1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Prescribed Metformin but wondering I can do this on diet alone

Discussion in 'Newly Diagnosed' started by Nicole T, Jul 19, 2020.

  1. Nicole T

    Nicole T Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    639
    Trophy Points:
    113
    On the final day of (maybe) my final Libre. I had a bit of a break between the last one and this, and seem to have lost the impetus somewhat. I'm no longer obsessively scanning it at less than 8 hour intervals, so I'm getting some breaks in my data. This was going to be my "Let's see what metformin does" sensor, but since my A1c came back within normal (high normal, but not even pre-diabetic) range, I think I can relax a little on my monitoring, though not on my diet.

    So I'm back to the GlucoRx-Q and Tee2+ meters, both of which are consistently disagreeing. For once, I actually got a figure less than 1mmol/l difference between them just now, but the Tee2+ still reads higher than the GlucoRx-Q, while the average from the GlucoRx-Q is closer to my most recent HbA1c test result.

    I've only really been taking morning (fasting) readings on both while I've had the Libre on, and even then, not every day. Average on the GlucoRx-Q is 6.5, which would translate to an A1c of 39 (exactly my last test result.) The Tee2+ is averaging 8.3, which would translate to an A1c of 51. Obviously you can't calculate an average from one snapshot blood test every day, but I'm leaning towards believing the GlucoRx-Q to be more accurate than the Tee2+.

    Last 2 blood readings are 6.8 GlucoRx-Q and 7.6, Tee2+. These correlate with a 7.0 'steady' out of Libre at the time, followed by a 5.9 'steady' 15 minutes afterwards.

    I really do wonder whether random numbers on a dartboard are the way forward with blood sugar monitoring. No expensive sensor discs or test strips, just chuck a dart and see where it lands.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  2. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    12,404
    Likes Received:
    18,807
    Trophy Points:
    298

    To be honest for an unmedicated type 2 or someone on metformin+ diet then it's the general trends that are important rather than the absolute numbers. So for me being consistent with which meter/tool you use to judge progress or trends is the important thing.

    There's a whole other debate about the extent to which average finger pricks/Libre readings correlate to HbA1c anyway with a number of members on here consistently getting HbA1cs which are either higher or lower than would be expected, and that's to do with the processes (and there is more than one method depending on which lab your bloods go to) by which lab results are analysed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Nicole T

    Nicole T Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    639
    Trophy Points:
    113
    At the same time, from the same blood droplet again. I'm about to open the test solution pack for the Tee2+ IMG_20201202_174613.jpg
     
    • Hug Hug x 1
  4. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,789
    Likes Received:
    7,008
    Trophy Points:
    298
    This really is a bigger difference than I would expect (unless it being a one off), and I have tested various meters against eachother.
     
  5. Nicole T

    Nicole T Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    639
    Trophy Points:
    113
    2 hours after an Iceland crispy duck to myself. Bit naughty, but I wanted to do it while I still had my Libre on (which hasn't gone above 9.9 the whole time) and I had nobody to share it with tonight.

    These 2 readings are a bit closer, but still over 1 mmol/l difference. The Tee2+ tested pretty much dead centre on its ranges with the test solutions. Though that a known glucose solution can test anywhere between 6.1 and 9.2 doesn't fill you with confidence, I suppose that's the 15% tolerance each way that's typical of these units. IMG_20201202_200416.jpg
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,789
    Likes Received:
    7,008
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I've never used a test solution exactly because of this.
    The crispy duck sounds heavenly though :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    14,302
    Likes Received:
    8,226
    Trophy Points:
    298
    @Nicole T - My suggestion would be choose whichever meter you prefer, based on whatever you choose, and stick with that. Perennially comparing two near approximate measures (i.e. the +/-15% factor) is just developing an unhelpful frustration loop.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  8. Ceppo

    Ceppo Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Its all very disconcerting. I quite agree with you. Haven't got my head round all this variation yet.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Nicole T

    Nicole T Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    639
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm sticking with the GlucoRx-Q for now, for morning bloods at least. I might use the Tee2+ for before and after meal readings, where I'm more interested in how high the 2 hour spike is. I bought about 200 strips with it, so I need to use them up. I've also just ordered another Libre for the Christmas and New Year period. I think it makes sense to do one there.

