Please help - very awkward question

Horse_0101

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Hi all, can someone help, newly diagnosed Type 2, about 6 weeks ago.

I have been trying to cut carbs and have lost about 16 lbs. I take Atorvastatin, Ramipril (blood pressure) and Citalopram ( keeps me sane)

All was well to start with but quite quickly I developed loose stools ( sorry if your eating). Two days ago it was really bad, it kept me in all day.
My stomach is groaning, out loud and I am definitely more windy ( than usual).

I'm eating more Greek yogurt, nuts and berries than I use to. I have previously had IBS but have good control with no real issues. Pre diagnosis.

Any help would be great.
 

urbanracer

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eldergarth

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Hi all, can someone help, newly diagnosed Type 2, about 6 weeks ago.

I have been trying to cut carbs and have lost about 16 lbs. I take Atorvastatin, Ramipril (blood pressure) and Citalopram ( keeps me sane)

All was well to start with but quite quickly I developed loose stools ( sorry if your eating). Two days ago it was really bad, it kept me in all day.
My stomach is groaning, out loud and I am definitely more windy ( than usual).

I'm eating more Greek yogurt, nuts and berries than I use to. I have previously had IBS but have good control with no real issues. Pre diagnosis.

Any help would be great.
hi and welcome to the forum I will tag @daisy1 who will be along to give you some very good info to help control your diabetes
your problem with the loose stools is normal when switching your diet to low carp and will settle in a couple of days
you need to replace the carbs with high fat and high protein and you will find your stomach will soon settle and you will feel fuller for longer
good luck and ask as many questions as you like
 
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daisy1

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@Horse_0101

Hello and welcome to the forum. I hope your stomach problems will settle soon, perhaps with a change of diet. Here is the information we give to new members and I hope you will find it useful. Ask more questions and someone will be able to help.

BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find over 150,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

  • Reduce your carbohydrate intake
  • Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes-and-whole-grains.html

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

LOW CARB PROGRAM:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/low carb program


Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)
  • Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l
However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

  • structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
  • self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to bloodglucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
 
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muzza3

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Hi @Horse_0101

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on the 16lb weight loss which is a great effort. The loose bowels could be related to the change of diet but if it persists probably best to contact your GP. How are your Blood Glucose Levels? Are you self testing?
 

Winnie53

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@Horse_0101 Welcome to the forum.

I have IBD, so understand how difficult flares can be. Curious as to what you've eaten over the last three days. Are you eating any foods that you normally don't eat? That might give me a clue as to what's going on. You listed three medications. Are you taking any supplements? Also, are you taking any fiber? There's lots of possible causes for your symptoms.

I agree with an earlier post, might be due to one of your medications. When starting the LCHF diet, people report needing to reduce the dosage on their diabetes and high blood pressure medications. I wonder if this may be true for other medications too. I don't know. I think it would be helpful to give your doctor an opportunity to weigh in on what might be going on. :)
 

Kristin251

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I agree with meds but dairy? Is that new? IBS and dairy usually don't go together well.
 

Stallen

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@Horse_0101 what sort of nuts are you eating? As some nuts can have this effect if over eaten and make you very unwell.
 

Horse_0101

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Ages since I replied. Sorry. Well I thought it was the Statins stopped them symptoms went away. Unfortunately stopped eating Pecan and Walnuts as well ( ran out). It's the nuts, stomach restarted with nut consumption restart. So will talk to medics and probably back on statins. However as I posted, 12 weeks in, my first check up and 1 st lighter and in remission readings down from 49 to 42. Here's hoping.


Sent from my iPhone using DCUK Forum mobile app
 
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Liam1955

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@Horse_0101 - Hi.:) Don't eat the nuts!.. why not boil some eggs and when cool put them in the fridge and when you fancy a snack = have a boiled egg. (Or 2). Your HBA1C result of 42 puts in you in the prediabetic range: 42 to 47. Well Done.:)
 

Winnie53

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@Horse_0101 congrats!

Looking back through this thread, I think it's more likely the store bought yogurt that caused the problem - (which Kristen pointed out in an earlier post) - but the nuts could have contributed too for two reasons:

1) I looked at the Specific Carbohydrate Diet "Legal" and "Illegal" food list and it said nuts are fine, but only in flour form until diarrhea has remitteded...

