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Please help - very awkward question

That's him Winnie and also look at Dr Sarah Halberg in mTor she explains its importance so well.


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KevinPotts said:
That's him Winnie and also look at Dr Sarah Halberg in mTor she explains its importance so well.


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So Kevin, do you believe in the mTOR?
Ever since I read the Rosedale Diet and reduced my protein my bs as well as other blood markers fell tight into place. I realize it's relatively new but I am all over it. At 1st I thought it was much too little but I adapted quite well. According to the video above I should be eating between 30 and 37 and coincidentally that is what feels perfect.
 
@Kristin251 I've thanked you privately, but I want to thank you publicly too.

After two weeks of the lowest blood glucose levels I've had in ten years - 15 to 20 mg/dL lower than it's been in a year, my BG began climbing this week. It was scary.

Yesterday, my fasting glucose was (113 mg/dL), not great but not bad. Pre-lunch was 112. Pre-dinner glucose following a mid-day lunch and a late afternoon snack of two Reese Pieces Peanut Butter cups, my 2-hour post snack glucose was 149. (I know I was bad. I rarely do this. It was a high demand day at work.)

Had a dinner of pot roast, sauted vegetables with some potato added. One hour post meal glucose was 161 so went for a 20 minute walk. That dropped my glucose down to 120 so watched a movie. Two hours later, glucose climbed to 131. Went to bed. Woke up this morning with a glucose of 142. That really upset me. I haven't had a fasting glucose that high in more than a year.

This morning, I decided to weigh and limit my protein intake to 2 ounces per meal, and for the first time this week, blood glucose levels are coming back down again. Pre-lunch glucose was 108. 2 hour post lunch glucose was 105. Relieved. Thank you!

@KevinPotts Sarah Halberg, M.D. is another hero of mine. Will look for her video on mTOR this weekend. I plan to share this information with our local diabetes group in June. Thank you!

Lisa
 

Absolutely. The mTor pathway was a critical piece of substantial scientific breakthrough by Sabatini. I found it tough science to understand, but when the penny dropped, it made so much sense to me. What is less understood is the mTorc2 path. Most of the understanding so far is with mTorc1.


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KevinPotts said:
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Lisa, look for "Dr. Sarah Hallberg’s presentation on LCHF, LDL, particle size, residence time and risk." Her presentation has some good graphics which describes superbly the interconnection between LDL and the mTor pathway.


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@KevinPotts I did find Dr. Hallberg's presentation in the member area of the Diet Doctor website. Thank you.

I had a hard time following her presentation because she used a lot of terms that were unfamiliar to me. I wish the presenters at Vail had been given more time. I had this same problem with Dr. Rosedale's presentation too. I made good use of the pause button. That said, it was reassuring to hear her speak specifically to the problem of rising LDL levels in a minority of patients on the LCHF diet. I think she's right. More research needs to be done. That many of those same patients are sometimes able to continue on the diet by reducing their intake of saturated fat was encouraging. Limiting bulletproof coffees was one suggestion.

While there, I watched a quite a few presentations. The one by Nina Teicholz, author of The Big Fat Surprise, at the Paleo f(x) 2015 event, was particularly informative. She reviewed the 100+ year history of vegetable oils. It's a fascinating story. Need to read her book now.
 
I did the same with the pause button and had to watch her presentation twice. I think there are a lot of medics in the audience. Nina's history tour was great I do like her and she is paying a high price for her principle journalism.


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Hi Winnie, thank you too and you are very welcome
Sorry to hear about your bs but not the end of the world as you know. I have a mantra " one bad meal equals 3 bad days". It seems even if I just over indulge in my normal good diabetic friendly foods it still takes days to get back to normal. I do commend you for at least choosing recess PB cups. Nothing better than PB and chocolate. Well, maybe a dark chocolate covered strawberry. Haha. Anyway, it will come back down as you are seeing.
I understand too well how waking up higher than bed is frustrating. This is one other thing Rosedale taught me. Walk slow to moderate. Too much or too strenuous activity will raise you. Once your heart rate goes up adrenaline will kick in and raise you. I would get frustrated after a power walk and actually go up! Then I started a 15 min slow to moderate walks and it fell back into place. Those are the two min things Rosedale taught me.
Also that once I'm IR it takes more time than the food was worth to come back to normal. That's why now I have learned one bite and savor the flavor is enough.

All that being said I had one stinking piece of cheese last night and bs running 15-20 higher all day. I know better but sometimes I just don't care....until the next day. That particular cheese was not worth it and I'm still paying the price. Highest was 114 but higher than I like. Even took a small correction dose and it popped back up. Sometimes it's just a matter of time to regain sensitivity. Now give me some melted Brie or smoked Gouda it might have been worth it. In the end it confirmed once again dairy is not my friend. Tummy not so good today either.

If I need bs to come back faster I cut way back on protein and meal size. I love guac and it has very little effect on my bs so I can eat a meal of it with celery sticks. Seems to deplete my glycogen stores and increase sensativity. I believe, but not sure, once I over eat carbs or protein and my glycogen sores are full everything turns to BS until they are depleted and I am back into ketosis.

Glad you are getting back to normal. Always nice to chat with you
 
Kristin, yes, yes, yes. I identify so strongly with everything you've said. I'm under a time pressure right now due to a project I've put off until the twelfth hour. Blood glucose levels back to normal again. Will get back to you tomorrow night, if not sooner.
 
