Post AM Fasted Resistance Training Insulin Resistance

[Brendon.Dean]

Hey everyone, hope y'all are having a wonderful day

So, I have a bit of an issue that has become problematic and it's the biggest hurdle I have in my day to day diabetes management that I haven't figured out how to overcome but figured you guys might have some interesting ideas or insights

Basically, my routine is as follows MON-FRI;

4-5AM- Wake up; pre bolus 2U of fast acting insulin for gym
6-7AM- Resistance Training (Circuit, Bodybuilding, Interval, Crossfit)
8AM - Eat Breakfast; pre bolus 20 min (Leafy Greens and fruit)
8:30-1PM - Work (Moslty walking around and pre picking products)
1-1:30PM - Lunch; pre bolus 20-25 mins (Rice, Beans, Veggies)
1:30-4:30 - Work (Mostly walking or standing/sitting sometimes)
6PM - Dinner; pre bolus 20 min (Sweet/White potato, barley & veggies)
7PM - Long acting insulin
8:30-9:30PM - Somewhere in between there I go to sleep.

So that's a general overview just to give you an idea of the majority of my week.

My problem:

The post meal spike from my breakfast causes my blood sugars to go high enough that I feel symptoms such as lethargy, increased thirst/urination, fatigue, irritable, and hunger (I feel this way for between 2-3hrs daily). I can see on my CGM very consistently that the rise starts at 8:30AM, peaks around 9:15AM and crashes to a low blood sugar between 11:20AM and 12:00PM. The spike ranges anywhere from 14mmol/L to 18 mmol/L.

When I decrease the amount of insulin my spike is higher and my sugars either stay high and don't drop or spike high and drop within the higher end of in range. When I increase insulin the spike is slightly less, more in the 12-15 mmol/L range but then I crash hard and have a severe hypo.


I understand there are tons of hormones at play from resistance training as well as morning hormones so I would like to share some more insight on my body when I fast.

When I fast I am able to maintain perfect blood glucose in the 5mmol/L range.

Another insight I would like to share that might provide some more insight is that when I fast, even if I were to fast 16, 17, 22, 25 hours, regardless, the very FIRST meal I consume in a day OR after prolonged abstinence from food, I have an extremely high blood glucose spike and insulin resistance.

I'm pretty lean and muscular @ 6'2 - 210lbs

So what do you guys think? Do you see anything, any patterns, any solutions or maybe there's something you can offer to me that I should start tracking/monitoring that would provide me with the insight to adjust something that could help.

Either way, it's always nice posting here, some of the most helpful and nicest people come from these forums


Thanks y'all, from Canada!

 

[Antje77]

What about pre-bolusing by a bit more (carefully!)? Or lowering your breakfast carbs? Like you, I found my first meal of the day, regardless of time, spikes me much more that other meals, so I try to keep my breakfast carbs very low. Even with a low carb breakfast my body seems to be sufficiently woken up to act more or less as expected with later meals.

It could also be that you spike more from fruit than from other carbs. Most fruits I only use as hypo treatment because for me they almost act like sweets: sharp spike and quickly out of my system. Not something I would choose in the morning when I'm more prone to spikes anyway.

Another type of insulin can be of help too. Since I've switched from Novorapid to Fiasp I haven't needed to pre bolus for moderate carb meals, I can just inject and eat, provided I'm not too high to start with.

Hope one or more of my experiences may be of use to you!

 

[Brendon.Dean]

What about pre-bolusing by a bit more (carefully!)? Or lowering your breakfast carbs? Like you, I found my first meal of the day, regardless of time, spikes me much more that other meals, so I try to keep my breakfast carbs very low. Even with a low carb breakfast my body seems to be sufficiently woken up to act more or less as expected with later meals.

It could also be that you spike more from fruit than from other carbs. Most fruits I only use as hypo treatment because for me they almost act like sweets: sharp spike and quickly out of my system. Not something I would choose in the morning when I'm more prone to spikes anyway.

Another type of insulin can be of help too. Since I've switched from Novorapid to Fiasp I haven't needed to pre bolus for moderate carb meals, I can just inject and eat, provided I'm not too high to start with.

Hope one or more of my experiences may be of use to you!

So increasing the pre bolus time from 20 minutes to maybe 30 and so on? Lowering the carbs doesn't work because I still get the spike and I'm left terribly hungry lol. Yeah I know what you mean about your body being woken up!

I would have to do a lot of testing with fruits but my body digests them and gives amazing blood sugars after meal one so I don't know yet.

Thank you for the input, it is much appreciated!

 

[Antje77]

So increasing the pre bolus time from 20 minutes to maybe 30 and so on?

That's what I did on novorapid, worked pretty well for me. (But Fiasp is better for me because I'm not very good at timing my meals and not get distracted...)

Lowering the carbs doesn't work because I still get the spike and I'm left terribly hungry

Do you mean if you were to substitute your breakfast fruit for eggs, tofu or meat you would be hungrier than when you eat the fruit?

 

[Brendon.Dean]

That's what I did on novorapid, worked pretty well for me. (But Fiasp is better for me because I'm not very good at timing my meals and not get distracted...)

Do you mean if you were to substitute your breakfast fruit for eggs, tofu or meat you would be hungrier than when you eat the fruit?

I will try the longer pre bolus

Yes that is what I mean and also eggs and tofu wouldn't be possible for me because I eat only whole foods and no meat/dairy.

 

[Antje77]

Yes that is what I mean and also eggs and tofu wouldn't be possible for me because I eat only whole foods and no meat/dairy.

Ah, I see how it would be more complicated with your food choices. I guessed vegetarian or vegan from your menu but with tofu like things out I understand it's difficult to fill up.
I hope you'll find improvement with prebolusing alone.

What about things like avocado's and nuts? The fat content would be more filling than only leafy greens, and they're unprocessed whole foods?
Mind, I pretty much eat anything, and apart from knowing about carbs to base my insulin dose on I'm not very knowledgable about foods, so my suggestion is pretty much just a wild thought based on how would I try to fill up with those restrictions, please don't take it as advice

Good luck!

 

[Brendon.Dean]

Ah, I see how it would be more complicated with your food choices. I guessed vegetarian or vegan from your menu but with tofu like things out I understand it's difficult to fill up.
I hope you'll find improvement with prebolusing alone.

What about things like avocado's and nuts? The fat content would be more filling than only leafy greens, and they're unprocessed whole foods?
Mind, I pretty much eat anything, and apart from knowing about carbs to base my insulin dose on I'm not very knowledgable about foods, so my suggestion is pretty much just a wild thought based on how would I try to fill up with those restrictions, please don't take it as advice

Good luck!

Haha well you were pretty close in your guess! I think people call what I do Whole foods plant based but I'm not a fan of being considered under a "diet" so I just like to say I eat whole foods

I don't touch those foods because the fat causes all kinds of problems with insulin resistance for me. I stay strict to high carbohydrates, super low fat around 120-130g protein daily so that carbs are in and carbs are out!

I still appreciate the input!

 

[Brendon.Dean]

In case anyone was wondering, I managed to fix this problem following Antje77 advice of pre bolusing more in advance.

By pre bolusing 50-60 minutes before my breakfast I’ve been able to eat 90-120g carbs with minimal spikes under 10 mmol/L and for mostly under 8 mmol/L.

I’m absolutely incredibly happy with the outcome because now my blood sugars have remained in range nearly 24:7 so thank you