    Cutting out drinking during the week, I was tempted by a bottle of Nosecco alcohol free Prosecco for £3.50 in Morrisons today, only to discover, on getting the thing home, there's over 50g of carbs in one bottle. Probably near ten times the amount of the real thing. So do I gift this to someone who needs to cut down on their drinking, or return it for a refund next time I go shopping?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Ceppo

    Ceppo Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Return it.....
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. finsit

    finsit Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    48
    If you are newly diagnosed with high a1c, you must fight using all your weapons like Dr. Bernstein says "it takes what it takes" to get to as close to normal as possible. I strongly advise to use Metformin till you do the lifestyle changes and have better insulin resistance that will take you few months (and losing belly fat if you have some). Once you are accustomed to the new diet and have got the numbers under 100 post/pre meal, you may then think of weaning it off but watching your reading carefully. Metformin has less side affects than high blood sugar.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. finsit

    finsit Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Goon, your stats are impressive, can you share a bit more of your one week diet plan please? Also what's your exercise routine?
     
  13. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    12,404
    Likes Received:
    18,807
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I eat as close to zero carb as possible, with extremely limited plant foods, so mostly meat, some fish, plenty of eggs and some dairy, although I’m trying to limit that. Usually 2 meals a day, sometimes just one, with as short an eating ‘window’ as possible. I didn’t start there. At first ate plenty of veggies alongside protein and added fats, but have gravitated towards carnivore as my arthritic joints prefer it.

    Exercise. Mostly walking and mostly long distance. When things are open, also swimming and some weights at the gym, but they’re both more sporadic.
     
  14. finsit

    finsit Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Thank :) I am just wondering how you get your essential vitamins if you are limiting your veggie intake unless you are taking supplements ?
     
  15. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    12,404
    Likes Received:
    18,807
    Trophy Points:
    298
    @zamalik I’m happy to answer your questions, but we’d be derailing this thread. Please start a new one and tag me in. Thanks.
     
  16. Smily_

    Smily_ · Newbie

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Good morning! I too faced the same problem as the GP prescribed me metformin three years ago, I said I will improve through life style change. After 3 weeks my fasting came down to 6 and he agreed to do through diet and lifestyle change.
    In the annual check up, my diabetes is normal including kidney function and all.
    But when I check at home it is around 7 in fasting and over 10/11 after meals.
    But I am feeling ok and I am very active, do yoga, go for walk and do my regular job and reading and writing.
    The Nurse at the GP says when your HbAC is normal- right 46 then no need to worry.
    We can improve without medication but needs to change the diet and lifestyle- disciplined ourselves.
     
  17. Andydragon

    Andydragon Type 2 (in remission!) · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,422
    Likes Received:
    3,233
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Blood meters can be quite inaccurate (15%)
    If hba1c < 42 then I’d say it’s working well and to not worry. But need to always remember diabetes will come back by reversing what you do

    above 42 and below 47 and being pre-diabetic range is Needing of action and obviously above that
     
  18. Nicole T

    Nicole T Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    639
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The healthcare system only really seems interested in your A1c these days. Keep it to 48 or below for T2 or 51 or below for T1 and they consider your condition 'well managed' and in no need of further action.

    We tend to see diabetes as black and white: either you have it or you don't. But it's a huge spectrum, and some people out there have A1c results more than double the 'managed' maximum. While short term very high sugar can be life threatening, for most of us, it's the cumulative effects of lower, but still excessive levels that are of concern. The A1c test is probably the best indicator of those levels.

    Reading around these forums, you'll always see 'lower is better' (provided you don't drop below 4mmol/L on medication or about 3.5 without) and so you're inclined to worry about fasting levels of 7 or so. I got a non-diabetic score of 39 on my last A1c test, typically getting mid 6's on a morning fasting blood. Higher if I used my Tee2+ rather than GlucoRx-Q. You ideally shouldn't be passing 10mmol/L at any time (US recommendation) or 8.5 excluding 2 hours after food (UK one.) But bear in mind that, on a completely random blood test, it takes a score of 11.1 or above to confirm diabetes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook