force the blood sugar into the cells).

Why insulin is ineffective at trying to push blood sugar into cells is, to my knowledge, not really known. There is probably some genetic component, but some also argue that this happens when there is too much fat in the cells and thus these cells refuse to take on any additional fuel.

Can pathological insulin resistance be reversed? Not sure about the answer to this question -- maybe not entirely or even if reversed, diabetics might be more prone to become insulin resistant again (which would speak for a genetic component). Regular exercise, building muscle, and losing weight will probably help to reduce pathological insulin resistance.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

I was going to start a thread about IR, but this looks to be similar in approach.

I was thinking that everyone must have a degree of IR - that is, if there is any insulin in the blood stream at all you must be resisting using it as long as there is any glucose in your blood.

I think when non-diabetics are at normal BG level they still have some insulin in their blood.

Just a passing thought.

 

[Guzzler]

Thank you Zig, clear as a bell.

 

[Kristin251]

Great explaination. I knew all this but no idea how to put it into words!

I know there are foods that make me IR. High animal fat, dairy, lots of nuts, all grains and starches as well as excess protein. I need to keep my glycogen stores as depleted as possible as once they’re full my bg is sure to be higher. Over eating protein and animal fat will keep me higher for days

 

[ziggy_w]

I was going to start a thread about IR, but this looks to be similar in approach.

I was thinking that everyone must have a degree of IR - that is, if there is any insulin in the blood stream at all you must be resisting using it as long as there is any glucose in your blood.

I think when non-diabetics are at normal BG level they still have some insulin in their blood.

Just a passing thought.

Hi @LittleGreyCat,

You are probably right about this. If I understand correctly, our pancreas (if functioning normally) constantly releases some insulin into the blood. Could it be that the liver also constantly releases some glucose also to keep everything in an equilibrium? Thus, cells would have a more constant supply of energy.

What is your take on this?

 

[Guzzler]

I saw a short presentation by a pharmacist on this. She wasn't looking for Phys. IR but when testing a control group for her small study into IR (inspired by Kraft's work) she found that some of the subjects although clearly non diabetic did indeed have a measure of IR. Testing herself she showed the same result.
It was one of the Low Carb presentations but I can't recall if it was a Down Under piece or one of the Breckenridge lectures. But it seems that more research is needed.

 

[Oldvatr]

Hi @LittleGreyCat,

You are probably right about this. If I understand correctly, our pancreas (if functioning normally) constantly releases some insulin into the blood. Could it be that the liver also constantly releases some glucose also to keep everything in an equilibrium? Thus, cells would have a more constant supply of energy.

What is your take on this?

The condition you describe here is called homeostasis, which is basically equilibrium. The body has many targets, such as weight, temperature, etc that it is designed to maintain. BGL is just one such parameter in the overall system known as man (homo sapiens)

 

[ziggy_w]

I saw a short presentation by a pharmacist on this. She wasn't looking for Phys. IR but when testing a control group for her small study into IR (inspired by Kraft's work) she found that some of the subjects although clearly non diabetic did indeed have a measure of IR. Testing herself she showed the same result.
It was one of the Low Carb presentations but I can't recall if it was a Down Under piece or one of the Breckenridge lectures. But it seems that more research is needed.

Hi @Guzzler,

I believe I have seen the same presentation. If I remember correctly, it was from the Ph.D. dissertation of this pharmacist. Edited to add: I did a quick google search: Is this the one you remember? https://pharmacistcatherine.net/

Probably, pathological insulin resistance is quite common -- but most people probably won't know about this unless their pancreas fails to keep up with increasing insulin needs and blood sugar levels increase.

I think it was Tim Noakes who said that everyone who was overweight has some degree of insulin resistance.

 

[Guzzler]

Hi @Guzzler,

I believe I have seen the same presentation. If I remember correctly, it was from the Ph.D. dissertation of this pharmacist. Edited to add: I did a quick google search: Is this the one you remember? https://pharmacistcatherine.net/

Probably, pathological insulin resistance is quite common -- but most people probably won't know about this unless their pancreas fails to keep up with increasing insulin needs and blood sugar levels increase.

I think it was Tim Noakes who said that everyone who was overweight has some degree of insulin resistance.

Aye, that looks like the lady who was presenting the findings.

It seems that it is not just the overweight who may be IR, though?

 

[ziggy_w]

Aye, that looks like the lady who was presenting the findings.

It seems that it is not just the overweight who may be IR, though?

You're right. She definitely doesn't look overweight, does she?

 

[Indy51]

Is this the presentation you saw?

 

[Guzzler]

Is this the presentation you saw?

It is, indeed. Thanks Indy.

 

[Indy51]

For anyone who wants to geek out on PIR, here are some various blogposts about it from Hyperlipid:

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com.au/2007/10/physiological-insulin-resistance.html
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com.au/2008/05/physiological-insulin-resistance-2-dawn.html
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com.au/2008/08/physiological-insulin-resistance.html
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com.au/2008/09/physiological-insulin-resistance.html
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com.au/2008/09/physiological-insulin-resistance-wild.html
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com.au/2008/09/terminator.html
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com.au/2009/09/physiological-insulin-resistance-and.html
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com.au/2009/09/physiological-insulin-restisance-guess.html
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com.au/2009/09/chewing-fat.html
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com.au/2010/02/physiological-insulin-resistance.html

And a couple of posts from Mark Sisson of Mark's Daily Apple:

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/do-low-carb-diets-cause-insulin-resistance/
https://www.marksdailyapple.com/does-eating-low-carb-cause-insulin-resistance/

 

[ickihun]

Hi @Guzzler,

I believe I have seen the same presentation. If I remember correctly, it was from the Ph.D. dissertation of this pharmacist. Edited to add: I did a quick google search: Is this the one you remember? https://pharmacistcatherine.net/

Probably, pathological insulin resistance is quite common -- but most people probably won't know about this unless their pancreas fails to keep up with increasing insulin needs and blood sugar levels increase.

I think it was Tim Noakes who said that everyone who was overweight has some degree of insulin resistance.

I agree with that. One son is a bit overweight and being monitored for leptin resistance via research and other son not overweight but craves chocolate.