Promotion Issues

luceeloo · Sep 16, 2016

I think I need to vent more than anything.
I work in a male-dominated environment, and that has never been a problem. That said, my Manager is female and I have one other female colleague.
I've worked in the same industry for 16 years, and have been with this company for 6 years. I have an exemplary record with the company, never had any problems, and have always done my best.
There has never been much scope for progression, as it's the type of company that people stick with forever.
Anyway, my Manager is leaving the company in three weeks, and this is my first real chance of promotion. She's mentored me for a few years, I have the relevant experience for the job, and I have proven that I have the ability to do it.
A year ago a young lad joined the company and we do a similar role. He's never worked in the industry, but he's very good at talking the talk and making pals with senior management.
When my Manager's job became officially available, this guy made it known to our senior management that he would also like to apply for the role. Fair's fair, and competition is sometimes a good thing, but he's since tried to get me into trouble by implying I'm not doing my job (my manager knew better). Now today I learned that the people who make the decision about the promotion have been told by this lad that I have health issues, and need time for medical appointments, and this might affect my ability to do the job.
I have never taken a day off sick due to Diabetes. Diabetes has never impacted my ability to do the job. My medical appointments are always during my time, or I save up flexi time.
I have explained this, but I feel that this is very unfair to have my chances marred by such rubbish.

As I'm Type 2, I gather that I'm not covered by DDA... so I couldn't use that in my favour... what AM I covered by if anything?

Freema · Sep 16, 2016

luceeloo said:
I think I need to vent more than anything.
I work in a male-dominated environment, and that has never been a problem. That said, my Manager is female and I have one other female colleague.
I've worked in the same industry for 16 years, and have been with this company for 6 years. I have an exemplary record with the company, never had any problems, and have always done my best.
There has never been much scope for progression, as it's the type of company that people stick with forever.
Anyway, my Manager is leaving the company in three weeks, and this is my first real chance of promotion. She's mentored me for a few years, I have the relevant experience for the job, and I have proven that I have the ability to do it.
A year ago a young lad joined the company and we do a similar role. He's never worked in the industry, but he's very good at talking the talk and making pals with senior management.
When my Manager's job became officially available, this guy made it known to our senior management that he would also like to apply for the role. Fair's fair, and competition is sometimes a good thing, but he's since tried to get me into trouble by implying I'm not doing my job (my manager knew better). Now today I learned that the people who make the decision about the promotion have been told by this lad that I have health issues, and need time for medical appointments, and this might affect my ability to do the job.
I have never taken a day off sick due to Diabetes. Diabetes has never impacted my ability to do the job. My medical appointments are always during my time, or I save up flexi time.
I have explained this, but I feel that this is very unfair to have my chances marred by such rubbish.

As I'm Type 2, I gather that I'm not covered by DDA... so I couldn't use that in my favour... what AM I covered by if anything?

he is a an evil *******...

azure · Sep 16, 2016

@luceeloo If that's correct (and not just rumours, etc) then he's not playing fair at all. I'd be very annoyed too.

Could you copy your sickness records/absentee records and approach management yourself and say something like "I understand someone has been making false representations about my health. Here is my record."

Basically, don't let him get away with it! He must feel insecure to say such things. Act confident (even if you don't feel it) I've learnt myself that people who talk the talk seem to be popular, even if they're not as good. Step out there, correct the lies, and show them you can do the job successfully

bulkbiker · Sep 16, 2016

If that fails a strong dose of laxative in his coffee the correct amount of time before his interview? (only kidding..)

donnellysdogs · Sep 16, 2016

Love that bulkbiker!! Brilliant! Lol..

luceeloo · Sep 17, 2016

azure said:
@luceeloo If that's correct (and not just rumours, etc) then he's not playing fair at all. I'd be very annoyed too.

Could you copy your sickness records/absentee records and approach management yourself and say something like "I understand someone has been making false representations about my health. Here is my record."

Basically, don't let him get away with it! He must feel insecure to say such things. Act confident (even if you don't feel it) I've learnt myself that people who talk the talk seem to be popular, even if they're not as good. Step out there, correct the lies, and show them you can do the job successfully

It's definitely come from him. Basically, we both had an informal, pre-interview chat with one of the Senior Managers yesterday morning. He's a decent bloke who I get on well with, and he brought up all of my strengths and then negated it with the comment "but you do have your health problems, and you've needed time for medical appointments, so we have to take that into consideration". I did correct him there and then, and told him that my health is not an issue, and that I haven't used any work time for medical appointments. I know that it's come from "the lad"... I work in a small team, and there's just him, another female colleague and my line manager who know that I used flexi time recently for my annual review. My female colleague is on holiday, my line manager hasn't been involved in the process and wouldn't say anything anyway, which leaves the sneaky snake who had his informal chat right before I had mine. I suspect that snakey didn't realise that I took flexi for the appointment and thinks that I used the works time.