Glad my tid bits are helping. I have been through all the stages of diabetes and super surprisingly T 1 and T 2 require the same basic diet FOR ME to keep the same steady numbers. Unfortunately now exercise only raise me.

We seem to be very much on the same page
 
Hi Kevin, could you just give me a brief synopsis of mTOR 1 and 2. You are much brighter than me. Lol

In any event , protein makes a huge difference in my bs as I have stated previously. Some don't feel there's enough evidence and research but not only my bs says so, so does my body.

I'm too lazy to make heads or tails of it and you've already done it so if you could pass it along to me I would appreciate it emensly.

Thanks
 
mTor is a pathway that as I understand it is a bit like a central controller of cell growth, metabolism, proliferation right down to survival in every thing from yeast to all mammals. As such it plays a key role in development and ageing.

Sabatini discovered that the pathway is activated during certain cellular processes such as cancer causing tumour formation and insulin resistance to name a couple. It is deactivated in full blown diseases such as cancer and T2. Clinically, developing inhibitors of mTor such as rapamycin, has received a lot of attention with an emphasis on helping deal with solid tumours, coronary disease, transplants etc.

It has also been implicated in disorders such as cancer, cardiovascular disease, obesity, and diabetes.

The current challenge from what I've read seems to be to understand the role of mTOR signaling to coordinate and integrate overall body growth in multicellular organisms.

David Sabatini's work started with identifying that mTor was the target of the rapamycin molecule. It is this molecule that has been found effective as an immunosuppressant, anti- cancer, prolonging life in model animals (mice etc). It looks like a strong possibility that in view of the life prolonging research, there maybe an FDA approved molecule including the rapamycin property.

So as Sabatini explains this complicated pathway:

1. Nutrients, oxygen, energy and growth factors interact with mTor which is directly bound by rapamycin

2. The most interesting part for Sabatini, is that the pathway has the capacity to sense EVERYTHING. Any kind of growth factor, nutrient, stress, DNA damage everything. Somehow this system recognises it and that tells us that the cell cares a lot about regulating this system.

3. In addition, mTor is involved in all the processes in the cell that either use or make energy. So in a nutshell, this is the key pathway in regulating cell physiology.

So the driver of this process is typically food (either manipulated by caloric restriction) or obesity or different types of diet to the balance between an anabolism (the work of the liver on life supporting balance from the broken down molecules) v catabolism (process of breaking down molecules and transporting to the liver).

Thinking of our conditions of course, insulin falls within the "growth factor" category.

His more recent work has included the fact that what he calls "Caloric Restriction" prolongs life in all life, from stem cells to humans as part of a lifestyle of caloric reduction.

He and is team found that as one example the stem cells in the lining of the gut respond well to reducing calories. The amount and activity of these cells decreases. His particular interest has been that this type of cell, is usually the origin of cancer causing cells and when mutations occur the cell is transformed and acquires cancer like properties. This is called tumour initiation leading to tumour growth. Thus prolonged calorie restriction reduces the incidence of tumours, prolonging life and the two major pathways play their critical part on every occasion.

Yes there are 2, mTorc1 and mTorc2.

Both pathways are surrounded by a variety of different mutations found commonly in cancer. Insulin operates with mTorc 2.

So, a pathway such as this has to sense two types of classes of molecules to make the decision to grow or Not grow via nutrient intake and hormones such as insulin and make a decision as to whether both are present (nutrient and hormone) and so drive growth. All these factors signal to the cell via a number of steps along the pathway and thus the impact of this pathway, triggered by nutrients and hormones leads to the balance of our bodily systems and ultimately survival.

That's about the most succinct way I as an amateur is able to describe its place and importance.

Certainly the presentations of Dr Sarah Halberg that I mentioned previously focus in more on its impact for us as diabetics.

I hope I've been clear enough....if not my apologies.







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Kevin,

Thank you very much for your detailed explanation.
I don't purposely do calorie restriction but I don't eat a lot of them either. Under 1200 I would assume on most days. I eat small meals and a few small snacks. I'm somewhat limited to how small because I need insulin even for just lettuce lol. So I need to eat enough for the insulin but not too much. I loved fasting when I was T2 but doesn't really work now so I just keep things small. Digestive issues too.
Rosedale was the first I've heard of this but I lowered protein more for BS issues and everything fell into place.
It's all fascinating to me. All these pathways and how our bodies react to different foods dependent on which stage of the game you're in. Amazing
 
You're right it's incredible and also the fact that Sabatini, who is still only a young man only relatively recently discovered the impact of the rapamycin molecule on the mTor pathways.

Makes me excited thinking about what they will fundamentally discover in the next decade.


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Well done on your 1st weight loss! My Dietician told me that Metformin causes wind. I know how embarrassing that can be but at the rate you are going, you won't be on them for much longer. Keep up the good work.
 
Hi horse and welcome to the group, i think ul find it very helpful, with advice & topics , interesting questions ( some sad news on the rare occasion ) but we do have a laugh now and again, well at least this is how I've found it to be for myself, i dont often post but concidering asking a question myself so thought id let u know that to had the same/similar symptoms as urself with metaformin , my DN stopped it straight away and put me on a different medication instant results no more running to the loo, so most definitely worth mentioning this to ur GP or DN, good luck

HELEN
 
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