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plant base

You're still failing to address that is only one graphic from one study, that you're not representing in its entirety, and the outcome favoured a PB diet. You're bending the facts to serve your POV. I think at the end of the day, you and I are coming from diametrically different positions and will never agree on this, so need to respectfully disagree and move on. I do think when referencing studies, all the information should be given and/or a link provided so people are not mislead and can draw their own conclusions (if I could work out how to post links I would but I get an error saying it's spam!). Anecdotal evidence is fine, but it's important to recognise we're all different and respond differently to different things - there's no one-size-fits-all solution.
 

It is a graphic from a study run by one of the most vocal pro vegan doctors.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2677007/

The outcome showed a PB diet produced slightly better results than the standard of care diet for a brief period but worsened over time.

It is about the only study of its length I have ever found.

I think it shows that long term PB diets are not great for long term T2 remission.

I think that is pretty clear from the results.
 
Comparing a standard diabetes diet to a vegan diet is not the same as comparing a low carb diet with a vegan diet.

I am pro choice, btw.
 
bulkbiker said:
That''s fine but long term it has been shown to be not especially effective I'm afraid.
View attachment 46997
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The graph (second time this thread) seems to show that a vegan diet is more effective than a "conventional" diet (whatever that is) but both diets show that long term the initial gains start to erode.

That certainly isn't an argument showing that vegan diets don't work compared to other diets.
 
Looking at the absolute HbA1c levels?
Hardly remission is it?
 
bulkbiker said:
Looking at the absolute HbA1c levels?
Hardly remission is it?
Click to expand...

Not the point.
You keep banging on about how it means that a plant based diet is rubbish.
The graph does not show that.
The graph shows that of the two chosen diets the vegan one performed better.

How about posting a comparison between a low carb full spectrum diet and a low carb vegan (or vegetarian) diet?
 
LittleGreyCat said:
The graph shows that of the two chosen diets the vegan one performed better.
Click to expand...

Performed marginally better than the SAD diet and over time led to a worsening of HbA1c levels.
If you think that's good then fine please try it. I think it's pretty rubbish.
 
LittleGreyCat said:
The graph does not show that.
The graph shows that of the two chosen diets the vegan one performed better.
Click to expand...
Yes, thats the point I was trying to make.

I would really like to see a comparison between vegan and low carb not vegan. In some respects, perhaps the results depend on how low carb one has to go to maintain good blood sugar levels?
 
lucylocket61 said:
Yes, thats the point I was trying to make.

I would really like to see a comparison between vegan and low carb not vegan. In some respects, perhaps the results depend on how low carb one has to go to maintain good blood sugar levels?
Click to expand...

Look at the results of most people here..
 
I note that the OP is using insulin. That would perhaps have an effect on the success of a plant based diet?
 
I think that my Hba1c of 42 would be off the lower edge of that famous graph by some way.
I do eat low carb foods which are fresh salads and veges, and enjoy them too, but I would be far below the amount of nourishment I require each day, so my 40 gm of carbs represents 160 calories, and the rest is from protein and fats - mainly from animal sources though I do use small amounts of olive oil for salad dressing, but a bottle lasts for quite a long time.
 
VioletFoxtrot said:
Walnut oil is also really delicious and good for vascular health. And hazelnut oil is so yummy on a salad.
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Ah - I have a stash of walnuts, and brazils, and almonds and Grapetree will be getting further orders for all sorts of goodies in future. It is only my dislike of olives in their natural form that causes me to buy the oil as the next best option. I like foods as close to their natural form as possible.
 
Resurgam said:
I like foods as close to their natural form as possible.
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I'm not anti-oil, but I eat a lot of nuts too. I just like to have a diverse range of different oils and not just stick to EVOO. I dislike most olives too (so salty!) but love Sicilian olives because they're so mild and just like little green olive oil bombs. Love nuts and eat lots of them in all different forms!
 
I love green olives stuffed with garlic
 
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