Getting my sickness record is a good idea - I think that I've taken about 4 days off in 6 years. (The snake has taken about 8 in 15 months). I was just so angry for the rest of the working day that I couldn't think straight, and couldn't think what the best thing to do was. But on Monday morning I shall set about righting this wrong officially and properly.

luceeloo · Sep 17, 2016

bulkbiker said:
If that fails a strong dose of laxative in his coffee the correct amount of time before his interview? (only kidding..)

That is actually a valid suggestions... he doesn't make coffee, it's beneath his position in life. So I'd have many opportunities to do this... lol !

luceeloo · Sep 17, 2016

Freema said:
he is a an evil *******...

He has entitlement issues. I call him a lad, but in all honesty he's about 27 but mentally about 18. He's the type who has got a young family, but is more interested in telling the world about his big weekends out drinking. He thinks that the world owes him a favour, and he'll cut anyone's throat to get it.
I used to think that he was just an immature prat, but these past few weeks have been really eye opening. The annoying thing is that our manager has seen it too, but she has no clout anymore because she's on her way out.

azure · Sep 17, 2016

@luceeloo That description....I can't say anything except I sympathise and have met one of those before. Utterly blind to their own faults and weaknesses.

Toughen your resolve, keep calm and stand firm. Play him at his own game if you need to.

Good luck

col101 · Sep 17, 2016

Hi @luceeloo sounds like this man is acting very badly and I'd hope any management worth their salt would see right through him so maybe it will work in your favour. A thought, ACAS are very good at providing advice on your legal rights and may be worth consulting. Also with dusting off home insurance policies and see if they provide legal advice should it come to it which I hope it doesn't. Good luck with it all hope you get the outcome you deserve.

Salvia · Sep 17, 2016

So sorry to see that you're going through this stress, particularly when it's a time that could be important to your future. Something I remember my mother used to call "all mouth and trousers"

There are a couple of things that spring to mind - first, you could point out that your annual review is just that - annual - as in, once a year! That's by no means excessive, even if you were taking works time off (which you're not). Also, if medical history & absence is to be used as one of the selection criteria, that judgment needs to be applied equally & fairly, so perhaps you could provide sickness details for the whole department (as in, all 3 of you, so you're not singling him out). If you can't access it, or alternatively, refer the interview panel to your current line manager, who will have the info. so they can compare. For the most part, though, I would try to concentrate on work performance, ability, skills, knowledge, customer care, target achievement, etc. rather than join him in personal attacks, coz you may end up being seen as a jealous, back-stabbing *****! Unfair, I know, coz he started it, but don't become like him, they won't appreciate or thank you for it, particularly if the panel is all male. (sorry gents, but that's life)
The trouble is, that some people make a career out of seeking out & pandering to the powerful people, and they can & frequently do, succeed and profit from it. But also, very often they don't. People are not always as stupid as others think they are. I know that often I had to be polite & courteous to someone, and listen to them rabbitting on, whilst quietly thinking to myself "what a pillock" Also, don't dismiss your current manager as having no clout because she is leaving. They're not likely to discuss such things with you, or your colleagues, and if she's any good, she will not want to be seen as favouring another woman, just because she's a woman. Same thing as a man favouring a male just because ....

Salvia · Sep 17, 2016

p.s. @luceeloo, Hope you will have calmed your temper and anxiety by Monday, so you can go back to work full of confidence and resolve. Smile sweetly, & don't let him see that he's got to you - would be fatal !

if all else fails, bulkbiker has a good plan .....

catapillar · Sep 17, 2016

I think it is worth looking carefully at whether type 2 falls under the equality act, and thus you are "disabled" and have a protected characteristic. So work would be discriminating on the basis of disability if they didn't give you the promotion because of hospital appointments - which it sounds like the manager has flat out said.

Whether type 2 is a disability for the purposes of he equality act is a grey area - are you on medication?

http://www.footanstey.com/bulletins/2697-is-type-2-diabetes-a-disability-under-the-equality-act-2010

Anyway, whether or not you actually are considered disabled for the purpose of the equality act, I would suggest it wouldn't hurt to mention the equality act in passing to HR etc because, as it's a grey area, it might make them think twice about giving any weight whatsoever to the "time off" for hospital appointments issue.

I'm at a loss as to what sort of manager would give any credence to gossip raised by someone else in competition for the job - surely it's just common sense that any information received in that sort of context should be taken with a barrow full of salt.

tim2000s · Sep 17, 2016

One of the things he that stands out from your comments is that you feel as though he is using dirty tricks again St you. You don't seem to like the idea that he is talking to senior management and getting to know them, so the decision might be based on favour and not just on merit.

Sadly that's how it works. While you should focus on your merit, what is your relationship like with the people who are making the decision? Have you tried to build a strong relationship with them and make friends with them?

If not. Why not? If both of you are equally qualified for the job, it's more than likely that is what it will co.e down to.