Pecans... http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/legal/listing/P/
Walnuts... http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/legal/listing/W/
Yogurt... http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/legal/listing/Y/

I tolerated well 1 to 2 ounces of raw nuts a day during my active flare in 2015, but everyone is different.

Looking back, I believe my second IBD flare in 2000 was caused by eating French fries deep fried in oil, probably peanut, 5 days a week, with breaded cod or a ground sirloin burger. I got better after I switched to a daily baked potato with butter, and limited my intake of deep fried fish and oysters. I now understand that when these oils are heated they are damaged and unhealthy.

I mention this only because the low carb diet uses raw nuts only. Nuts that are roasted with oils high in omega 6 fatty acids are damaged and unhealthy. Also not sure how roasting affects the nutrients in the nuts.

Glad you're doing well!
 
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Kristin251

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Also a nut isn't a nut. I have reactions to almonds walnuts and pecans. I can't seem to limit them but I have no problem eating one or two peanuts cashews or pistachios. I like pumpkin seeds too. If I over eat any nut it stops my digestion. One spoonful of yogurt and I get growly.

It would have been the gluten in the fish coating and most likely the bad oils that would upset my stomach.
 

Winnie53

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Kristen, do you think you've developed a food sensitivity to those nuts due to "leaky gut" or intestinal permeability? Your point is well taken. If you have a specific food sensitivity, continuing to eat that food leads to inflammatory processes, something that only makes our health worse.

I tested positive for non-celiac gluten sensitivity in 2011, so gave up all sources of gluten. I felt better, though I'm one of the 60% that have no symptoms when accidentally exposed to gluten, so I have to be very, very careful.

Even so, I went on to develop food sensitivities to coffee and chocolate...[sigh]. When I was re-diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in February 2015, I had just left my job for the second time, so decided to take the time off I needed to completely re-evaluate everything I was doing healthwise. I think at the time I tallied up 5 or 6 health issues, half autoimmune. Most are much better now, except for the subclinical hyperthyroid.

But here's what I don't, or didn't understand: "When I gave up gluten in 2011, why did I go on to develop food sensitivities?"

I may have found an answer. A few months ago I listened to a lecture by Joseph Pizzorno, a naturopath and founder of Bastyr University in Seattle, Washington, close to where I live in the US. He explained that heavy metals - (mercury, lead, cadmium) - and persistent organic pollutants (POPs) - (toxic chemicals that adversely affect human health and the environment around the world) - in our food supply, etc. is more likely the cause of type 2 diabetes than our increased consumption of sugar, and he has graphs to show a correlation, which I understand is not causation, but still it's interesting to consider.

To improve my blood glucose levels, I decided to give up all grains last year. So glad I did.

Since that time I've learned that in the US, almost all corn and soybean crops are GMO now, so now if I eat soy, I only eat organic soy, preferably fermented. But here's the worse part. I also learned that Roundup, which contains glyphosate, is being used on grains other than wheat in the US, oats too in the weeks prior to harvest. And another shocker, for those of you in the UK, is that the US is exporting a lot of this soy and corn to the UK to feed livestock in the UK. This surprised me. I thought those of you in the UK had avoided the GMO/glyphosate problem in your food supply.

Adding to the puzzle is that I recently had the genetic test to determine if I had the genes for celiac disease. I don't.

I'm now hearing some discussion among experts that glyphosate, not gluten, may be driving the huge increase in non-celiac gluten sensitivity, which makes sense, because glyphosate is used on wheat, and some other grains.

Now that I know this is a possibility, I'm continuing to avoid all grains. I'm avoiding eating out. And I'm eating organic, whole foods only. Hoping, hoping that will stop the damage to my microbiome, allow my gut to heal, and prevent the development of additional food sensitivities.

Another thing I'm learning is that diabetes is also likely driven by the wrong bacteria in the microbiome. I've never made a fermented food in my life, but my goal is to learn how to do it and to begin making fermented foods from organic produce, locally grown, to eat daily this year.

Apologies for hijacking this thread. It's just that diabetes, food sensitivities, IBD, and IBS has become a much, much more complex topic for me as I continue to listen to lectures and read books by experts.
 
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Kristin251

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Winnie, I know everything you are saying. I as well as my daughter are non celiac gluten intolerant. She buckles over in pain upon ingestion of the smallest partial. I don't get intestinal issues. I get very moody and cry easily the next day. My daughters room mate is the same as me.
I believe I have SIBO and there is no cure. I also react to gluten cross reactive foods such as chocolate, coffee, sesame, dairy corn and soy as well as all the other grains. I have tried GAPS, SCD, FODMAPS etc. one diet that did help at my worst was the blood type diet but a low carb version. It was a key point in foods I was reacting to and I naturally gravitated to a lot of the foods that are good for me and already knew many of the ones I was sto avoid.
Broth whitch is highly recommended to heal the gut becomes MSG which I don't tolerate at all. I don't eat any grains or starch sugar etc due to diabetes. No dairy due to inflammation, limit nightshades due to inflammation, I found myself eliminating everything but lettuce and salad greens. I don't do that anymore. I need to live. I know small quantities of some foods I tolerate ok and will eat them occasionally. One caution on fermented foods is if you have SIBO they can be a nightmare. Probiotics, prebiotics and fermented foods will exasperate SIBO. Corn and all its derivatives are worse for me than gluten. So I eat neither. I don't eat soy ever. I am very careful with non GMO foods and most of my veggies are organic, fish is wild Alaskan, poultry is organic or at least hormone and antibiotic free. I. I no
longer get stomach pain and bloating is so much less than it was.
I sure there is something with heavy metals but I don't want to know. It is very hard to chelate and very uncomfortable. I spent years being afraid to put anything in my mouth. I refuse to live that way now. There is no perfect food and that stress will kill me faster than anything. I basically eat the same meals that I know work with some occasional add ins. I just don't eat them everyday. Except coffee. I know I react and I know it's not good for me but it is a simple pleasure. I react to so much and have eliminated so much I need a few simple pleasures. One can only eliminate so much and with SIBO there is no cure other than massive rounds of antibiotics. I'm not going there. In the end there is something wrong with any food. Diabetes and a diabetic diet is enough to contend with. I just do the best I can when I can. I can eat the same things everyday and get a different reaction. I'm tired of trying to figure it all out.
 

Winnie53

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Kristin, thank you for sharing what's happening to you. It's so validating to know that I'm not alone.

I belong to a local gluten-free group that I attend once or twice a year. The facilitator is an acquaintance that I've known for maybe 10 years now. We talk and email back an forth a bit too.

Here's the thing. I thought it was just the "gluten", that if I eliminated it from my diet, everything else would fall into place. But it didn't, and it doesn't. However, it was an important first step.

I joined this group five years ago. The people who get better are doing a lot of different things. It's like a part-time job. And it's a long process. But some have recovered which is encouraging. I've interviewed a few of them.

Another woman, whose diet has been limited to roast beef and potatoes for years, has made progress too, though it's been steps forward, then set backs, more steps forward, etc. That she's made any progress at all has been a miracle.

SIBO is big problem to tackle. I understand. There's two women from the gluten-free group that I met with regularly over the summer last year. At the time, we'd discussed taking her ill sister to Portland, Oregon to see a naturopath who specializes in treating SIBO. Here's a link to information on her work... http://www.siboinfo.com/dr-siebeckers-bio.html

She's about 5 hours south of me. Will get in touch with my acquaintance to see if she followed through with developing a working relationship with this practitioner, also if it helped. Her sister's condition is quite complex.

I do hear what you're saying. It's overwhelming. Every time I talk with my former employer, she asks if I've gotten a new job yet. It's uncomfortable. How many times can I say, not yet? But I worry if I get a new job, I'll lose my daily routines and get sick again due to the time pressures and stress. What I can tell you is that Dr. Pizzorno is coming out with his book, The Detox Diet, in January 2017. My impression is that the methods he uses to detox patients take a few years, so it's gentler. I'm holding off on doing a detox until I read that book.

Will get back to you if I learn anything that I think will be useful to you. Thanks for the heads up on SIBO worsening with fermented foods. I'll go slow, very slow when I get there. I don't get onto this site as much as I used to, but I'd like to stay in touch with you.
 

Kristin251

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Winnie, sounds great and you ARE NOT ALONE. I don't have an actual diagnosis of SIBO but I fit the bill. I can definately say I am better. Much better. But I eat the foods I know work and forget the rest. Nobody can eat a huge variety of foods with no consequences. Being over weight to me is a consequence as fat is stored toxins. I am not fat and I know what makes me fat. Grains dairy sugar starch etc. they don't only make me fat but cause digestive upset and inflammation . Looking back to my childhood when I didn't know better I now know I have always been carb intolerant.
My daughter developed severe stomach issues at about 12. She was always in pain and crying. She is now 27 and very paleo. She is much better but I have spent those 15 years researching food and nutrition so I am very aware. I just got to the point when I was DX 'd T 1 just over 2 years ago that enough was enough fearing food. Constantly eliminating. And truth be told the more I eliminated the worse I got. If you have crystal clear water and throw some mud in it will show up immediately. If you have slightly dirty water it gets less notice. The body is designed to cleanse and if you do t use it you will lose it. It needs a hormesis once in awhile. I stay very far from grains corn soy and dairy because I don't believe they are health foods at all but the rest I will eat occasionally as I wish. I can eat perfect and have. Horrid do nd I can eat horrid and have a perfect day. I try to balance. Like you said, step back step ahead. I actually have felt best since I adapted the thought stress will kill me before any food. It is true. The silent killer. As if diabetes isn't enough. I see you are T 2. Good for you. I am not as fortunate however insulin has not only saved my life but also helps me absorb my nutrients so I have gotten better for sure. Our food chain stinks and we can only do so much. We need food to live but reducing and eliminating got me nowhere. I also know I can't fight Mother Nature. If it's in my genes it's in my genes. I can try to alter them but it is an uncomfortable fight.


As far as fermented food I would recommend buying some organic kimchi or Burpiea pickles and start with just a tap of the juice before you waste your time and money on making your own. IF you have SIBO you will not tolerate them and as I have read you never will. I have tried forcing my body to learn and it said no haha
Eat what works for you and forget the rest. Just don't limit yourself to a vey small window. It's very hard to get it back. It has also been said the cleaner we eat the more intolerant we become. I am a perfect example.

I apologize ahead of time for auto correct not having a clue what I am saying after a post reply.
 

Kristin251

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I just want to add that the FODMAPS diet helped to as far as portions. For some reason I have no problems with avocado but huge wit garlic. Onion and garlic powders are awful. I can use garlic oil with no problem. There are foods allowed on SCD/GAPS that I cannot eat , such as broth. No one diet works. I found my own. And again everyday is different. Intolerate foods some days and not others but I am still light years ahead of 2 years ago. I just don't force anything because it supposed to be good for me. In fact they are some of the worst foods for me. I found my staple foods and instick to them and the add Ina few occasionals as I see fit

I wish you good health and good luck finding your foods. My staples are a reasonable amount of salad greens ( though day to ove eat) avocado quality protein mayo olive oil celery radish no small amounts of steamed veggies. The amount depends on the veg. Asparagus broccoli and broccoflower are my favorites but need to be very small. Barely worth cooking and a few , very few nuts and seeds as snacks
 

Winnie53

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Ah, the dreaded spell check. It's been good to talk with you Kristin. Our conversation has helped me see that I have a good working plan, and I can slow down now, and implement each new strategy, one at a time, at a comfortable pace, particularly now that my IBD is solidly back in remission.

I don't know if I have SIBO or not. Adding ground flaxseed to my diet for three weeks early last year yanked me out of a 15 year remission from IBD for a good 9 months. I won't do that again. I was so sick.

And I absolutely agree with you about avoiding the foods you list, though still occasionally eating hard cheeses when I make pesto for example. I've been adding 1 to 2 tablespoons of sweet potato back into my diet, mixed in with freshly steamed vegetables, once a week or so, and so far so good. But I'm very wary and taking it slow.

Heading out to walk with my diabetes group now.

Thank you Kristin. I greatly appreciate your hard won experience. It's encouraging to hear how well you're doing. :)
 
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