Freema · Sep 17, 2016

luceeloo said:
He has entitlement issues. I call him a lad, but in all honesty he's about 27 but mentally about 18. He's the type who has got a young family, but is more interested in telling the world about his big weekends out drinking. He thinks that the world owes him a favour, and he'll cut anyone's throat to get it.
I used to think that he was just an immature prat, but these past few weeks have been really eye opening. The annoying thing is that our manager has seen it too, but she has no clout anymore because she's on her way out.

maybe your manager is on her way out just because of him

AndBreathe · Sep 17, 2016

luceeloo said:
He has entitlement issues. I call him a lad, but in all honesty he's about 27 but mentally about 18. He's the type who has got a young family, but is more interested in telling the world about his big weekends out drinking. He thinks that the world owes him a favour, and he'll cut anyone's throat to get it.
I used to think that he was just an immature prat, but these past few weeks have been really eye opening. The annoying thing is that our manager has seen it too, but she has no clout anymore because she's on her way out.

If your by "on her way out" you mean your Manager has resigned in favour of another job she believes will be better for her, then she may have far more power right now than you think, in that she will not longer feel the same loyalty she did when she wasn't looking around, and no career axe to grind.

If, however, she is being managed out of her company role, then you may be right.

luceeloo · Sep 18, 2016

Salvia said:
So sorry to see that you're going through this stress, particularly when it's a time that could be important to your future. Something I remember my mother used to call "all mouth and trousers"

There are a couple of things that spring to mind - first, you could point out that your annual review is just that - annual - as in, once a year! That's by no means excessive, even if you were taking works time off (which you're not). Also, if medical history & absence is to be used as one of the selection criteria, that judgment needs to be applied equally & fairly, so perhaps you could provide sickness details for the whole department (as in, all 3 of you, so you're not singling him out). If you can't access it, or alternatively, refer the interview panel to your current line manager, who will have the info. so they can compare. For the most part, though, I would try to concentrate on work performance, ability, skills, knowledge, customer care, target achievement, etc. rather than join him in personal attacks, coz you may end up being seen as a jealous, back-stabbing *****! Unfair, I know, coz he started it, but don't become like him, they won't appreciate or thank you for it, particularly if the panel is all male. (sorry gents, but that's life)
The trouble is, that some people make a career out of seeking out & pandering to the powerful people, and they can & frequently do, succeed and profit from it. But also, very often they don't. People are not always as stupid as others think they are. I know that often I had to be polite & courteous to someone, and listen to them rabbitting on, whilst quietly thinking to myself "what a pillock" Also, don't dismiss your current manager as having no clout because she is leaving. They're not likely to discuss such things with you, or your colleagues, and if she's any good, she will not want to be seen as favouring another woman, just because she's a woman. Same thing as a man favouring a male just because ....

You've hit every nail upon every head there.
I'm not going to become like him - every time that there has been an issue this last week or so, I've had to grit my teeth, smile and just get on with it. I'm aware that being female in the engineering industry is not the same as being male in that industry. It can very much still be a boys club, and it's difficult for us women to progress on the same path.

The one thing that I keep focusing on is that if he did get the job, he is so under-experienced and under-qualified for it, that he couldn't actually do it. He's talked the talk with the big boys, he's got himself on their radar, but when it comes to the crunch he doesn't know enough about his own job yet to progress further... so if the worst came to the worst, I could just sit back, get the popcorn out and watch what would inevitably be a really interesting show.
I have since heard some interesting little titbit that the department manager (who makes the final decision) has openly questioned what this snake's purpose is, what he does during a day's work because his key perfomance indicators are showing that there's not a lot going on . This was from someone who knows nothing about the current situation, and with whom I haven't mentioned a word about what's going on.
So hopefully, there's a bit of doubt there!

Either way, I've had the weekend to cool off and I'm going back to work tomorrow with my best foot forward ... and all that.
If I don't get the job fairly, then maybe it's a sign that it's time to move in another direction.

Salvia · Sep 18, 2016

luceeloo said:
I have since heard some interesting little titbit that the department manager (who makes the final decision) has openly questioned what this snake's purpose is, what he does during a day's work because his key perfomance indicators are showing that there's not a lot going on . This was from someone who knows nothing about the current situation, and with whom I haven't mentioned a word about what's going on.
So hopefully, there's a bit of doubt there!

Hi @luceeloo, There you go! 'nuff said. But I know you're too intelligent to rely on this fully; anything can happen up to the interview date, and probably will.

Glad to see that you've regained your equilibrium and charm ready to face the challenges of another week at work.
Go get 'em girl

Promotion Issues

luceeloo

Well-Known Member

Freema

Expert

azure

Expert

bulkbiker

BANNED

donnellysdogs

Master

luceeloo

Well-Known Member

luceeloo

Well-Known Member

luceeloo

Well-Known Member

azure

Expert

col101

Well-Known Member

Salvia

Well-Known Member

Salvia

Well-Known Member

catapillar

Well-Known Member

tim2000s

Expert

Freema

Expert

AndBreathe

Master

luceeloo

Well-Known Member

Salvia

Well-Known Member

Promotion Issues

Well-Known Member

Expert

Expert

BANNED

Master

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Expert

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Expert

Expert

Master

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency